What to do with ICG graded coins.

[Mark T]

Let me be more specific. I recently picked up several $5 Indians in ICG MS-62. I know this is a tough series to grade and I won't even try to grade the series. So, any thoughts on how accurate ICG may be on this particular series.

 

Thank You.

 

 

 

I have had a few ICG Gold $2.5 Indians – only one crossed over to PCGS at the same grade. They were bought sight unseen from Heritage a few years back.

Yes you can get the ICG coins for a bargain – risky to play the cross over game unless you are able to see the coins in hand and understand how to properly grade the series.

Can you post the sellers picture of this coin ??

 

[JIM F.]

These are seller pics. So not very good to judge by.

 

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Let me be more specific. I recently picked up several $5 Indians in ICG MS-62. I know this is a tough series to grade and I won't even try to grade the series. So, any thoughts on how accurate ICG may be on this particular series.

On all gold, I tend to subtract one point from the given ICG grade, based on in-hand observation of course. Hand-selected coins may well be graded perfectly in an ICG holder, but my personal experience gives that low odds.

[Hard Times]

Sometimes ICG undergrades relative to grading standards elsewhere. But seeing in hand is a must before making a decision. Here is a token I purchased at a show. After viewing many HTT's and seeing how NGC graded, I was pretty sure it would come back higher. It did.

 

Best, HT

 

 

 

[JIM F.]

Sometimes ICG undergrades relative to grading standards elsewhere. But seeing in hand is a must before making a decision. Here is a token I purchased at a show. After viewing many HTT's and seeing how NGC graded, I was pretty sure it would come back higher. It did.

 

Best, HT

 

 

Did you crack it or submit in the ICG holder?

 

Thank You.

 

[Hard Times]

I always crack. I learned my lesson when I submitted a stunning seated half in a old ANACS MS62 holder, and stated I would take as low as MS61. They gave it a 61 in the cross over. I had taken it to a show and compared it to MS62's and MS63's and by all comparisons, it was going to go 62 on a bad day, 63 on a good day. So I took the bias of the holder out of the equation from thereon, and in general I think I have benefited from the cracks outs that I occasionally submit - at least I have not had a single down grade since, and a few ups. But again, seeing in hand first.

 

Best, HT

[Mark T]

Photo is to small – take some high resolution pics of it when you get it in.

Try to get some angled pictures as well .

 

[Hard Times]

Mark - angled... you thinking putty on that quarter eagle?

[DirtyGoldMan]

I do not accommodate ICG-graded coins in my collection. I recently purchased one and have cracked it out for submission ATS.

 

I do not like the holders, the grading, the story, the lack of liquidity, etc. A non-PCGS/NGC coin in another slab is worse than raw, IMO.

[Mark T]

Mark - angled... you thinking putty on that quarter eagle?

 

I am not saying its puttied but as you know if it is we might be able to see it better with angled photos.

[Coindude]

Worse than raw... that's cuz you have to crack it and spend the money to resubmit!

 

I do like one thing they do, the fact that you can see the grade from the top. I know that there were a couple of companies that developed that technology but they are now defunct. SEGS was one, but I believe that there was a predecessor.

[jom]

ICG is still very much in business in Tampa, Florida.

 

The thing about ICG is that a fair number of coins in their holders are over graded relative the standards applied by PCGS and NGC.

 

Not just directed to you Bill but everyone: If the ICG coins you see on the market are seen as overgraded couldn't the reason be that the correctly graded coins have all been cracked out? Therefore, what is left in the market are the "problem" coins.

 

IMO, this has a lot to do with the market perception of non-PCGS/NGC TPGs. I saw it first with the old ANACS back in the 90s, then later ICG etc. Even NGC takes a hit in this regard.

 

The graders at these companies aren't nearly as bad as everyone seems to think they are. CAC has shown the Big TWO aren't invulnerable either for that matter....and even CAC isn't perfect.

 

jom

[JIM F.]

OK.

When I get them I will take pics and crack them out.

 

Thank You

 

[Mark T]

OK.

When I get them I will take pics and crack them out.

 

Thank You

 

 

I would not crack it out right away unless your goal is to cross it over .

Just curious how much did you pay for the coin ??

[e1cnr]

I do not understand thread

 

are these in your collection now?

are you considering buying some?

do you want them in a registry set?

 

If you are looking to buy for quick flip - you need to know more about series/prices than we can help you with

 

I look at all off label slabs if the coin/series interests me

I especially luv cherrypicking scammers.

[DirtyGoldMan]

One of my favorite ICG coin stories was from about 10+ years ago. I was new to the upper-middle end of coin collecting and purchased an ICG MS-63 Saint on ebay. It was an attractive coin, but I did not know much about grading and what not.

 

Soon after, I wanted to get the coin into a PCGS holder, so I cracked the coin out of the holder. It was probably one of my first crackouts, and I fumbled in such a way that the coin ended up falling into the garbage can. I pulled it out, send it to PCGS, and it came back a 64.

[jom]

...and I fumbled in such a way that the coin ended up falling into the garbage can. I pulled it out, send it to PCGS, and it came back a 64.

