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NGC vs. PCGS Value Guides

Started by Deerefan8420,

21 posts in this topic

Deerefan8420

Deerefan8420

Posted
Posted

While I was at the local shop today, I picked up a nice 2006-P Uncirculated Mint Set for $4. I took all the coins out of the packaging just to get a better look at them. Each and every coin is dang near flawless! Not a mark or scuff on them. I could see each coin grading MS67 or better.

 

Now my question is- Why is there such a huge difference in the Values between NGC graded coins and PCGS graded coins?

 

For example, NGC shows a 2006-P $1 Sacagawea dollar in MS68 at $62.50. PCGS shows the same coin in the same grade at $950.

 

Another example is a 2006-P Nebraska Quarter. At MS68, NGC shows $18.75. PCGS Shows $2150!

 

Another example is a 2006-P Lincoln Cent. At MS68RD, NGC shows $125. PCGS shows $2250.

 

I could list out all the price differences but I think I have made my point with these 3 examples. How can there be that much of a difference in the value of these coins between the two TPG's? I have not researched any recent auction histories yet but will do that soon. I just don't understand why there is a huge price swing. Is there more of a demand for PCGS slabbed coins in higher grades? Any help or explanations are greatly appreciated.

 

And BTW, If these coins could bring that much money in PCGS holders, I'll get these in the mailbox tomorrow!

 

Edited to correct spelling errors.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
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There are several factors:

 

(1) There are legitimate differences in the grading standards of certain series. Some series NGC grades more harshly, and PCGS grades others more harshly. PCGS also tends to market grade more than NGC (based on my observation), and this is also responsible for some of the differences in premiums seen. For ultra modern pieces, I do believe that in many cases PCGS is a bit stricter.

 

(2) PCGS does a good job at marketing their product, and their registry. This can lead to hype and higher premiums.

 

(3) You are relying on price guides. The PCGS Price Guide is notoriously high on moderns so the differences may not be as high as the guides may exist (although it is hard to deny that PCGS modern pieces bring premiums over their NGC counterparts).

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BillJones

BillJones

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Several points ...

 

I don't think that the coins you would get out of a 2006 Mint Set would be called "Mint State." I think that the grading services call them "specimens." Therefore you would get an "SP" grade, not a Mint State grade. Most everything that came out of the "specimen period" of Mint Sets is high grade.

 

Second PCGS modern coins bring higher prices than the same coins in NGC holders. This has been true for quite a few years. Why?

 

The first thing is the "more prestigious" PCGS registry. Collectors pay big bucks to be the top dog there. How big? Years ago the lemmings, and that is all I can call them, were willing to pay $40 grand (at a couple of FUN auctions) for a 1963 so-called PR-70 DCAM cent had "gone south" in the holder. The coin was worth $10 (with a tail wind) out of the holder. The lemmings did this twice. Ultimately PCGS bought the coin off the market. Why were these collectors ready to do this? For the top number of PCGS registry points for that coin.

 

The second thing is that PCGS is perceived as a more conservative grader in the modern coin area. There is some truth to this, but I think that the prices you have seen are blown out of proportion. I think that all of the very high prices you cited are too high, at least in my opinion, but then again, I'm not a player when it comes to modern coins. I have a long run of Proof sets and all of the modern commemorative coins in Proof, but that's about it. And most of those coins are raw.

 

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wdrob

wdrob

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One thing I have noticed about this and I don't think it was mentioned (I may have overlooked) but did you notice what the difference in population was for that particular coin with that particular grading service?

 

What I find more often than not is that if NGC has a lower value listed for a coin they also have a markedly higher population level graded in a NGC slab at that particular grade. Then if you look at PCGS and you see a huge difference you might find that the population of coins graded by PCGS at that level was miniscule in comparison to NGC.

 

 

 

 

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Deerefan8420

Deerefan8420

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You know, I didn't think of that Bill. That could be one reason why the prices are substantially higher in the PCGS value guide. I also agree with BillJones that the values in the PCGS guide are somewhat inflated due to the Registry "addicts" over on that side paying ridiculous prices in order to have the top spots in the Registry. I participate in the Registry here and I think it is a fun way to see how everyone's collections are coming along. Would it be nice if I had a couple of top spots in two or three registries? Of course it would. Am I going to spend moon money to get there? Highly unlikely.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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Several points ...

 

I don't think that the coins you would get out of a 2006 Mint Set would be called "Mint State." I think that the grading services call them "specimens." Therefore you would get an "SP" grade, not a Mint State grade. Most everything that came out of the "specimen period" of Mint Sets is high grade.

 

 

I didn't even catch this initially, but yes, the specimen strikes are also worth less in many grades. These are regularly sen at the higher end of the spectrum, where for some coins the finest known business strike is a 67 or 68.

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bsshog40

bsshog40

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Posted

I think Bill brings up good points concerning your question. I know that most times when I'm referencing prices to buy a coin, I will look at both value guides, search Ebay, and most times the NGC value guide is closer than PCGS. I have noticed a lot more lately that new collectors, as well as some old, seem to collect the slab instead of the coin. I know that what coins I do have in PCGS slabs in my registry were bought closer to NGC values than what PCGS listed them for. JMO, but I take PCGS values as much as I take Red Book values, with a grain of salt.

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

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For example, NGC shows a 2006-P $1 Sacagawea dollar in MS68 at $62.50. PCGS shows the same coin in the same grade at $950.

 

Another example is a 2006-P Nebraska Quarter. At MS68, NGC shows $18.75. PCGS Shows $2150!

