• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

NGC coins break $1M at auction

Started by Tradedollarnut,

31 posts in this topic

crypto79-migration

crypto79-migration

Posted
Posted

While it makes for fine marketing, how much of those coins value can be attributed to their specific holders? What is the chance they will stay in said holder if a competing company agrees to cross at grade? One grade lower? Require a Sticker?

 

I feel there are collector coins and then there are connoisseur coins, only the first is majorly affected by its relationship to its opinionated holder, the later can be influenced but is more senseative to the upper market's consensus than the veichal it arrives to market in. Those are both clearly in the later group and would have brought nearly as much raw and potentially more in other combos but the spread as a % is much tighter than say your avg MS64 RB 09s VDB where a few bidders would be inclined to wait for one in the right combonation to fit their collection or registry and save the hassle/game of crossing/grading/stickering

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Administrator
Scott_Schechter

Scott_Schechter

Posted
  • Administrator
Posted
While it makes for fine marketing, how much of those coins value can be attributed to their specific holders?

 

The answer to this question is really important and quite different than you think. The specific holders are a big deal.

 

Keep in mind that there are very few people in the world -- maybe 10 -- who can look at a raw 1796 dollar and understand that it's a gem MS65. Before this coin was graded, nobody ever had seen one that was graded close to this. Likewise, there aren't many people who can look at a Humbert $10 and "nail it" as an MS68 when the next finest is an MS62 worth 1/20th the price! Some time before this coin was sold, I was directed to a thread that began, "I can't even comprehend this grade." (I'm paraphrasing).

 

Yes, these are two incredible coins and obviously they are immensely valuable. But what makes them million dollar coins? They sold for over a million dollar each because NGC was uniquely equipped to recognize their exceptional attributes when they were certified. Buyers, in turn, respect and trust NGC's assessment. This made them confident enough to pay record prices.

 

In that way, these coins illustrate precisely what NGC does better than anybody and that's what this ad is about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
crypto79-migration

crypto79-migration

Posted
Posted
While it makes for fine marketing, how much of those coins value can be attributed to their specific holders?

 

The answer to this question is really important and quite different than you think. The specific holders are a big deal.

 

Keep in mind that there are very few people in the world -- maybe 10 -- who can look at a raw 1796 dollar and understand that it's a gem MS65. Before this coin was graded, nobody ever had seen one that was graded close to this. Likewise, there aren't many people who can look at a Humbert $10 and "nail it" as an MS68 when the next finest is an MS62 worth 1/20th the price! Some time before this coin was sold, I was directed to a thread that began, "I can't even comprehend this grade." (I'm paraphrasing).

 

Yes, these are two incredible coins and obviously they are immensely valuable. But what makes them million dollar coins? They sold for over a million dollar each because NGC was uniquely equipped to recognize their exceptional attributes when they were certified. Buyers, in turn, respect and trust NGC's assessment. This made them confident enough to pay record prices.

 

 

 

In that way, these coins illustrate precisely what NGC does better than anybody and that's what this ad is about.

 

I still maintain the ad implys a larger share of credit for the realization of special results. In the current market two jewels like that are exactly what the top players are after with their "best by multiple grades finest known" ( a real condition rarity) of popular types that combines collector intrest, natural beauty, absolute rarity with high end fresh provenances. Those are all stars that come to market only so often and congrats to NGC for the Newman collection but let's not act like that auction wouldn't have brought record prices independent of the packaging.

 

The people who brought that Humbert know its the finest known and ms 67-68 doesn't really matter, what it really says on the slab is number 1 by a mile (former Newman). I would wager all but a small fraction of the already small pool of potential buyers on earth could make that assessment themselves or with their representative and went throught the analysis anyway despite the plastic, as they would have no matter pcgs or whatever.

 

The dollar might be the finest looking and technically preserved for its slot in the poplar highend blood sport of bust dollar (by marrige) collecting that is championed by the highest end of dealers. Those types aren't exsactly slab monekies either and more than have the chops to zero in on that gem. Although maybe a couple of the way-under bidders might have been slab dependant type collectors.

