If you know how to grade; if you don’t know how to grade...

[Kurtdog]

If you know how to grade, you collect coins, and not slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers on coins; if you don’t know how to grade, you collect slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers on coins, and not coins.

 

If you know how to grade, coins are relevant, and slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers are irrelevant; if you don’t know how to grade, slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers are relevant, and coins are irrelevant.

 

If you know how to grade, you don’t collect third-party and fourth-party opinions and endorsements on grades, because you know what you’re doing; if you don’t know how to grade, you collect third-party and fourth-party opinions and endorsements on grades, because you don’t know what you’re doing.

 

I can go on, but how’s that for a quick summary?

[TomB]

I know how to grade very well, yet all the stars, pluses, stickers, slabs, third-party grades, fourth-party evaluations, etc...are still meaningful to one extent or another to me.

[HCumberdale]

If you know how to grade, you collect coins, and not slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers on coins; if you dont know how to grade, you collect slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers on coins, and not coins.

 

If you know how to grade, coins are relevant, and slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers are irrelevant; if you dont know how to grade, slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers are relevant, and coins are irrelevant.

 

If you know how to grade, you dont collect third-party and fourth-party opinions and endorsements on grades, because you know what youre doing; if you dont know how to grade, you collect third-party and fourth-party opinions and endorsements on grades, because you dont know what youre doing.

 

I can go on, but hows that for a quick summary?

 

This summary is too simplistic, and as most are aware simple answers rarely fully explain anything.

 

As Tom said, one can know how to grade, yet still care about the things you say would (or should?) be irrelevant to an experienced numismatist.

[ldhair]

I know how to grade very well, yet all the stars, pluses, stickers, slabs, third-party grades, fourth-party evaluations, etc...are still meaningful to one extent or another to me.

Same here.

[coinman1794]

I know how to grade very well, yet all the stars, pluses, stickers, slabs, third-party grades, fourth-party evaluations, etc...are still meaningful to one extent or another to me.

 

These bells and whistles on a slab mean very little to me, except in relation to my peace of mind if and when I chose to sell the coin.

[JKK]

I'd at least ask myself the question why the grading service or bell and whistle provider differed from my grading, and try to see what they saw that I did not. It's like if you take it to a knowledgeable friend and he says, "no way that's AU-53," well, it's worth figuring out what he's seeing.

[Walkerfan]

I look for quality coins WITHOUT the bells and whistles, if that makes any sense. This is only because, then I can have a better chance at getting them, at a fair price, rather than have the blind, zombie masses drive up the price just b/c the bell/whistle provider tells them to do so.

[copper toning]

If you know how to grade, you collect coins, and not slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers on coins; if you don’t know how to grade, you collect slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers on coins, and not coins.

 

If you know how to grade, coins are relevant, and slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers are irrelevant; if you don’t know how to grade, slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers are relevant, and coins are irrelevant.

 

If you know how to grade, you don’t collect third-party and fourth-party opinions and endorsements on grades, because you know what you’re doing; if you don’t know how to grade, you collect third-party and fourth-party opinions and endorsements on grades, because you don’t know what you’re doing.

 

I can go on, but how’s that for a quick summary?

 

 

And some times you know how to grade only to find out you do not.

[Raisethis2]

If you know how to grade getting a fair price for your coins at sale time without slabs, stickers and the like is near impossible.

[$ilverHawk]

It would be interesting to know, from a marketing perspective, as a coin dealer, how much added market value do you place on the various "plus" "sticker" etal grades.

 

Specifically, how does a collector decide if all of the TPG bonus packs actually result in a coin that has an increased market value? More importantly, an increased collector value.

 

In other words, please define "meaningful".

 

Carl

[RockMyAmadeus]

There is nothing wrong with not knowing how to grade.

 

After all, we are finite creatures, and we have a limited time on this planet with which to pursue our various interests.

 

One shouldn't need to become an expert on every single subject in which they have an interest to enjoy it. The "bells & whistles" help those folks do just that.

