1864 2 cent

[Dave1384]

Hello all.

I have this 1864 2 cent small motto. I have been told this is a problem coin. I thought it was just toning from old age. I realize it is not in it's original patina, but it does have some eye appeal . Someone has suggested olive oil to remove the dark color, but I hesitate. Will this grade and if not, why not ?

[mumu]

Anyone have a telescope?

[ldhair]

Welcome Dave. Sorry but we can't tell anything from that image.

[BillJones]

The 1864 Small Motto Two Cent Piece is a scarce coin, but it's not worth a huge amount of money in the circulated grades. Here is an example of the coin in nice circulated condition. I think that our hosts graded it AU-55 which would place its wholesale value at around $800. Motto on your coin should match up with the one on this piece if it is a Small Motto example.

 

 

Here is an 1864 Large Motto Two Cent Piece you can use as a comparison. This one is graded MS-65, Red.

 

[Conder101]

I would leave it alone, I don't think the dark color is hurting it and I'm afraid trying to lighten it runs more risks of damage than help.

 

I think if it grades it will detail grade. The problem isn't the color, it is all those rim nicks at the bottom of the reverse.

[bsshog40]

Hey Bill, it's kind of hard for me to slide up and down to each of your images to distinquish the differences. Can you tell what the actual difference is? I'm not seeing them. Thanks!

[jerseycat10]

Hey Bill, it's kind of hard for me to slide up and down to each of your images to distinquish the differences. Can you tell what the actual difference is? I'm not seeing them. Thanks!

 

Compare the height of the letters in 'In God We Trust' on both coins.

 

They are significantly taller on the Large Motto coin.

[BillJones]

Hey Bill, it's kind of hard for me to slide up and down to each of your images to distinquish the differences. Can you tell what the actual difference is? I'm not seeing them. Thanks!

 

Look at the word "IN GOD" in the motto, especially the "D." The Small Motto letters are, well, smaller.

[bsshog40]

Ok, I see it now. Thank you both. I have a "G" one at home and never really looked at it. I'll to check it out and see which one it is.

[BillJones]

Ok, I see it now. Thank you both. I have a "G" one at home and never really looked at it. I'll to check it out and see which one it is.

 

If you piece in Good has no motto left, check out the distance the scroll on which the motto is located from the edge of the coin. The scroll is closer to the rim on the Small Motto piece than it is on the Large Motto variety. That how you can attribute very low grade examples.

[bsshog40]

Thanks Bill!

[Dave1384]

See the new pic above.

[copper toning]

Hey Bill, it's kind of hard for me to slide up and down to each of your images to distinquish the differences. Can you tell what the actual difference is? I'm not seeing them. Thanks!

 

Look at the word "IN GOD" in the motto, especially the "D." The Small Motto letters are, well, smaller.

 

You can also look at the leaves which connect to the lower right of the scroll.

 

On the large motto all the leaves connect.

 

On the small motto only a single stem connects the leaves to the scroll.

[bsshog40]

Looks like mine is a large motto.

[Conder101]

Another good feature is the outermost leaf in the cluster below IN GOD. On the small motto it is very large and nearly touches the scroll. On the large motto it is very small and well away from the scroll. This is very clear even on low grade coins and can be used on coins where the motto is gone,

 

Another diagnostic not mentioned is the first T in TRUST. On the Small Motto the left foot of the T touches the fold in the ribbon. On the Large Motto it is well away from the fold.

[Dave1384]

Mine is the small motto. I've had one before and the lettering size in the motto is the giveaway. I'd still would like to know if this would grade without trouble.

[BillJones]

The pictures are too small to give a grade estimate, and what I presume to be the obverse picture is coming up as "the dreaded red X" on my browser. Still there appears to be a number of rim nicks at the bottom of the reverse which might prevent it from getting a straight, unqualified grade. One or two such marks might only lower the grade, but multiple rim marks can result in a "genuine" or "details" grade.

[Dave1384]

Try this.

[BillJones]

Given the state of surfaces, which are a bit grandular, and the rim nicks, I don't think that this coin will receive a clean, straight foward grade.

[Dave1384]

Perhaps this coin was dropped in the streets in the nineteenth century. Maybe stepped on by a horse, who knows. Nicks, to me, should be considered the same as worn surfaces. Well, I think it's history is interesting and it's a denomination so outdated as to be laughable. I wouldn't even consider sending it to PCGS, they'd only treat it like a grenade. Your opinion is similar to mine, but I am hoping for better with ANACS. Thank you.

[pianoman]

Hi Dave,

 

While I do not have an ANACS small motto here are pics of a 1864 MS-64 brown 2 cent graded by ANACS Large Motto that I own . Perhaps they might help when you look at your own coin as it is darker than the others kindly posted

 

Best of luck on getting your grade

[pianoman]

Sorry

I forgot to show you both sides my bad

[Dave1384]

Nice coin. Just sent mine in Friday, with a short, but hopefully persuasive note.