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Tidy House Morgan 1883-O - Is Toning Real?

Started by nemo656,

17 posts in this topic

nemo656

nemo656

Posted
Posted

I just picked up this Tidy House Morgan 1883-O Morgan from an Ebay seller I frequent. The photos in the auction only showed very slight tones. When I received it today I was blown away by the colors. Even my photos do not show what this thing looks like in hand. There is Blues, Greens, Purples depending on how you hold it to the light. Is this artificial toning? Either way I thought I would share the pics.

 

Enjoy

Jim

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143275.jpg.bdfc8ee880f3f113983c0277be526796.jpg

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

Posted
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The toning looks a bit ATish to me but in my experience that's quite common on the tidy house morgan's even when they are NT due to how they toned in the holder so I wouldn't be too concerned with the overall look unless you wanted to submit to NGC and then it may or may not be an issue.

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LeoMS69-migration

LeoMS69-migration

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Hi:

Are you the seller on Ebay?

 

I am one of the bidders and I think you have a nice coin.

 

I collect toned Morgans and I don't think that this is an AT. The gold toning looks exactly as it should for old holder (acid/sulphur paper) toning. Depending on the method of AT (heat/acid/Electric current) ; it would be very difficult to get the Blues in that hue. Typically a natural rainbow would emanate or terminate from the rim and ;whlie an AT be a lot darker and more uniform. I know you can play with the lighting and photography to change the color saturation but your pic looks real good. Also Natural toning only goes 1 layer and no more than 2 layers deep. under high mag 20X-40X you can see the type of surface damage done especially if sulphur and acid is used. Heat and Electric AT's are harder to tell and PCGS does a spectral analysis to determine the % changes in the base atoms of the Planchet. Usually if not 100% an Electric AT or heat AT will lose all mint luster and the cartwheel is gone. I see in the pic some original luster but you can definetly check that with the coin in hand.

 

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

Posted
Posted
Hi:

Are you the seller on Ebay?

 

I am one of the bidders and I think you have a nice coin.

 

I collect toned Morgans and I don't think that this is an AT. The gold toning looks exactly as it should for old holder (acid/sulphur paper) toning. Depending on the method of AT (heat/acid/Electric current) ; it would be very difficult to get the Blues in that hue. Typically a natural rainbow would emanate or terminate from the rim and ;whlie an AT be a lot darker and more uniform. I know you can play with the lighting and photography to change the color saturation but your pic looks real good. Also Natural toning only goes 1 layer and no more than 2 layers deep. under high mag 20X-40X you can see the type of surface damage done especially if sulphur and acid is used. Heat and Electric AT's are harder to tell and PCGS does a spectral analysis to determine the % changes in the base atoms of the Planchet. Usually if not 100% an Electric AT or heat AT will lose all mint luster and the cartwheel is gone. I see in the pic some original luster but you can definetly check that with the coin in hand.

 

 

I was not the seller....I simply inferred that the colors and patterns aren't typical of what I see on naturally toned Morgans but to be more specific I think the colors are typical of what I see on NT tidy house Morgan's due to the long term storage in cardboard which has a high concentration of sulfur then say a paper roll or bank bag.

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nemo656

nemo656

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Thanks for the comments. LeoMS69 I was the buyer of this one. Now my dilemma is one, how to store this, and two would it be worth sending to NGC or better to keep it with the Tidy House thing. I already have an NGC MS64 1883-O in my collection I just bought this one because I liked the way it looked. In hand this coin looks amazing. My guess it's most likely a MS-63 maybe a 64. The obverse looks like scratches across her face but they are not. They are just lines in the toning. - Jim

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mtnstyne

mtnstyne

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I have a few of these and looked at a lot more. I would say the toning is natural, but I would have my doubts if it is natural to the Tidy House Holder. Maybe the coin was put in already toned?

 

Either way it's a nice looking coin, wish I had noticed it on eBay :devil:

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$ilverHawk

$ilverHawk

Posted
Posted
Hi:

Are you the seller on Ebay?

 

I am one of the bidders and I think you have a nice coin.

 

I collect toned Morgans and I don't think that this is an AT. The gold toning looks exactly as it should for old holder (acid/sulphur paper) toning. Depending on the method of AT (heat/acid/Electric current) ; it would be very difficult to get the Blues in that hue. Typically a natural rainbow would emanate or terminate from the rim and ;whlie an AT be a lot darker and more uniform. I know you can play with the lighting and photography to change the color saturation but your pic looks real good. Also Natural toning only goes 1 layer and no more than 2 layers deep. under high mag 20X-40X you can see the type of surface damage done especially if sulphur and acid is used. Heat and Electric AT's are harder to tell and PCGS does a spectral analysis to determine the % changes in the base atoms of the Planchet. Usually if not 100% an Electric AT or heat AT will lose all mint luster and the cartwheel is gone. I see in the pic some original luster but you can definetly check that with the coin in hand.

 

LeoMS69,

 

First, welcome to the NGC forums.

 

Second, if you are referring to PCGS Secure, PCGS does a laser scan of the surface of the coin and then may perform a metallic composition analysis. The metallic composition analysis does not determine "%changes in the base atoms of the Planchet." The metallic composition analysis determines the composition of the surface of the coin. ie. are there oxides, sulfides or any other chemical reaction residue present that would indicate tampering.

 

The OPs coin looks like a nice Tidy Bowl Morgan that acquired it's color in a high sulfide environment.

 

As to whether a Tidy Bowl card is a "natural" environment---that's open to discussion. Personally, I like the results.

 

Carl

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Carl

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Raisethis2

Raisethis2

Posted
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Regarding OP's questions.

 

1. I'd remove the coin from the card carefully but keep the card for your records. If you send it to NGC or PCGS there's no way you can "get the word" to the grading room that this was a TidyHouse coin. They remove any "notes" that may influence the Graders is my understanding. You must trust that their experience draws them to that conclusion. I would however, send the coin.

 

2. I too have seen TidyHouse coins toned and I think it's unusual be acceptable toning.

 

3. I'm an advocate of removing beautiful toned coins from the environment that got them that way because if you put it away for 20 years it may get dark and overcooked like so many mint set coins have gotten.

 

4. Welcome to the boards LeoM69. You're knowledge and experience lends a new voice to the mix which is always a good thing.

 

 

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