 

Is it possible if you had rolled it down your driveway instead that PCGS would have come back with a 65 grade?

 

jom

[e1cnr]

a few years ago there was a early lincoln in ICG MS67Red in a Heritage auction that sold for near $3K

 

half a year later the same coin in PCGS MS67Red sold for over $10K

 

 

[DirtyGoldMan]

...and I fumbled in such a way that the coin ended up falling into the garbage can. I pulled it out, send it to PCGS, and it came back a 64.

 

Is it possible if you had rolled it down your driveway instead that PCGS would have come back with a 65 grade?

 

jom

Perhaps. Maybe I should crack it out and try it.

[coinman1794]

Should I crack them out and submit to NGC/PCGS?

 

 

What you should do all depends on what the coins are, their true quality, and whether or not they would be gradable elsewhere.

[123cents]

I like the old ICG coins with the barcode on the obverse. Many of these in circulated grades are accurately graded.

[BillJones]

Not just directed to you Bill but everyone: If the ICG coins you see on the market are seen as overgraded couldn't the reason be that the correctly graded coins have all been cracked out? Therefore, what is left in the market are the "problem" coins.

 

That fact that some of their better graded coins get cracked and crossed does have some influence on the quality of the ICG coins you see, but ICG has graded a lot of coins for the members of my local club. ICG takes a table at our club show, and a lot of members submit coins to them. The holder grades are "first hand" results go from ICG to the original owner when I see them. The grading is not as strict as it is for PCGS and NGC.

 

 

[jom]

Not just directed to you Bill but everyone: If the ICG coins you see on the market are seen as overgraded couldn't the reason be that the correctly graded coins have all been cracked out? Therefore, what is left in the market are the "problem" coins.

 

That fact that some of their better graded coins get cracked and crossed does have some influence on the quality of the ICG coins you see, but ICG has graded a lot of coins for the members of my local club. ICG takes a table at our club show, and a lot of members submit coins to them. The holder grades are "first hand" results go from ICG to the original owner when I see them. The grading is not as strict as it is for PCGS and NGC.

 

OK, very good. However, do you find ICG being consistent with this "looser" grading standard? IMO, it's far more important to be consistent than strict. It gives you more of an idea of what you are getting if the TPG is consistent with whatever standard they see fit to use.

 

Just curious....

 

Thanks

 

jom

[mkman123]

jimbucks could sell the ICG coins and buy NGC/PCGS coins with the money or post pics of the coins he has for us to see

[BillJones]

OK, very good. However, do you find ICG being consistent with this "looser" grading standard? IMO, it's far more important to be consistent than strict. It gives you more of an idea of what you are getting if the TPG is consistent with whatever standard they see fit to use.

 

Just curious....

 

I have never really thought about it in terms of consistency. I've never spent time cataloging ICG in terms of "most all of their MS-64 coins would be MS-62 in NGC and PCGS holders." I just look at the coins, assign my grade and conclude that they don't measure up the to the standards for the grade that brings market value X.

 

Many years ago Heritage had in in-house grading service called NCI. From what I've heard from dealer, the NCI grader was pretty consistent, but his consistency was consistent with constant over grading to a consistent degree. I know I've used the word "consistent" too often, but I hope you get the idea. I suppose that is a standard of sorts, but for most collectors it would be more of a contributor to confusion than consistency. Most novices and casual collectors have enough trouble with grading without adding to it the nuances of regularly applied standards that don't measure up to the generally accepted parameters of the market.

 

[MarkFeld]

One of my favorite ICG coin stories was from about 10+ years ago. I was new to the upper-middle end of coin collecting and purchased an ICG MS-63 Saint on ebay. It was an attractive coin, but I did not know much about grading and what not.

 

Soon after, I wanted to get the coin into a PCGS holder, so I cracked the coin out of the holder. It was probably one of my first crackouts, and I fumbled in such a way that the coin ended up falling into the garbage can. I pulled it out, send it to PCGS, and it came back a 64.

 

I have, on more than one occasion, heard that your collection was "garbage".

 

 

 

Now I know why.

 

 

[jom]

One of my favorite ICG coin stories was from about 10+ years ago. I was new to the upper-middle end of coin collecting and purchased an ICG MS-63 Saint on ebay. It was an attractive coin, but I did not know much about grading and what not.

 

Soon after, I wanted to get the coin into a PCGS holder, so I cracked the coin out of the holder. It was probably one of my first crackouts, and I fumbled in such a way that the coin ended up falling into the garbage can. I pulled it out, send it to PCGS, and it came back a 64.

 

I have, on more than one occasion, heard that your collection was "garbage".

 

 

 

Now I know why.

 

 

Were you his dealer?

 

 

jom

[t-arc]

ICG coins are great and I consider them raw until I grade them, same as I do with pcgs and ngc coins.

[PerryHall]

ICG coins are great and I consider them raw until I grade them, same as I do with pcgs and ngc coins.

 

Excellent reply and I feel the same way. Even NGC and PCGS get it wrong sometimes.

[Kurtdog]

ICG coins are great and I consider them raw until I grade them, same as I do with pcgs and ngc coins.

You must be one of those odd old bones we refer to as a "coin collector."