 

And since human nature is still the same, and there will always be people who will happily lie, cheat, and steal, these things help to prevent that from happening.

 

If I knew little about coins, but was attracted to a 1911 Matte Proof St. Gaudens $20, I am virtually guaranteed...not always, but almost always...that the $138,000 I pay for a PCGS slabbed PR66+ to a reputable dealer or auction house will not buy me a Chinese counterfeit made of brass with a value of about 87 cents, and it will be accepted in the marketplace at, or near, the grade given, should I or my heirs ever need to sell it.

 

And I bought it because the coin itself was attractive to me. The rest is just a fancy insurance policy. There's nothing wrong with insurance policies.

[bsshog40]

I feel that I can grade fairly decent enough to buy coins that I don't regret purchasing. I couldn't say that a few years ago. I have a tendency to actually look at all the bells and whistles that are sometimes attached to a coin and then look at the coin to see if I agree with it's assessment and my own appeal to the coin. So I guess I have to say that I don't wholely agree on the OP's statement.

[Mary B]

I would love to have some slabbed coins because I know if I find something better they resell easier. But I don't have that kind of cash so I find the best I can unslabbed and go from there.

[James_OldeTowne]

If you know how to grade, you collect coins, and not slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers on coins; if you don’t know how to grade, you collect slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers on coins, and not coins.

 

If you know how to grade, coins are relevant, and slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers are irrelevant; if you don’t know how to grade, slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers are relevant, and coins are irrelevant.

 

If you know how to grade, you don’t collect third-party and fourth-party opinions and endorsements on grades, because you know what you’re doing; if you don’t know how to grade, you collect third-party and fourth-party opinions and endorsements on grades, because you don’t know what you’re doing.

 

I can go on, but how’s that for a quick summary?

It completely ignores collectors who enjoy raw coins, though. I know many personally who do not know how to grade (very well), yet don't even buy slabs, much less the stars and pluses, etc.

[Crohnos01]

If you know how to grade, you collect coins, and not slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers on coins; if you don’t know how to grade, you collect slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers on coins, and not coins.

 

If you know how to grade, coins are relevant, and slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers are irrelevant; if you don’t know how to grade, slabs, and stars, and plusses, and stickers are relevant, and coins are irrelevant.

 

If you know how to grade, you don’t collect third-party and fourth-party opinions and endorsements on grades, because you know what you’re doing; if you don’t know how to grade, you collect third-party and fourth-party opinions and endorsements on grades, because you don’t know what you’re doing.

 

I can go on, but how’s that for a quick summary?

It completely ignores collectors who enjoy raw coins, though. I know many personally who do not know how to grade (very well), yet don't even buy slabs, much less the stars and pluses, etc.

 

You can add me to that list. I buy slabs on occasion, but its because the coin happens to be in a slab, not because the slab happens to contain a coin.

[Walkerfan]

Let me add and clarify that slabs are indeed a priority for me NGC/PCGS only but stars, pluses, beans, bells, whistles and streamers are not.

[Crohnos01]

Aww,, come on..... I bet you just can't wait for the Plucky Charm label.... It will be an Early ReleAse Label with yellow moons and pink hearts on the labels..... Really nice examples will go to CAC and get holographic green clover stickers........

[L1ncolnF4n]

It would be interesting to know, from a marketing perspective, as a coin dealer, how much added market value do you place on the various "plus" "sticker" etal grades.

 

Specifically, how does a collector decide if all of the TPG bonus packs actually result in a coin that has an increased market value? More importantly, an increased collector value.

 

In other words, please define "meaningful".

 

Carl

 

We've found a 2-10% premium for CAC coins, and minimal premium on + coins (except at the highest echelon of grades) at auction. Gold CAC obviously are coveted and bring 50%+ premiums in some cases.

[physics-fan3.14]

I know how to grade very well, yet all the stars, pluses, stickers, slabs, third-party grades, fourth-party evaluations, etc...are still meaningful to one extent or another to me.

 

These bells and whistles on a slab mean very little to me, except in relation to my peace of mind if and when I chose to sell the coin.

