NewP - How do you see it? Grade Revealed, In-Hand Pics Added

[FishyOne]

Recent pick up. What do you think our friends ATS said?

 

Grade revealed on page 2. Thanks for the comments!

 

In-Hand Pics added on Page 3

 

[BillJones]

What do you think our friends ATS said?

 

I think that they should have said VF-35 because the reverse is a bit weak for the EF-40 grade. They probably said EF-40. I like everything about the piece except for the "carbon spots" at 2:30 on the obverse.

[MarkFeld]

XF 40 and the spots bother me, as well.

 

 

[Coindude]

I might even stretch to 45 if it weren't for the spots, but I think those bring it down to 40.

[L1ncolnF4n]

I might even stretch to 45 if it weren't for the spots, but I think those bring it down to 40.

 

Seconded.

[MarkFeld]

I might even stretch to 45 if it weren't for the spots, but I think those bring it down to 40.

 

Seconded.

 

How do spots take an XF45 down to an XF40?

 

I could understand a downgrade on a Proof or mint state coin, but not an XF. An XF grade should be based almost entirely on wear and luster.

[L1ncolnF4n]

I might even stretch to 45 if it weren't for the spots, but I think those bring it down to 40.

 

Seconded.

 

How do spots take an XF45 down to an XF40?

 

I could understand a downgrade on a Proof or mint state coin, but not an XF. An XF grade should be based almost entirely on wear and luster.

 

Not detracting from the technical grade as much as eye appeal. You can't say that eye appeal doesn't factor in to a grade even at this level.

[johnny9434]

xf 40 with the carbon spots

[bsshog40]

XF 40 and the spots bother me, as well.

 

Agree

[coinman_23885]

I'm with the EF40 crowd. PCGS may have netgraded for the carbon spots (I have seen it done before).

[Walkerfan]

I'd never grade this above VF 35 for the amount of wear that it exhibits.

 

The spots are a little distracting but not too bad. I am more bothered by what looks like a fingerprint in the right facing obv. field.

[Coindude]

I might even stretch to 45 if it weren't for the spots, but I think those bring it down to 40.

Seconded.

How do spots take an XF45 down to an XF40?

 

I could understand a downgrade on a Proof or mint state coin, but not an XF. An XF grade should be based almost entirely on wear and luster.

Mark, I guess you could say it's just personal preference, in my minds eye with the spots I see it as a 40 and if they weren't there, my mind would have said 45.

 

I guess it's like the comments of... the luster just isn't good enough for a 67. Again, personal preference.

[physics-fan3.14]

I might even stretch to 45 if it weren't for the spots, but I think those bring it down to 40.

Seconded.

How do spots take an XF45 down to an XF40?

 

I could understand a downgrade on a Proof or mint state coin, but not an XF. An XF grade should be based almost entirely on wear and luster.

Mark, I guess you could say it's just personal preference, in my minds eye with the spots I see it as a 40 and if they weren't there, my mind would have said 45.

 

I guess it's like the comments of... the luster just isn't good enough for a 67. Again, personal preference.

 

No, Coindude, spots have no influence on circulated grades. That is pretty much standardized. The spots are definitely going to influence the value, but not the grade.

[Coindude]

I might even stretch to 45 if it weren't for the spots, but I think those bring it down to 40.

Seconded.

How do spots take an XF45 down to an XF40?

 

I could understand a downgrade on a Proof or mint state coin, but not an XF. An XF grade should be based almost entirely on wear and luster.

Mark, I guess you could say it's just personal preference, in my minds eye with the spots I see it as a 40 and if they weren't there, my mind would have said 45.

 

I guess it's like the comments of... the luster just isn't good enough for a 67. Again, personal preference.

No, Coindude, spots have no influence on circulated grades. That is pretty much standardized. The spots are definitely going to influence the value, but not the grade.

Jason, I totally agree with you that grades are not subjective to spots. But, the title does say, "How do YOU see it". I saw it as a 40 because of the spots. If the spots had not detracted from the eye appeal, I probably still would have said 45.

[physics-fan3.14]

Sam, you are still saying the spots affect the grade! You have to see past the spots. It can be an EF-40 worth $130 or worth $100, but if the level of wear indicates EF-40, then it is an EF-40. The spots do not change the grade - only the value.

[Coindude]

ok Jason... my wallet sees it as a 40!

[coinman_23885]

I might even stretch to 45 if it weren't for the spots, but I think those bring it down to 40.

Seconded.

How do spots take an XF45 down to an XF40?

 

I could understand a downgrade on a Proof or mint state coin, but not an XF. An XF grade should be based almost entirely on wear and luster.

