Is theft/robbery part of the norm now?

[HCumberdale]

At a recent club meeting one of the regulars told me he had been robbed again recently (for his coins). He told me he has been robbed multiple times in the past as well. Another individual said that it has happened to him too, and that he believes every long time collector/dealer has experienced this at some point.

 

I find his belief a little hard to accept, I would like to think that most people have not had coins lost due to theft/robbery, or am I just deluding myself?

 

Please share how long you've been in the business and how many times (if any) you've lost coins from theft. Hopefully after enough people have shared I can go back to my happy little world.

 

Personally, I've been collecting/selling for a little over 10 years and never experienced theft of any kind, though I tend to be rather cautious as well.

[MarkFeld]

No, that is not the norm.

 

For every person who is robbed and reports it, there are MANY, MANY others who are not, so say they nothing.

 

I have been in business since 1979, and most dealers and collectors I have known have not been robbed.

[CoinPulsive PCM]

I've never been "robbed" unless you consider the Mailman opening my Ebay packages. In June 3 coins I bought on Ebay had tracking #s that said delievered, but I never saw them. I contacted the Postmaster for Lakeland and he discovered that an employee stole them. I got them back, the employee got fired and went to prison.

 

I do know of several dealers who have been robbed, 2 of whom live in Floirda. One dealer was robbed twice, once in 2002 and again in May of this year. The time in May, he defended himself and killed the assailant.

 

IMO, Coin Dealers are "targets" for robbery/theft more than one might think. If you "think like a criminal" you can somewhat understand why a criminal would target a Coin Dealer over robbing a Best Buy Manager. One seasoned Dealer I know in Auburndale had his store robbed and although there was sufficent evidence of who commited the crime, the police didn't make any arrests and dismissed the case. He recommended that a newly established dealer Like I am should be very, very cautious durring the first months of opening. Someone could come in, pose as a "customer" who is just checking out a new business but then they come back with another person and rob you.

 

Being cautious has obviously worked for you and in todays world, you can never be too cautious. If you buy and sell coins from your house and you have business cards, never put your address on them. Always make housecalls or meet somewhere away from your home.

 

-Dave

[bsshog40]

I'm not a dealer or anything but I would look at this as poor mismanagement of the mouth. Coin dealers/sellers that go to a lot of shows tend to carry thier coins with them, not like most businesses where thier merchandise is in a brick and mortar shop. If they talk a lot about what they have, where they are going, conversations can easily be picked up by thieves. Thieves tend to strive on those that talk a lot about posessions in hand. JMO

[MarkFeld]

I'm not a dealer or anything but I would look at this as poor mismanagement of the mouth. Coin dealers/sellers that go to a lot of shows tend to carry thier coins with them, not like most businesses where thier merchandise is in a brick and mortar shop. If they talk a lot about what they have, where they are going, conversations can easily be picked up by thieves. Thieves tend to strive on those that talk a lot about posessions in hand. JMO

 

I am certain that many collectors and dealers who have been robbed, were targeted, and NOT because they had big mouths.

[CoinPulsive PCM]

No, that is not the norm.

 

For every person who is robbed and reports it, there are MANY, MANY others who are not, so say they nothing.

 

I have been in business since 1979, and most dealers and collectors I have known have not been robbed.

 

Mark. Seeing how you are in Cali. and HC and I are in Florida, you say you have never been robbed, and HC knows others who claim to have been robbed. Do you think that difference in demographics and state laws play a "role" in Coin Shop crimes? I know that none of the coin dealers that I know from my hometown area in CT have ever been robbed, but I have heard of dealers on Long Island who have had multiple break-ins and thefts.

 

IMHO, the economic condition of each state is different. that applied to poverty, violent crimes, education, unemployment ,etc. For example, If a state like California has a lower unemployment rate, high levels of education and less poverty than in Florida; theft and robbery will be not as common in CA than in FL.

 

-Dave

[MarkFeld]

No, that is not the norm.

 

For every person who is robbed and reports it, there are MANY, MANY others who are not, so say they nothing.

 

I have been in business since 1979, and most dealers and collectors I have known have not been robbed.

 

Mark. Seeing how you are in Cali. and HC and I are in Florida, you say you have never been robbed, and HC knows others who claim to have been robbed. Do you think that difference in demographics and state laws play a "role" in Coin Shop crimes? I know that none of the coin dealers that I know from my hometown area in CT have ever been robbed, but I have heard of dealers on Long Island who have had multiple break-ins and thefts.

 

IMHO, the economic condition of each state is different. that applied to poverty, violent crimes, education, unemployment ,etc. For example, If a state like California has a lower unemployment rate, high levels of education and less poverty than in Florida; theft and robbery will be not as common in CA than in FL.