 

I agree. I grade the coin for myself - and if I agree with the slab (and thus, the price) only then will I buy it.

[Kurtdog]

I grade the coin for myself - and if I agree with the slab (and thus, the price) only then will I buy it.

Finally. What I wanted to hear. Thank you.

[BillJones]

In a perfect world your statements about coin grading and grading services would be an accurate summation. The trouble is, even those of us who can grade well sometimes have to sell our holdings , and there is the rub. Many people want to have their hands held with certification holders and CAC stickers. Some people are so sold on the superiority of the PCGS - CAC combination that they will accept no other product. If you think I'm full of it, read some of the strings on the PCGS site and even some of the statements that are made here.

 

Do I wish we didn't have to go through the double grading process (NGC or PCGS + CAC) to sell our holdings? You bet. The need for CAC will probably cost me thousands of dollars in postage and grading fees when it comes time for me to sell. Perhaps, if my collection is significant enough, a large auction house will help me.

 

Still in the end, the ability to grade coins is fast becoming only a starting point. In addition coins will need to the additional approval of multiple experts in order to get the best price. That is unfortunate, but that is the nature of the current market.

 

[RWB]

...is the is "cost of ignorance" factor?

[Kurtdog]

In a perfect world your statements about coin grading and grading services would be an accurate summation. The trouble is, even those of us who can grade well sometimes have to sell our holdings , and there is the rub. Many people want to have their hands held with certification holders and CAC stickers. Some people are so sold on the superiority of the PCGS - CAC combination that they will accept no other product. If you think I'm full of it, read some of the strings on the PCGS site and even some of the statements that are made here.

 

Do I wish we didn't have to go through the double grading process (NGC or PCGS + CAC) to sell our holdings? You bet. The need for CAC will probably cost me thousands of dollars in postage and grading fees when it comes time for me to sell. Perhaps, if my collection is significant enough, a large auction house will help me.

 

Still in the end, the ability to grade coins is fast becoming only a starting point. In addition coins will need to the additional approval of multiple experts in order to get the best price. That is unfortunate, but that is the nature of the current market.

Oh no, Bill, I'm acknowledging those marketing exigencies, if you will--absolutely. I'm glad you didn't read anything more into what I said than what I said. And, likewise, FWIW, I agree with you.

[JVC]

Bill, I always enjoy reading your posts. You have a wealth of knowledge on many numismatic issues. I realize you are not a big fan of CAC, but it would be interesting to see what percentage of your collection would receive CAC approval.

[Houston Investor]

The stickers and pluses are probably going to prompt the seller to add a tackon. Even without that these coins usually can cost more with all the bidding activity in an auction so hence the higher price after the seller's standard markup over cost is applied.

 

In buying stickered and plus coins I look at them very carefully under a glass to see if I agree with the rationale of it having a sticker or plus in the first place and hence a higher price. Like any coin, I have rejected a number of stickered (or plus) coins bc it had something from an eye appeal standpoint I did not like or feel it would be an easy sell to a customer at the price required to move it with positive P&L. Consequently there is a lot of subjectivity here.

 

One needs to be educated about grading and experienced with selling coins in the market place to really make a good buying decision. One should remember coins are not a high demand thing like food, clothing, lodging, travel, and entertainment and consequently selling them can be a real shock if one is in a bind and needs fast cash. Even compared to other hobbies like model railroading, boating, golf, adult entertainment I question if coins really hold their own as in getting decent money vs retail or customary market price. I have never heard of anyone coming into a model railroad hobby shop or strip club with something like a grey sheet demanding some cut rate or whilesale price trying to haggle with the seller.

 

I do believe stickers and pluses carry a lot of weight (in the buying decision) in assurance the coin has not been messed with considering some of the high priced coins (especially gold) I have seen which were puttied.

[mkman123]

The slabs are a big plus that the coin is authenticate as fakes are out there especially ones that can fool most. Also I want my coins protected from the elements. As far as plus, stars, etc not a big deal, I just want my coin slabbed.