Mark, I guess you could say it's just personal preference, in my minds eye with the spots I see it as a 40 and if they weren't there, my mind would have said 45.

 

I guess it's like the comments of... the luster just isn't good enough for a 67. Again, personal preference.

 

No, Coindude, spots have no influence on circulated grades. That is pretty much standardized. The spots are definitely going to influence the value, but not the grade.

 

While I agree with you Jason in everything that you have said, the OP didn't ask for the coin's technical grade per se, but he asked what we thought PCGS said. Although I may disagree with it at times (depending on the coin), I have seen PCGS net grade circulated coins for problems, spots, and yes, even excessive chatter. I think Sam is onto something.

 

I would give the coin a technical grade of EF40, and I would estimate it to be worth VF money. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in a VF PCGS holder.

[$ilverHawk]

I think PCGS graded it XF45. The Obverse spot is distracting. Still, technically a XF45. The Reverse is a classic XF45. The coin has a clear claim to XF45. Based purely on technical merits.

 

What I see most posts quibbling about is whether this coin is marketable as XF45. I believe it is. There are some collectors that will look purely at the technical merits of the coin and not be influenced by the carbon spot on the Obverse. That's how I believe PCGS graded it.

 

Would I buy this coin as an XF45, no. I find the Obverse carbon spot is too distracting for my taste and I believe I could find an equal example sans the carbon spot for XF45 money.

 

Carl

[FishyOne]

PCGS gave it an XF40 grade which I agree with. I don't have in hand yet and feel (hope) the spots won't look too bad without the 10X magnification of the original images.

 

It did sell for VF35 money ($99.99 delivered). This date is not expensive in circulated grades. Auction results average $100 in 35, $125 in 40, and $150 in 45.

 

eBay Auction Link

 

[newprepper]

You guys are pretty good

[MarkFeld]

I might even stretch to 45 if it weren't for the spots, but I think those bring it down to 40.

 

Seconded.

 

How do spots take an XF45 down to an XF40?

 

I could understand a downgrade on a Proof or mint state coin, but not an XF. An XF grade should be based almost entirely on wear and luster.

 

Not detracting from the technical grade as much as eye appeal. You can't say that eye appeal doesn't factor in to a grade even at this level.

 

Sure, I can. I don't think eye appeal does or should affect grades of obviously circulated coins

[L1ncolnF4n]

I might even stretch to 45 if it weren't for the spots, but I think those bring it down to 40.

 

Seconded.

 

How do spots take an XF45 down to an XF40?

 

I could understand a downgrade on a Proof or mint state coin, but not an XF. An XF grade should be based almost entirely on wear and luster.

 

Not detracting from the technical grade as much as eye appeal. You can't say that eye appeal doesn't factor in to a grade even at this level.

 

Sure, I can. I don't think eye appeal does or should affect grades of obviously circulated coins

 

You said yourself that an XF should be graded on luster as a factor, and spots certainly detract from luster?...

 

Either way, not trying to start a fight over grading policies and standards, just was offering my opinion.

[MarkFeld]

I might even stretch to 45 if it weren't for the spots, but I think those bring it down to 40.

 

Seconded.

 

How do spots take an XF45 down to an XF40?

 

I could understand a downgrade on a Proof or mint state coin, but not an XF. An XF grade should be based almost entirely on wear and luster.

 

Not detracting from the technical grade as much as eye appeal. You can't say that eye appeal doesn't factor in to a grade even at this level.

 

Sure, I can. I don't think eye appeal does or should affect grades of obviously circulated coins

 

You said yourself that an XF should be graded on luster as a factor, and spots certainly detract from luster?...

 

Either way, not trying to start a fight over grading policies and standards, just was offering my opinion.

 

I think you're grasping there, with the spots detracting from the luster and that being a reason to downgrade a circulated coin.

 

No fighting from me, here, just a strong difference of opinion.

[physics-fan3.14]

You said yourself that an XF should be graded on luster as a factor, and spots certainly detract from luster?...

 

Either way, not trying to start a fight over grading policies and standards, just was offering my opinion.

 

Luster is used as a factor on upper circulated coins because it is an indicator of wear. If there is no wear, I expect luster. If there is wear, especially in the fields, I expect the luster to be among the first indicators.

[BillJones]

For me luster is quite often the break point between EF-40 and EF-45. Many "real" EF-45 graded coins have a hint of luster in the protected areas within and sometimes between some of the letters. I don't see that on this coin.

[FishyOne]

The coin arrived today and I'm very pleased with it! There is some dark blue toning in the fields that I can't capture in these quick photos. No luster is present but she's a good XF40 to me.

 

[BillJones]

Yes, I'd say it's worth EF-40 money. The dark spots don't look as bad in your photo, but I still wish they were not there.