 

-Dave

 

I don't know the answer to your question. It could be a result bad neighborhoods, bad luck, poor security in coin shops, people being targeted leaving various coins shows (especially ones with less obvious security) or various other reasons.

[mtnstyne]

I wouldn't quite call this guy a dealer, but a guy who sells coins at the flea market regularly and has a large inventory of junk said he has been robbed several times. All the times he is robbed it is out of his car where he stores his coins after he packs them in there and drives home from the flea market where 1,000s have seen him every weekend.

 

To me he advertises to be robbed, maybe he makes all his money through insurance claims.

[wheat'swheats]

At a recent club meeting one of the regulars told me he had been robbed again recently (for his coins). He told me he has been robbed multiple times in the past as well. Another individual said that it has happened to him too, and that he believes every long time collector/dealer has experienced this at some point.

 

I find his belief a little hard to accept, I would like to think that most people have not had coins lost due to theft/robbery, or am I just deluding myself?

 

Please share how long you've been in the business and how many times (if any) you've lost coins from theft. Hopefully after enough people have shared I can go back to my happy little world.

 

Personally, I've been collecting/selling for a little over 10 years and never experienced theft of any kind, though I tend to be rather cautious as well.

I am retired Law enforcement with 20 years. I know for a fact when ever we had a large coin show in our area there were at least two thefts. I say thefts because when someone follows you and steals from your car or room it is not robbery. but some of those thefts were also robberies. Down here we ( my friends and I) all go armed to shows if we are carring a lot of inventory to trade or sell. If I am going to an area where I am not allowed to carry I do not take any valuable coins.

wheat

[Kurtdog]

Theft is a property crime. Robbery is a crime against the person as well as against the property. In a robbery, the victim is present during the theft. That's why robbery is a higher classification crime.

 

I imagine thefts go on a lot more than we're made aware of in these shows.

[bsshog40]

I'm not a dealer or anything but I would look at this as poor mismanagement of the mouth. Coin dealers/sellers that go to a lot of shows tend to carry thier coins with them, not like most businesses where thier merchandise is in a brick and mortar shop. If they talk a lot about what they have, where they are going, conversations can easily be picked up by thieves. Thieves tend to strive on those that talk a lot about posessions in hand. JMO

 

I am certain that many collectors and dealers who have been robbed, were targeted, and NOT because they had big mouths.

You should'nt take my comment so seriously Mark. I merely meant that some people can say a little too much when someone may be listening.

[wheat'swheats]

I'm not a dealer or anything but I would look at this as poor mismanagement of the mouth. Coin dealers/sellers that go to a lot of shows tend to carry thier coins with them, not like most businesses where thier merchandise is in a brick and mortar shop. If they talk a lot about what they have, where they are going, conversations can easily be picked up by thieves. Thieves tend to strive on those that talk a lot about posessions in hand. JMO

 

I am certain that many collectors and dealers who have been robbed, were targeted, and NOT because they had big mouths.

You should'nt take my comment so seriously Mark. I merely meant that some people can say a little too much when someone may be listening.

There is a criminal element out there that make their living robbing coin dealers , diamond dealers, gold dealers etc. Their expertise is finding and picking out the right target. Thats's what they do. They watch until the optimun time presents it self and they move. You don't have to say a word, they will recognize you.

wheat

[newprepper]

they also look for soft targets, they prey on the weak appearing, non-aware people. Wheat is right, you don't have to say aword, they WILL recognize you.

[Kurtdog]

Down here we ( my friends and I) all go armed to shows if we are carring a lot of inventory to trade or sell. If I am going to an area where I am not allowed to carry I do not take any valuable coins.

Have you or any of these friends of yours ever pointed a loaded gun at anyone?

[newprepper]

I'm just wondering what you really want to know by asking that question, If I was carrying a large amount of valuables I would be carrying a handgun also. However I would have it in the open for all to see. This creates a deterent and the bad guys would think twice before deciding to try and rob me. The one thing most thieves worry about is an armed homeowner. That being said, if you open carry and somebody means you harm you lose the advantage. but if you have your arms full with a box and somebody points a gun at you and you are carring concealled, it will take a minimum of 2-3 seconds to drop what you have and draw your weapon, aquire your target and fire, way less than a second for bad guy to squeeze trigger. By open carrying, IMHO you create deterent by presenting yourself as a hard target. There are other ways around it. Talk to a security expert.

[Kurtdog]

I'm just wondering what you really want to know by asking that question [...]

Sure. That's deadly force to protect property. You're a soldier boy, right? Do you know what it feels like to point a loaded gun at somebody? Or, for that matter, do you know when it's permissible by law to fire upon that somebody? And, he and his friends are amateurs, right? They're not trained professionals? Are you beginning to grasp the idea?

