If priced exactly the same... Which example would you rather have?

[BROADSTRUCK]

If priced exactly the same which example of this Early American token would you rather have top ~or~ bottom?

 

1829 Wolfe Spies & Clark, New York, Brass, 26mm, Rarity-6.

 

 

Thank in advance!

[illini420]

Bottom one. Just shows more original detail in the design. Has a more even/consistent color too.

[TonerGuy]

Bottom one...

[jpcienkus]

Bottom one. More detail and looks more "natural". The top one looks like it's been cleaned.

[Deerefan8420]

I would say neither one. They are both problem coins. The top one looks like it has been cleaned and had a hole that was poorly plugged. The bottom one looks looks a little better. It has some darker color but the hole is still very distracting. I would save my money and try to find one in better condition. But that's just my opinion. If you are limited on what you can spend, then I would say the bottom one would be the better choice.

[bsshog40]

Seeings how they are both damaged anyway, if I had to pick one, it would be the bottom as it shows more originality.

[Walkerfan]

Bottom one----it has more detail and a bit less damage.

[RWB]

Bottom

[brg5658]

I agree with the others, I like the amount of detail in the bottom one. I also like the dark somewhat "circulated cameo" look of the bottom one. I find tokens with history like this to be extremely attractive, despite the holes, scratches, gunk, etc. (thumbs u

[jerseycat10]

Bottom

[EXOJUNKIE]

The bottom one, clearly. (thumbs u

[messydesk]

Aye. Bottom one. More detailed and the only problem it has is that it's holed. The other one has less detail and is holed, sloppily repaired, cleaned, scratched.

[HCumberdale]

I agree with everyone else. (what a surprise!) for the color alone.

 

Even if the coin on top had more meat meat on it, I'd still choose the one with a more original color.

[World Colonial]

I answered before reading anyone else's response. So now i can go see whether I agree with the consensus or not.

 

I do not care for either, but I would prefer the second because the first looks "washed out" and has that big scratch right down the middle of the portrait. This despite that I do not like holed coins either but the coin looks more natual and has better detail to me.

[physics-fan3.14]

If priced exactly the same, and there was no chance at finding a problem free example, the bottom one clearly wins - no question. The first one has been cleaned, scratched, gouged, mistreated, has rim bumps, and probably more problems I can't see.

 

The bottom one has a hole in it, and is otherwise an attractive token.

[Catbert]

I'm with the consensus on this one. Bottom for all the reasons previously stated.

[Kenneth F]

Concur with most... the bottom one.

[SkyMan]

Wait for a better one.

[BROADSTRUCK]

Thanks everyone!

 

The upper example sold twice at Stack's in 2005 and 2008 for $345.00 & $391.00 with buyers premium. The description mentioned "This specimen is above average for the variety and deserves a place in an advanced cabinet." These are rare tokens in any grade and most are well worn, damaged, or show poor surface quality. In John Ford's sale it was mentioned "Many fine collections have gotten by with a holed Wolfe, Spies, and Clark; many others have done without this elusive issue entirely."

 

The lower example is one that I was just tracking in the CSNS auction to see what it would hammer? I was expecting it to go for around $425.00 plus buyer premium as most all of these with issues lately are selling just around the $500.00 figure. The exonumia auctions started quite late in the evening and I was expecting others to bid live, via proxy, fax, or mail. Watching the lot live when no one else bid I just had to purchase it and consider it one of the best buys in the auction as exonumia in general was strong. I will at some point upgrade should a issue free example come to market, but in the meantime owning this example as a representative of the type (filler) was IMHO wiser then money in the bank.

[Treashunt]

Agreed, the bottom one.

 

Both holed, but bottom one more detail, and no scratches

[messydesk]

The lower example is one that I was just tracking in the CSNS auction to see what it would hammer? I was expecting it to go for around $425.00 plus buyer premium as most all of these with issues lately are selling just around the $500.00 figure. The exonumia auctions started quite late in the evening and I was expecting others to bid live, via proxy, fax, or mail. Watching the lot live when no one else bid I just had to purchase it and consider it one of the best buys in the auction as exonumia in general was strong. I will at some point upgrade should a issue free example come to market, but in the meantime owning this example as a representative of the type (filler) was IMHO wiser then money in the bank.

I would say so, especially considering it cost less than a cab ride from the airport to the auction and back. Nice grab!

[Eric Hazen]

bottom

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

Well it arrived and I'm happy with it

 

Thanks everyone below are my pics.

 

[johnny9434]

Seeings how they are both damaged anyway, if I had to pick one, it would be the bottom as it shows more originality.

ill go along with this one (fwiw)

[Coagman]

Seeings how they are both damaged anyway, if I had to pick one, it would be the bottom as it shows more originality.

ill go along with this one (fwiw)

 

same here

[coinman1794]

Thanks everyone!

 

The upper example sold twice at Stack's in 2005 and 2008 for $345.00 & $391.00 with buyers premium. The description mentioned "This specimen is above average for the variety and deserves a place in an advanced cabinet." These are rare tokens in any grade and most are well worn, damaged, or show poor surface quality. In John Ford's sale it was mentioned "Many fine collections have gotten by with a holed Wolfe, Spies, and Clark; many others have done without this elusive issue entirely."

 

The lower example is one that I was just tracking in the CSNS auction to see what it would hammer? I was expecting it to go for around $425.00 plus buyer premium as most all of these with issues lately are selling just around the $500.00 figure. The exonumia auctions started quite late in the evening and I was expecting others to bid live, via proxy, fax, or mail. Watching the lot live when no one else bid I just had to purchase it and consider it one of the best buys in the auction as exonumia in general was strong. I will at some point upgrade should a issue free example come to market, but in the meantime owning this example as a representative of the type (filler) was IMHO wiser then money in the bank.

 

I'm surprised that this is even a question! The bottom example is a much higher grade and has much less damage. We are comparing a cleaned, scratched VG to a choice VF.

 

I am also surprised how much weight is being placed on the holes, which are very common on tokens and medals generally, and are of little concern on one of this rarity, specifically.

[BROADSTRUCK]

It's also in William S. Baker's 1885 "Medallic Portraits of Washington" as Baker-589.

 

George Fuld in his revision of Baker's book actually assigned a rarity rating of R-7 to this token.

[originalisbest]

No brainer choice. Neat piece!

[thecoinczar]

I would definitely go for the bottom coin as the detail of the devices is more defined and the color is more uniform. Now don't tell me that the one above is worth twice as much as the one on the bottom, because I think you are going to pull a whammy on us!

[joes2001]

I think the top one isn't so bad. If you could get that one a tad cheaper, get it (i know i'm not addressing your question though). The hole/damage isn't so distracting. The bottom one looks more original and has more detail, but then again there really isn't much detail in the figure to begin with.