MODERN COIN INSANITY posted by sky coins

[CSJournals-migration]

TO MY FELLOW COLLECTOR OF 1980D QUARTER

 

Idon't want to offend any collectors of modern coins, BUT my fellow collector who posted about the points and rarity of a 1980d wash quarter.Facts: Mintage 518,327,487. that is over 1/2 billion Redbook in ms-65-$6.I would have took the 230 something points and ran like hell and not to complaining about more points.That coin received as many points initially as my 1899 France 1 cent in ms-67 with a mintage of 1 million and no closer grade within 2 grades.I am sure a lot of collectors of none modern coins can give you plenty of examples of modern coin affluence toward the grading companies using ridiculous points on keeping you in the Game....just my 2 cents, thanks

 

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[Six Mile Rick]

And now it has "MORE POINTS". I gotta get one of those!!!

[Mohawk]

It's a sad day when a 1980-D Washington Quarter is worth as many points as an MS-67 1899 1 Centime. That's just baffling to me. I'm sorry, a coin with a mintage of 1/2 a billion that was included in very easily accessible and high mintage Uncirculated Coin sets should not rate the same as a legitimate scarcity. I know many people on here collect modern coins, both in the US category and on the World side of things, where I tend to live here on the Registry, and I'm not saying that there aren't legitimate modern rarities. There are, and they should be scored accordingly. But I highly doubt that the 1980-D Quarter is, or ever will be, one of them.

[Six Mile Rick]

It's not about the points at all. It's about collecting. Yes the points are off and always change just like the weather. I don't complain about the temperature outside in the morning but make the best of it for the day. I don't complain about the points for different coins but make the "best set for each year I can acquire".

My modern sets slowly grow sometimes from trades of early coins (pre 1965) for today's top pop coins. Although the population is guaranteed to change in the future it is nice to have the best low population "modern"coins while they are just that.

 

(Modern Coin Nut)

 

HAPPY COIN COLLECTING

[Mr Bo Jingles]

It isn't about the points, but it is about the points.

 

Collecting coins is a very solitary hobby for the most part. Being recognized among your peers is important. I get that and I agree with the frustration collectors are sharing.

 

Maybe there should be three sub categories within the Registry:

 

Pre-Civil War

 

Classic (post Civil War to "X" date)

 

Modern

 

Points assigned to each category would be multiplied by a specific "equalizer" to recognize the rarity of the era. Sort of a degree of difficulty bonus. Just thinking out loud.

 

As frustrated as we can get about this I am sure it is frustrating to NGC to come up with a Registry system that works for everybody. I will say this, they were very fast to act when I pointed out a points discrepancy. Max listened to what I had to say, researched it and made the change in less than 24 hours.

 

Maybe NGC would be willing to work with a "Collectors Counsel" or something to address the concerns of the community they serve. They are pretty approachable if you approach them the right way.

 

Happy Collecting!

[RichH]

Clearly the points are an imperfect science, but the points do matter as Mr Bo Jingles states. I mostly collect 19th century coins, but have one modern collecting interest, $5 Unc Gold Modern commemeratives. I wrote the registry about two months ago making the case that these coins were overvalued by at least 2X compared to my classic coin holdings when simply considering market price. They wrote me a nice email back, stating basically "no change made ,the registry considers multiple factors." Then to further mitigate matters about 2-3 weeks later I see that the Registry points for this series goes up +5,000 pts for my holdings , a +21% increase. Well, my dream coin is an AU55 or so graded 1795 Flowing Hair Half disme. Purchasing a nice example will easily cost $10,000 if you can find one, most likely closer to $15,000. The registry points are about 3,000 for this coin compared to over 29,000 points for my common modern gold having roughly about the same market value. That is a ridiculous multiple of 9X in this example. Included in my modern gold is the $10 Eagle Library of Congress with an reported issue of 6,683. This is still in my mind a very common coin, they mostly all are graded MS69 or MS70 and if you want one , they are readily available. By itself this coin has more points in MS70 than the AU 1795 Half dime. Please !!!! This is just one illustrative example, (my half dismes worth). RichH

[brg5658]

This topic has been discussed innumerable times here.

 

The take away messages have always been that the points are not assigned to represent rarity or "worth" across different realms. The scores can only be interpreted within the particular series set or type set where they are located. Your sets will be ranked where they should be within their particular category, but I don't see any logical reason why a complete set of France 1 centimes should have any relationship to a complete set of modern Washington quarters.

 

Any other method besides the current one makes the arbitrary assignment of points favor one type of collecting over another.