[newprepper]

I was not trying to be confrontational when I asked the question, it reminded me of after I came home from the war being asked if I killed anyone. No I'm not a Soldier BOY, I am a highly trained Army Infantry squad leader, I have worked with Special forces in Iraq, during the invasion in 03. I also have spent the last 5 years training other soldiers to deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan and any other place they may be deployed to. I attended a school for Executive Protection that included alot of handgun time, unarmed self protection, escape and evasion driving and had as a core of instructors, ex military and ex secret service personnel. and No it is not protection of property when somebody points a gun at you. At that instance it becomes self-defense. And you should put as much lead into the other person as you can. Yes I do know what it is like to point a loaded weapon at somebody, I have done it as a civilian and member of the military. You don't know what the qualifications are of them, I didn't see you ask that. some states require training before allowing carry of handguns. Some people take training for fun. I do know when it is permissible to fire upon somebody. Pull a knife on me within 7 meters and after they carry you away to the morgue, I may or may not get arrested, I may or may not go to trial, but in the end I will be aquitted. Because I know that under those circumstances a person can move 21 feet in less time than most people can draw a weapon. THAT constitutes deadly threat and it is permissible to use deadly force.

[Kurtdog]

I was not trying to be confrontational when I asked the question, it reminded me of after I came home from the war being asked if I killed anyone. No I'm not a Soldier BOY, I am a highly trained Army Infantry squad leader, I have worked with Special forces in Iraq, during the invasion in 03. I also have spent the last 5 years training other soldiers to deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan and any other place they may be deployed to. I attended a school for Executive Protection that included alot of handgun time, unarmed self protection, escape and evasion driving and had as a core of instructors, ex military and ex secret service personnel. and No it is not protection of property when somebody points a gun at you. At that instance it becomes self-defense. And you should put as much lead into the other person as you can. Yes I do know what it is like to point a loaded weapon at somebody, I have done it as a civilian and member of the military. You don't know what the qualifications are of them, I didn't see you ask that. some states require training before allowing carry of handguns. Some people take training for fun. I do know when it is permissible to fire upon somebody. Pull a knife on me within 7 meters and after they carry you away to the morgue, I may or may not get arrested, I may or may not go to trial, but in the end I will be aquitted. Because I know that under those circumstances a person can move 21 feet in less time than most people can draw a weapon. THAT constitutes deadly threat and it is permissible to use deadly force.

Ignernt. Plum ignernt. Have a great day, bud. I don't have time for this [expletive deleted].

[newprepper]

That is about the response I expected. You insult every person who ever put on a uniform with your "soldier boy" comment, and now you have no way to defend yourself. So you try to say the other person is not worthy of your time. I'm sure most of the people who go into service are just barely educated slugs that are beneath you in society. Yet they are the ones who volunteered to lay down their life if needed so people like you can sponge off society being self-important. YOU have a nice day. and enjoy your freedom

[PerryHall]

I'm just wondering what you really want to know by asking that question [...]

Sure. That's deadly force to protect property.

 

No---it's called self defense. In too many cases the robber doesn't leave any living witnesses behind. It's naive to think otherwise.

[wheat'swheats]

I'm just wondering what you really want to know by asking that question, If I was carrying a large amount of valuables I would be carrying a handgun also. However I would have it in the open for all to see. This creates a deterent and the bad guys would think twice before deciding to try and rob me. The one thing most thieves worry about is an armed homeowner. That being said, if you open carry and somebody means you harm you lose the advantage. but if you have your arms full with a box and somebody points a gun at you and you are carring concealled, it will take a minimum of 2-3 seconds to drop what you have and draw your weapon, aquire your target and fire, way less than a second for bad guy to squeeze trigger. By open carrying, IMHO you create deterent by presenting yourself as a hard target. There are other ways around it. Talk to a security expert.

Never carry a weapon in the open. Creates more problems than it solves, the robber will just wait until the time is right to releive you from your weapon. What he does not know can help you.The deturrent come when they don't know if you are armed.

wheat

[HCumberdale]

Ok...I did not intend for this to become political...

 

I do generally carry concealed when attending coin shows. Florida is not an open carry state, though I'm fairly certain I would not want to open carry anyway if I were able to do so. My wife thinks carrying a gun at all a bit excessive, and sometimes I wonder if she's right, but then I tend to be a little more cautious than her. I work in a prison, so I see a lot of .

 

I have never had to point my weapon at anyone, or defend myself with force of any kind, as an adult. I hope it stays that way.

 

Newprepper, I thank you for your service. We don't thank our soldiers enough for everything they've done and contnue to do for us.

 

Kutdog, I don't know if you're a U.S. citizen or not, but I think all U.S. citizens owe respect to our military regardless. I found your "soldier boy" comment offensive, but to each his own.

