A prediction and some thoughts about some Cardinal coins coming up for auction

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

On the 1794 dollar the bidding went from five million five hundred thousand directly to 8.5 million without all the inbetween increments. And then, it stopped. Very strange.

 

Anyway, my prediction (or whatever you want to call it, Mr. Curliss), on the 1794 Dollar was off by about fifty percent.

 

I was very, very close on two coins, too low on the third and way too low on the last.

 

Looks like a new world record at 8.5 million plus the juice.

 

My prediction is now that the new owner of the 1794 will want to stay anonymous. I would too.

 

One "s" is plenty, please.

 

It is interesting to note, though, that my previous posted prediction concerning your predictions was 100% accurate.

 

I do like you though, I think. You at least appear to keep it all in perspective.

[therealanaconda-migration]

Gotcha. Funny that I watched almost all the lots before the 1794 Dollar and that kind of big jump (relatively speaking) didn't happen in any of those lots but please know............I am totally not an experienced auction buyer, so what might seem strange to me isn't obviously strange to Mark, and I know Mark has bought many coins at auction.

 

The jump was intended. Once we ascertained that we were up against the Pogues, the strategy was to ensure that we shock and awed them. As it turns out, the most we were high were one increment - and it's worth one increment to be the first to break $10M

 

You don't beat the Pogues by being nambie pambies

 

Well, I'm glad you knew what you were doing, because if the Pogues would have gotton the coin, I wouldn't be able to brag about knowing the guy who owns the most expensive coin in the world!

[$ilverHawk]

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. Very educational in very many ways. I am totally awestruck by the history exhibited in these coins.There is a question that I have.

 

The estimated population of the 1794 Dollar is 150 examples. NGC has graded 33 with 7 being graded as MS. 1 MS60, 2 MS61, 1 MS62, 1 MS64 and 2 MS65. PCGS has graded 90 with 5 being graded as MS. 1 MS62, 1 MS63, 1 MS64 and 2 MS66.

 

The question is, with such a limited population for grading comparisons how can a meaningful grade be assigned? Exactly what parameters are used by TPG s and/or any knowledgeable evaluator to determine if one of these coins are MS and then what numerical grade is appropriate?

 

My purpose in asking is that I am seriously considering purchasing some early Dollars and Half Dollars. I want to buy the coin and not the slab.

 

Any referral to published references is appreciated.

 

Carl

 

[MarkFeld]

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. Very educational in very many ways. I am totally awestruck by the history exhibited in these coins.There is a question that I have.

 

The estimated population of the 1794 Dollar is 150 examples. NGC has graded 33 with 7 being graded as MS. 1 MS60, 2 MS61, 1 MS62, 1 MS64 and 2 MS65. PCGS has graded 90 with 5 being graded as MS. 1 MS62, 1 MS63, 1 MS64 and 2 MS66.

 

The question is, with such a limited population for grading comparisons how can a meaningful grade be assigned? Exactly what parameters are used by TPG s and/or any knowledgeable evaluator to determine if one of these coins are MS and then what numerical grade is appropriate?

 

My purpose in asking is that I am seriously considering purchasing some early Dollars and Half Dollars. I want to buy the coin and not the slab.

 

Any referral to published references is appreciated.

 

Carl

 

Those are good questions, Carl.

 

Obviously, the more examples of a given type and date that you can examine, the better perspective you can get. That involves assessing the condition of the coin, including attributes such as strike, luster, state of the dies, etc.

 

Even in the case of (very low population) 1794 dollars, I am confident that the graders have seen enough different survivors to be able to assess which are deserving of mint state grades and how the finer ones compare to one another. Also, while the 1795 issue is different from the 1794, studying examples of the former can still help to understand the grading of the latter.

[World Colonial]

If the actual number is 150 (I have heard 130), I do not think that is really that limited. It is less or a lot less than most others, but there are still a relatively large number of coins with a likely smaller surviving population than 150 and definitely with less availability than this number.

[therealanaconda-migration]

Should Collectors flip over 10 million dollar coin sale?

[RockMyAmadeus]

.

 

Maybe it's just me, but when the most valuable US coin isn't an 1804 dollar or 1913 nickel, something's not quite right...

 

 

[MarkFeld]

.

 

Maybe it's just me, but when the most valuable US coin isn't an 1804 dollar or 1913 nickel, something's not quite right...

 

 

I beg to differ - I think that something IS quite right.

[comicdonna]

.

 

Maybe it's just me, but when the most valuable US coin isn't an 1804 dollar or 1913 nickel, something's not quite right...

