Rwb and others, is this fake or real? 1814 platinum cbh

[mkman123]

http://rob.com/russ/collection/2316.html

 

1814 pattern struck in platinum? Someone made a comment at another forum that the coin is a counterfeit. Anyone know more abt this and is it even slabbed?? Never knew we even tried to male a Plat coin long ago

[CoinPulsive PCM]

I would hope it is not counterfeit seeing how many auction appearances the article states it has made.

I have no clue if it is legit or not and for all I know, the coin is fake and the article is a 100% fictional statement about the coin and its history.

If its fake and everything there is a scam, its a good one. It could be one of those: Its so very rare, there is no accessible evidence to say its fake or real. Nobody really knows much about it so I (the scammer) can make up a bunch of facts, but some factual information and give it some history; some richy rich guy who thinks everything is not enough will shell out big bucks for it.

 

 

-Dave

[e1cnr]

real - back then platinum was worth less than silver

 

thread from ats about it

[RockMyAmadeus]

It's real, and yes it's slabbed. It's a pattern. In the early 19th century, Platinum was of very limited use. The Russians used platinum for coinage in the 1830's, but platinum had very little value until the late 19th century.

 

Platinum was found in abundance in silver deposits of South America, and it generally annoyed the Spanish, because it had less value than silver.

 

In fact, that's where it got its name..."Platina" means "little silver."

[James_OldeTowne]

It is a genuine coin and very famous amongst early half-dollar specialists. Russ Logan used to show it off a long time ago.

 

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to own one of them. To me, it's a priceless numismatic treasure.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Gotta love those "P"s all over it.

[BROADSTRUCK]

It is GENUINE and was once part of the Philadelphia Mint Numismatic Collection and listed and plated in both the 1912 & 1914 books titled "Catalogue of coins, tokens, and medals in the numismatic collection of the Mint of the United States at Philadelphia, Pa".

 

Last I heard it's in a NGC Details holder.

 

[WoodenJefferson]

I did not know this existed.

 

Question: I thought a 'pattern' coin was a trial strike of a die pattern that was never put into production, can a different metal with actual production dies be called a pattern?

[James_OldeTowne]

I did not know this existed.

 

Question: I thought a 'pattern' coin was a trial strike of a die pattern that was never put into production, can a different metal with actual production dies be called a pattern?

Definitely. The 1974 aluminum cents come to mind.

[BillJones]

It looks a lot sharper in that picture than in other photos I have seen of this piece. I could be wrong, but I think this might be the only one of the three platinum 1814 half dollars that is in collector's hands.

[BOILER78]

The coin would technically be classified as an experimental piece but it is unclear exactly why they were struck. There are three known with the former Philadelphia mint collection coin now at the Smithsonian which leaves two for the collecting community to fight over

[RWB]

In 1814-15 platinum was as much nuisance as useful. It took the place of silver in native gold and thus debased the more valuable metals. It occurred naturally along with iridium and was very difficult to remove from ore.

 

“Gold presented at the mints in its native state was invariably alloyed with silver in greater or lesser proportion. In some locations, particularly the Brazilian mines, palladium was found mixed with the gold. In gold from northern South America, platinum was often present. (On one occasion, a parcel of gold dust from Colombia, weighing 356 ounces troy, was melted at the mint, and found to contain 71 ounces of platinum. Being too stubborn to yield to furnace heat, it remained as a cake in the bottom of the crucible, and was found to contain nearly one per cent gold.) Other baser metals, such as tin, lead, etc. were contained in very small proportions in native gold, but these impurities were often sufficient to render the gold texture brittle.”

[Excerpt “From Mine to Mint” as adapted from Eckfeldt, 1841]

 

[Zoins]

Question: I thought a 'pattern' coin was a trial strike of a die pattern that was never put into production, can a different metal with actual production dies be called a pattern?

 

There's often confusion here because the word 'pattern' is used to mean non-coin and also a specific category of non-coin pieces to test designs. The common use of the word pattern would lead it to be used for designs, but somewhere along the way other categories of experimental pieces were added.

 

Here are some categories of patterns from United States Pattern Coins: A History and Overview:

 

- Trial Pieces

- Experimental Pieces

- Patterns

- Numismatic Delicacies

- Restrikes

[RWB]

For a small fee, the mint would have your base metal set gold plated.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Imagine if Congress had decided to use platinum in our base metal coinage of the mid 19th century instead of nickel......

[RWB]

Platinum was "cheap" not not that cheap---

[RockMyAmadeus]

Still cheaper than silver.

[physics-fan3.14]

Imagine if Congress had decided to use platinum in our base metal coinage of the mid 19th century instead of nickel......

 

Russia did a trial run of platinum coins for general circulation around this same time. The issue was widely derided, and people refused to accept them. Platinum, at this time, was not worth as much as silver and people thought they were trying to debase the coinage. Coupled with the metallurgical challenges that Roger alluded to, the Russian mint decided not to pursue platinum coinage further, although there are pattern and trial pieces throughout much of the 19th century.

 

Today, these Russian coins are very rare and very valuable.

[mkman123]

learned a lot of neat stuff!

[RWB]

The Russian Numismatic Society has considerable informatioin on the Russian platinum coinage. Check their website.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Imagine if Congress had decided to use platinum in our base metal coinage of the mid 19th century instead of nickel......

 

Russia did a trial run of platinum coins for general circulation around this same time. The issue was widely derided, and people refused to accept them. Platinum, at this time, was not worth as much as silver and people thought they were trying to debase the coinage. Coupled with the metallurgical challenges that Roger alluded to, the Russian mint decided not to pursue platinum coinage further, although there are pattern and trial pieces throughout much of the 19th century.

 

Today, these Russian coins are very rare and very valuable.

 

 

I'm pretty sure the Russians made well over a million platinum coins, mostly 3 rubles, between 1828-1845, and they circulated well enough. They are, though, quite rare because they were withdrawn from circulation by the Imperial gov't.

[AnkurJ]

It's real, and it's spectacular!

[messydesk]

Strange and perhaps naive question, but what was the mint doing with a 'P' die lettering punch in 1814? They had no other use for it. I would think they wouldn't have made one just for this coin. Did they modify a retired R punch? Borrow one from elsewhere?

[RWB]

They had several sets of letter and digit punches for making medal dies.

[James_OldeTowne]

They had several sets of letter and digit punches for making medal dies.

That would have been my guess as well.

[mkman123]

Whats the going rate on a coin like this? 50k ?

[RWB]

...add another "0"

[mkman123]

500k wow.....

[BillJones]

I believe this coin also has the word "patina" or something like that engraved in -script on the reverse.

[RockMyAmadeus]

They had several sets of letter and digit punches for making medal dies.

 

Plus, it was that week's letter on Sesame Street....