 

If you are in a "-ing match" between other people in the registry based on your "total points" across all of your sets, then all I can say is, get over it. There is no valid reason why the points should map directly to the amount of money a coin costs or across many different series. In the end, all of the Registry hem-and-hawing gets us no where. Collect what you like, and the rest will fall where it falls.

[Sinsilyo-migration]

Well said brg5658. This has always been my views as well.

 

But since I really don't care about "total points", Mr Bo Jingles ideas kinda makes sense for those people that do. to satisfy everyone I guess.

[RichH]

So if total registry points are not statistically equivalent due to point calculation "anomalies" between set categories why even show this ranking? I agree that the best way to measure your set(s) is by comparing to like sets, maybe the registry should leave it at that.

[brg5658]

So if total registry points are not statistically equivalent due to point calculation "anomalies" between set categories why even show this ranking? I agree that the best way to measure your set(s) is by comparing to like sets, maybe the registry should leave it at that.

 

That is a very good question. The PCGS Registry doesn't have this "schoolyard competition" complaining because they don't have an "overall" highest score by username. I wish NGC would get rid of the total score all together, as it serves no purpose. Furthermore, there are no awards given based on your total score, so it's truly irrelevant to the Registry, even if you're hyper-competitive.

 

I think everything else about NGC's registry is better than the PCGS one. The navigation, the web layout, the custom sets, the pictures, everything. The only thing I have never been able to figure out is why NGC even bothers with the "total Registry points" summation. It's completely meaningless.

[mtnstyne]

What the registry has done is made invaluable coins seem valuable to the novice collector.

 

In 20 years it will resemble the baseball card market and all those collectors who spent small fortunes on graded 1980's card collections that are now worth pennies on the dollar. The "luster" fades over time as new moderns are released for everyone to clammer over and spend their money on. Just my

 

 

[jayman1970]

No not completely meaningless,from a marketing view, it keeps the points chasers going for the top spot.They do this by buying more coins!

[Six Mile Rick]

I would guess that NGC does work with it's Dealer clientele and if the dealers send in the recent modern coins it would surely be easier to sell them if they had a very large point value base. Look at the SMS set coins as compared to the regular MS. First off the SMS coins can be obtained by simply cracking out a mint set. For the MS coins you need to search hundreds of coins in rolls to find a few. The dealers do not have time to search rolls and the points and values show there is no concern of sales for them.

JMO

[Texans Coins]

First, Rick, I appreciate you clearing up a lingering question for me. I had always wondered what the difference between MS and SMS was.

 

Second, I agree with what others have said. Only within a certain set, do points really matter. I've gotten over 10k points from my PF70 Presidential dollar set, but I wouldn't dream of putting that in the same ballpark as a 19th century gold set which may have similar points. I wanted a perfect set and this was one that was affordable for me.

 

Every collection is a great collection, because it is what the person wants and loves. The reasons behind what is collected definitely vary and there is nothing wrong with that. However, there are truly rare sets and I think that is where some people get hung up. 19th century gold is much harder to collect than First Spouse gold and I think people want the points to reflect that effort and expense. Unfortunately, there probably won't be any "please everyone" solution.

 

Just collect what you like, go for the top spot within that set and let the chips fall where they may.

 

 

Happy collecting, everyone!

 

Marcus

[Mohawk]

"Just collect what you like, go for the top spot within that set and let the chips fall where they may."

 

Very well said Marcus! Even though my earlier post expressed some bafflement and dismay, reading your post and the others has made me rethink my earlier view. As many of you know, I'm a World guy and my experience with Washington Quarters tends to consist of checking my change for silver or nice 1982 or 1983 coins to sell or trade and then putting them into my coin bank. For all I know, a 1980-D is super rare in ms-67, and it thusly earns the proper points in the context of its set. If people enjoy collecting Washingtons in ultra-grades and they earn a nice chunk of registry points doing it, good for them! We all have our interests, and I definitely apologize if my previous post was insulting to Modern collectors, or US Collectors or anyone else! We all have our varying interests and that's a big part of what makes this community so great!

[Mr Bo Jingles]

Let me echo what Mohawk said. I must come off as a bit of a coin collecting snob and that's not what I am about.

 

I do feel that NGC is missing out on an opportunity to recognize more of its top collectors. To have a top 50 set in just about every category is a pretty lofty accomplishment and represents a significant investment both in time and money.

 

It would show a lot of love by them and go a long way toward a happy customer base if they figured out something. Maybe a certificate, maybe a special banner, IDK. All I know is collectors do like recognition. If we didn't not one of us would probably have a Registry Set as we can easily make an inventory sheet for insurance in Excel.

 

May all your Easter Eggs be filled with gems!