 

Another example is a 2006-P Lincoln Cent. At MS68RD, NGC shows $125. PCGS shows $2250.

Based on that which company appears to be the one you want to give your business to? Which company appears to be the one everybody wants to give their business to? Which company appears to be the best? There's your explanation.

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Deerefan8420

Deerefan8420

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For example, NGC shows a 2006-P $1 Sacagawea dollar in MS68 at $62.50. PCGS shows the same coin in the same grade at $950.

 

Another example is a 2006-P Nebraska Quarter. At MS68, NGC shows $18.75. PCGS Shows $2150!

 

Another example is a 2006-P Lincoln Cent. At MS68RD, NGC shows $125. PCGS shows $2250.

Based on that which company appears to be the one you want to give your business to? Which company appears to be the one everybody wants to give their business to? Which company appears to be the best? There's your explanation.

 

Based on all the opinions that I've received so far in this thread and from other articles I've read, I would choose to have my coins graded and slabbed by NGC. I think their grading standards are a bit better than PCGS(this is my opinion based on coins with the same grades in my personal collection and does not reflect coins or opinions from other collectors) and I think the values in the NGC value guide are closer to the actual prices realized for coins in higher grades.

 

But my main question was why there was such a huge difference in coin values between the two TPG's.

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

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It's less a reflection of their market than it is their marketing. You know, their ad men? You want to collect coins, stick with NGC.

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rrwwss49

rrwwss49

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Greetings, I'm new to the board and fairly new to collecting. I recently purchased the 2011 5 SAE 25th anniversary set, and one of the US Mint capsules was damaged during shipment (on the outer rim edge). Luckily, no visible damage to the coin.

 

When coins are submitted for grading (to either PCGS or NGC), are the coin capsules removed and discarded by the grading service. Not sure if the coins can be submitted to the third party graders within the coin capsules, or if I am supposed to remove them first. I have about 50 SAE proofs, but only a few PCGS/NGC graded ones, those were previously graded at the time of purchase.

 

Any guidance you can provide would be greatly appreciated..

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Deerefan8420

Deerefan8420

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Coins can be submitted to NGC in Original Government Packaging and NGC will remove them from their holders and for an extra fee, they will return the Original Government Packaging to you. All that info can be found on their site, ngccoin.com, under the Grading Services tab.

 

It's less a reflection of their market than it is their marketing. You know, their ad men? You want to collect coins, stick with NGC.

 

All the coins I submit for grading go to NGC. But if I could find raw, high grade Mint State Business Strikes and sell them in PCGS slabs for that kind of money, I would probably do it. Then again, a coin is only worth as much as a collector is willing to pay for it, no matter what the value guides say.

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

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Just to say their price guide is more wishful thinking than anything. It's just the result of their marketing. If you examine their marketing style, it's kind of crude. Maybe "obvious" would be the better adjective. Their forums are open to all except those who think outside their marketing strategy. The legitimacy of their price guides are reinforced through their weekly market updates. Their registry sets are closed to their coins, only, if that's your bag. They got it going, and it's working for them. Why not take advantage of their fans the same way they've been dong when it comes time to sell? I agree with you, there. Nobody here is going to pay you those prices, though. At least, I'd think not.

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bsshog40

bsshog40

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I agree with your statement there kurtdog, "why not take advantage of thier fans". The PCGS finatics will mostly be the only ones that pay these extreme prices for thier slabs. The normal collector will shop for the best coin they want, for the best price they can get it at, regardless of the plastic its in.

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mtnstyne

mtnstyne

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I agree with your statement there kurtdog, "why not take advantage of thier fans". The PCGS finatics will mostly be the only ones that pay these extreme prices for thier slabs. The normal collector will shop for the best coin they want, for the best price they can get it at, regardless of the plastic its in.

 

Or raw for that matter...PF69 or PF70. Crack them out of the slabs and no one can tell them apart.

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jom

jom

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Based on all the opinions that I've received so far in this thread and from other articles I've read, I would choose to have my coins graded and slabbed by NGC. I think their grading standards are a bit better than PCGS...

 

I'm curious. How to you define "better"?

 

jom

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Deerefan8420

Deerefan8420

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Maybe the word "better" wasn't the proper word to use to convey the meaning of my statement. I think NGC tends to grade coins more on the conservative side, whereas PCGS tends to be a little more liberal in their grading. This is my opinion only and I am basing my opinion from comparisons of both PCGS and NGC graded coins in my collection.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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I agree with your statement there kurtdog, "why not take advantage of thier fans". The PCGS finatics will mostly be the only ones that pay these extreme prices for thier slabs. The normal collector will shop for the best coin they want, for the best price they can get it at, regardless of the plastic its in.

 

Or raw for that matter...PF69 or PF70. Crack them out of the slabs and no one can tell them apart.

 

Some could, but admittedly not that many. The key is to look for breaks in frost. This is usually what will result in a 69 grade rather than a 70. To me, the difference isn't that meaningful.

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michael

michael

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But my main question was why there was such a huge difference in coin values between the two TPG's.

 

there are 4 answers all correct to this important question

 

 

1---- DEMAND

2----- DEMAND

3------DEMAND

4------DEMAND

 

NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

my unsolicited advices is to COLLECT what you love with discretionary income and hold a long time and i think you will do okie

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

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But my main question was why there was such a huge difference in coin values between the two TPG's.

It has nothing to do with the coins. The melt value of their plastic is just greater.

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