 

They coins speak for themselves, it just looked like NGC tried to inject itself into a conversation unnecessarily. I didn't mean to side track the conversation away from stepping back and enjoying a couple of killer coins that the hobby might not see again for awhile.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raisethis2

Raisethis2

Posted
Posted

I think the purchase of a "power" coin like these two requires an obviously high level of confidence by the party spending the money. I'd imagine that one of 2 things happened. Either the purchaser is a coin expert in which case the coins could have been in 2X2 flips and it wouldn't have mattered, or......more likely, the purchaser agreed with the assigned grades by NGC and did his/her homework.

 

At this point the only value in a cross over IMO would be an upgrade. A straight cross would only confirm NGC's findings regarding the coins. They put their reputation on the line. To have a peer confirm your findings would just ad value to the mix if the coins ever went to market again.

 

Since nobody in their right mind would spend the money buying the coins, then cross for a downgrade, NGC should be commended for properly grading and slabbing two of the more important coins in numismatic history.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
crypto79-migration

crypto79-migration

Posted
Posted

 

Since nobody in their right mind would spend the money buying the coins, then cross for a downgrade, NGC should be commended for properly grading and slabbing two of the more important coins in numismatic history.

 

 

That's a bold statement you made there on a few different levels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tradedollarnut

Tradedollarnut

Posted
  • Author
Posted

 

Since nobody in their right mind would spend the money buying the coins, then cross for a downgrade, NGC should be commended for properly grading and slabbing two of the more important coins in numismatic history.

 

 

That's a bold statement you made there on a few different levels.

 

Oh, it happens. I spent $1.25M on a coin onetime and downgrade crossed it - and $1.3M another time and did the same. What matters to me is twofold - what grade do I personally assign to the coin and has it been doctored at all. I can say one example is the ex Cardinal 1794 dollar in MS64 (the one he owned prior to the specimen). I never liked it at that grade and neither did the marketplace. After downgrade crossing it, it looked nice for the grade and was well received when I later sold it for $1.5M

 

In this case, NGC got it exactly right. The dollar is a stone cold gem. Several dealers commented that it would look good in a 66 holder but I don't think it would have been so well received at that grade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tradedollarnut

Tradedollarnut

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The Humbert I viewed as well and I think the grade on the holder mattered less. I'm not sure I was comfortable with 68 but then again gold is not my specialty

Link to comment
Share on other sites
yonico

yonico

Posted
Posted
That dollar IS a star!

 

(worship)

 

It IS a star. And thanks for correcting (even though mis-quoting) me.

Of course the missing star on the holder makes no difference (and by the way I think it needs a star REGARDLESS of the toning, it's just a premium quality coin with extreme eye appeal).

I just hate it that the most common 1881-S or 1882-S Morgan's with the smallest splash of color (sometimes even if the color is not eye appealing), or 50's-60's proofs with a hint of cameo are eligible for a star, and this coin is not.

I would put 7 stars on this dollar's holder

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted

Awesome coin!!! :acclaim:

 

It has just made its appearance ATS. Now I'm sure that there are more than couple of them who are thinking, "Will it cross?" and "After it has crossed, will it CAC?" Until then it will still be a second class citizen. doh!

 

I hope that it stays in its NGC holder. (thumbs u

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raisethis2

Raisethis2

Posted
Posted

 

 

Like I said TDN, no one in their "right mind"..........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, just had to do it.

 

Seriously, if you ship a coin for crossover that crossed lower, I'm assuming it had to be commonly viewed as overgraded by many qualified graders who saw it?

 

Or do "power" coins like this fall on their own merits no matter the plastic? In this case the grade on the plastic is secondary to the buyers judgement.

 

I always wonder when I go to larger public auctions and see pretty rare collector coins (like a 1909 S V.B.D. Lincoln Cent in MS 65 in a Segs holder) as an example. Guys like me (limited grading skills) shy away from that holder thinking if it we're submitted to the big 2 it would come back AU.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
yonico

yonico

Posted
Posted

No one will spend $1M on a coin just trusting the plastic/label/sticker.

Whoever bought this coin is either an expert on the series, or hired an expert (experts..?) to examine the coin and evaluate it for what it is.

So I don't think (in this level of price/rarity) it matters if its in a pcgs or ngc slab

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing