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Zboyle04's Prooflike Coins

Started by physics-fan3.14,

23 posts in this topic

physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted

Zach recently submitted a bunch of coins to NGC for grading, and was somewhat disappointed by the results he got. He sent the coins to me for my opinions, and I snapped a few quick shots. Here for your consideration are the coins he sent me - go ahead and guess the grades and the designations you think they deserve based on my pictures. After a while, I'll give my opinions (I will tell you that the photo's are all fairly accurate compared to how the coins look in hand).

 

IMG_1010_zps27af10c7.jpg

IMG_1019_zps00e4d8a1.jpg

IMG_1021_zpsf8efe24b.jpg

IMG_1030_zpscec5de74.jpg

IMG_1035_zps29d15ebc.jpg

IMG_1043_zps7b638ba5.jpg

IMG_1047_zpsa06b80a1.jpg

IMG_1054_zpse483dc59.jpg

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jerseycat10

jerseycat10

Posted
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Holy die polish. I'm no expert with regards to PL, but I believe the WLH missed because, at the very least, the sun. The reverse appears to kill the Franklin.

 

I am surprised the neither of the Jeffersons got a PL.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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My guess is that the first coin (1942-S nickel) was designated PL. If I had to choose a second most likely candidate, I would guess it was the last coin (1949-s half dollar). Regardless, that is an impressive looking group.

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Raisethis2

Raisethis2

Posted
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Ok, let me be the 1st to put numbers on things.

 

1942 S nickel MS 64 (no PL)

1943 S nickel MS 64 (no PL, but close)

1943 S walker MS 65

1949 S Franklin MS 65 (no FBL) (this one may be PL)

 

 

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wdrob

wdrob

Posted
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1942 S nickel MS 65 64 (no PL but maybe a star)

1943 S nickel MS 65 (no PL)

1943 S walker MS 64

1949 S Franklin MS 65 (this one may be a star also)

 

 

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nk1nk

nk1nk

Posted
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I followed the other thread so I won't comment too much. I would say, it was smart to have a second opinion and hats off to Jason for helping you out, I am anxious to hear his opinions. Those Jeff's look pl to me.

 

Nick

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zboyle04

zboyle04

Posted
Posted
I'd call all of those highly PL (especially the '49-S)(and the walker is a little less so).

 

Wasn't there a '69-D in the group as well?

 

 

i didn't send him all of the coins, i sent him these 4, i could not fit all of them in envelope :(

 

the rest of group includes the 69-d kennedy, 2x 59-p franklins and a weird quarter, i think it was 1957-p type 2 reverse. the quarter is least PL of the group

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djdilliodon

djdilliodon

Posted
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The 42 S Jefferson is a fantastic coin IMO. Super clean and the obverse IMO is a lock PL but the reverse holds it back. I'd grade it a 66 maybe even a 66+!

 

The 43 S Jefferson is nice too but IMO it falls short of PL on both sides. I'd call it semi proof like at best and would grade it a high end 64 shot 65.

 

The 43 S Walker IMO is semi PL only and I'd grade it a 64.

 

The 49 s Franklin IMO is stupid close to PL. That is a wonderful coin and wouldn't be shocked if they gave it the star. Easy MS 65 but no FBL.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

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Alright, time for my in-hand thoughts:

 

1942S 5c - NGC MS-66* - This coin is easily prooflike. While the reverse is weaker than the obverse, there are clear mirrors of sufficient depth on both sides to earn the designation in my opinion. The obverse in particular is stunning. There is heavy die polish on both sides, but that is characteristic of mid-20th century PL coins.

 

1943S 5c - NGC MS-65 - This coin is a little trickier. The coin is clearly deserving of a star at least, but it falls just short of being fully PL I think. The obverse, again, is the stronger of the sides, but the mirrors on the reverse are just not full enough for the designation in my opinion. The die polish on this one is heavier than on the 42S, but the strike is full and crisp. It is a very attractive coin, but I don't think it quite makes the PL designation. Interesting side note - the obverse displays a decent doubled die. Without further study (which I will let Zach conduct), I am not sure which DDO it is (there are 13 listed by CONECA).

 

1943S 50c - NGC MS-64 - I think NGC got it right on this one. I could see the argument being made for a star, but it is not nearly reflective enough for PL. Comparing it in hand to my own two star graded Walkers, the present coin clearly lacks the reflectivity required. That being said, it is still a very attractive semi-prooflike coin (which, in itself, is extremely rare for the Walker series). There are a couple of patches on the reverse which are fully prooflike (in between the eagle's legs, for example) and they give a hint of what this coin could have been. Overall, a special coin for sure, but not PL. This coin also displays a WHO DDO (Working Hub Doubled Die Obverse). There are three listed by CONECA, and I will leave it to Zach to determine which of the three it is.

 

1949S 50C - NGC MS-65* - Again, I think NGC got it right on this one, but this is the trickiest of the group.The coin clearly displays strong prooflike tendencies, but I think the reverse does not have sufficiently deep mirrors for a prooflike designation. This one is really close to being PL, though, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it designated as such. Again, it is characterised by the excessive die polish these coins are known for. I believe there were at least 3 die pairs used to strike PL Franklins at San Fran in 1949. I would like to do a thorough study of more of these coins (I've only had the chance to really evaluate 4 or 5 of them in hand), but the die polish lines on the present coin match what I have recorded for a previous example I've studied (and do not match either of the 2 that I have owned). Without further study, I'm not sure if this is because the dies were repolished more than once, or if they are actually different dies. The mirrors on the present die do not seem to have ever been as full as what I call Die Pair 1 (my present coin) - which has very deep mirrors and some cameo contrast. The strike on this coin, as some have mentioned, does not approach FBL status, although the coin appears to be a somewhat early die state.

 

I hope this is all useful information, and I really appreciate Zach giving me the chance to study these coins. I've enjoyed it (and if anyone else has any PL coins they want to let me look at, I'm always happy to study some prooflikes).

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JIM F.

JIM F.

Posted
Posted

They are all great coins. For those who have not seen my PL Franklin (or reminding those who have). Here it is for reference. BTW, purchased from a forum member. Thanks for looking.

 

1949_franklin_prooflike_obv.jpg

 

1949_franklin_prooflike_obvbig.jpg

 

1949_franklin_prooflike_rev.jpg

 

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zboyle04

zboyle04

Posted
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the ngc review is complete, i think they were fair in honest in their review, the following were changed:

 

49-s franklin 50c MS65PL

43-s walker 50c MS64* star

43-s jefferson 5c MS65* star

42-s jefferson 5c MS66PL

 

 

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
  • Author
Posted
the ngc review is complete, i think they were fair in honest in their review, the following were changed:

 

49-s franklin 50c MS65PL

43-s walker 50c MS64* star

43-s jefferson 5c MS65* star

42-s jefferson 5c MS66PL

 

 

I am glad that NGC agreed with my opinions - and I'm pleased to see that I got 4 out of 4 correct. Congrats on the upgrades, the coins deserved them.

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nk1nk

nk1nk

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Posted
the ngc review is complete, i think they were fair in honest in their review, the following were changed:

 

49-s franklin 50c MS65PL

43-s walker 50c MS64* star

43-s jefferson 5c MS65* star

42-s jefferson 5c MS66PL

 

 

This is very interesting, I had a hunch a review would go in your favor. I really think type coins that rarely come pl don't get noticed in the grading room but obviously is being looked for in a review. It sucks because a designation review is pricey. Don't over look non designated pl type coins.

 

Nick

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
the ngc review is complete, i think they were fair in honest in their review, the following were changed:

 

49-s franklin 50c MS65PL

43-s walker 50c MS64* star

43-s jefferson 5c MS65* star

42-s jefferson 5c MS66PL

 

 

Congratulations!

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