 

Isn't the 1794 flowing hair like Action #1 in comics?

[jimjum12]

.

 

Maybe it's just me, but when the most valuable US coin isn't an 1804 dollar or 1913 nickel, something's not quite right...

 

 

I beg to differ - I think that something IS quite right.

 

The 1804 and the 1913 were both manufactured collectibles.....albeit legendary ones. It seems to me the sign of a healthy market that a fairly well represented variety fetches such a healthy price....but it is arguably the best. I realize this may sound foolish, but growing up seeing the bounty placed on 1804's on the back of comic books makes that my hands down # 2 choice. If I came into possession of the 1913....I would make immediate plans to sell....I might have to quietly retain the 1794 or 1804 for a short while. That's just me. The fact that the new owner of the 1794 posts on a message board that I frequent is something that I find amazing.....thanks TDN....your views and those of some of the other big leaguers means a great deal to me....what a wonderful hobby. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

P.S. The thread about what the next 10 million dollar coin will be (in the PCGS FORUM) has been great.

[mumu]

.

 

Maybe it's just me, but when the most valuable US coin isn't an 1804 dollar or 1913 nickel, something's not quite right...

 

 

Its a shame a 1913 Nickel would be the pinnacle of collecting because of some mint theft or mis-management. Give me history over shenanigans any day.

[therealanaconda-migration]

As far as the 1794 dollar being the most expensive coin sold and not the 1913 Liberty nickel nor the 1804 dollar, I think I would WAY rather have the 1794 dollar than the 1913 or 1804 coins.

 

The former owner, Martin Logies and the new owner's representative, Laura Sperber talk.

[Conder101]

I would agree, but I'd rather have one of the other MS ones than this one.

[therealanaconda-migration]

Why is that?

[Tradedollarnut]

I just spent a half hour in Stacks' offices viewing the coin when Laura and I were arranging shipment. It is clearly something very special. Absolutely love the life on the coin when held at anything other than the dead on angle. Extremely happy with the purchase!

[mumu]

No free shipping?

[MarkFeld]

I just spent a half hour in Stacks' offices viewing the coin when Laura and I were arranging shipment. It is clearly something very special. Absolutely love the life on the coin when held at anything other than the dead on angle. Extremely happy with the purchase!

 

Not surprising, but good to hear, nonetheless.

[Dave1384]

actually $8,525,000 so with premium first $10 million coin

 

congrats to new owner

 

I'm new here, but do read Numismatic News. I was under the impression that Legend PAID 10 million for this piece. They didn't. They paid 8.5 and a commission.

 

And if the previous owner paid 7.8,and paying Stacks a commission for selling it at the above amount, I fail to see where he profited here.

 

Point out my error.

[MarkFeld]

actually $8,525,000 so with premium first $10 million coin

 

congrats to new owner

 

I'm new here, but do read Numismatic News. I was under the impression that Legend PAID 10 million for this piece. They didn't. They paid 8.5 and a commission.

 

And if the previous owner paid 7.8,and paying Stacks a commission for selling it at the above amount, I fail to see where he profited here.

 

Point out my error.

 

Legend did, indeed, pay (slightly more than) $10,000,00. From the bidder's point of view, it doesn't matter whether they pay $10 million, with no buyer's premium, or, for example, $8 million, with a 25% buyer's premium. Either way, they are paying $10 million.

 

Also, the owner certainly received more than 100% of hammer on the sale - I would guess approximately 110%+, so he profited.

[Dave1384]

Thanks.

[bigmoose-migration]

It has been a while and the dust has settled, so to speak, on the Cardinal Collection Sale. I would like to offer a big congratulations to Martin and TDN/Laura. If you look at the auction coin by coin, you will notice some fantastic profits on individual coins. I was an active bidder on two coins in this sale and placed what I thought were extremely strong bids with a trusted agent. I promptly got my handed to me on both lots! I was able to buy the 1856 in 66RB from Laura Legend on the aftermarket, so I have something to remember this sale. Looking at a few individual coins, the 1837 N-7 in 67BN sold for $35250.00( it sold for $9775.00 at the Naftzger sale in Feb. 2009 ). The 1838 N-4 in 67BN sold for $35250.00( it sold for $6325.00 at Naftzger in Feb. 2009 ). The 1839 N-11, Booby Head in 66RB sold for $25850.00( it brought $10063.00 at Naftzger in Feb. 2009 ). Those are some very nice profits on individual coins! I believe this sale was promoted and advertised beautifully by Stacks/Bowers and attracted many high power bidders to this sale event. TomT.