 

As for protecting property with deadly force, I wouldn't think of it. But here's my hangup - a bad guy threatens me with a weapon for my coins - I'd choose giving up my coins every time if I knew he would leave me unharmed - BUT - I see too many cases where the victim complies during a robbery and then gets shot or killed afterward. True, my data are skewed (I work in a prison remember) but many times it seems the bad guy isn't thinking straight at all, he's highly unpredictable, and thats exactly what I'm scared of. I hope I'd shoot if I were in this situation, but honestly I don't know. If the robber is a professional, I lose no matter what, I'm not highly trained like newprepper is

[wheat'swheats]

I'm just wondering what you really want to know by asking that question [...]

Sure. That's deadly force to protect property. You're a soldier boy, right? Do you know what it feels like to point a loaded gun at somebody? Or, for that matter, do you know when it's permissible by law to fire upon that somebody? And, he and his friends are amateurs, right? They're not trained professionals? Are you beginning to grasp the idea?

WHAT part of 20 years law enforcement did you not understand, I was criminal investigation drug enforcement, and two of my coin buddies are swat trained. We all were required to quallify every six months an were expected to know the law.FYI when a man tries to rob(armed) you , you have the right to use deadly force

wheat

[wheat'swheats]

Down here we ( my friends and I) all go armed to shows if we are carring a lot of inventory to trade or sell. If I am going to an area where I am not allowed to carry I do not take any valuable coins.

Have you or any of these friends of yours ever pointed a loaded gun at anyone?

Yes I have used my weapon

wheat

[newprepper]

The jury is out on open/concealed carry, its more of a big stick deterrent. That is where situational awareness comes into play. You cannot win when your hands are full walking into a bad situation. Concealed or not. I hope I never have to point at anyone again. Thanks for all your service, in the streets or in the prisons. tough jobs, and not enough pay.

[Kurtdog]

Kutdog, I don't know if you're a U.S. citizen or not, but I think all U.S. citizens owe respect to our military regardless. I found your "soldier boy" comment offensive, but to each his own.

I hate to complicate this for you folks. I mean, seeing as how you all seem to have it down so, well, confidently. However, if you don't mind too much, why don't you just go back and read the reply, again, and try to get a grasp on the context, too. Then ask yourself how it is you're so confident I wasn't simply using the term, endearingly, i.e., something like this:

.

 

Oh, and enjoy. Sheesh!

[bsshog40]

Kutdog, I don't know if you're a U.S. citizen or not, but I think all U.S. citizens owe respect to our military regardless. I found your "soldier boy" comment offensive, but to each his own.

I hate to complicate this for you folks. I mean, seeing as how you all seem to have it down so, well, confidently. However, if you don't mind too much, why don't you just go back and read the reply, again, and try to get a grasp on the context, too. Then ask yourself how it is you're so confident I wasn't simply using the term, endearingly, i.e., something like this:

.

 

Oh, and enjoy. Sheesh!

To tell you the truth, I read it as being sarcastic also. Guess it's just a veterns point of view.

[WinstonWare]

My wife was mugged on a busy street at rush hour in downtown Boston a couple of years ago. The mugger tried to snatch and run with her purse but my wife caught the strap of her purse on her elbow. She tried to hang onto the purse and received a punch to the face and a black eye for her efforts. A car pulled up, the assailant jumped in and got away. I wasn't there and no one on the busy street gave any assistance.

 

The police did come to look at the scene and give her a ride home. I spoke with the officer and he said that since they had essentially nothing to go on but a description of an average looking guy there was little they could do.

 

Her credit cards had all been run up by the time she was able to cancel them only a couple of hours after the attack. Of course, her cash and other valuables in her purse were gone for good.

 

 

[bsshog40]

Sorry to hear of your wifes misfortune there Winston. My wife has a concealed liscense. She also hunts and is very familiar with guns. I have told her if she is ever put into a situation like that, DO NOT hestitate to shoot. Pointing a gun with no intentions of shooting is much more dangerous and could get you shot by your own gun. My wife works in the Shreveport La. area and there is a lot of crime by very gutsy criminals. I have shot at someone before myself, and when it comes down to my family and/or myself, I will not hesitate to shoot an individual that has no respect for our lives.

[newprepper]

Thanks for your sevice bsshog40, and belated happy bday, Everybody needs to realize, the purse is for cosmetics and coupons, you need a small wallet for everything else that goes somewhere else. Same for guys, 1 wallet for badguy, your real wallet elsewhere. And money and credit cards are not worth killing somebody over. Now as mentioned before, the very second you are staring at the business end of a weapon, all bets are off, use every round of ammo you have. You can't get sued by a deadman and a deadman can't seek vengeance