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What to do with ICG graded coins.

Started by JIM F.,

69 posts in this topic

JIM F.

JIM F.

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Nothing wrong with ICG coins, but if you want to cross them you could just leave them in the holder.

 

I don't think they will cross ICG coins.....but perhaps I am wrong?

 

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

Posted
Posted
Nothing wrong with ICG coins, but if you want to cross them you could just leave them in the holder.

 

I don't think they will cross ICG coins.....but perhaps I am wrong?

 

Correct!

 

PCGS-holdered coins are reviewed for NGC certification. Coins will be removed from their holders only if they can be graded at the same or higher than your specified minimum grade. Specify "ANY" as the minimum grade to have your coin crossed regardless of grade. Specify "DETAILS" to cross coins with detrimental surface conditions. NGC does not accept MS/PF70 coins for CrossOver at the same grade. You may not request a higher minimum grade than is on the current holder. Non-PCGS-holdered coins must be removed from their holders and submitted raw.

 

Chris

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Mark T

Mark T

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Nothing wrong with ICG coins, but if you want to cross them you could just leave them in the holder.

 

I don't think they will cross ICG coins.....but perhaps I am wrong?

 

Both NGC and PCGS will cross them if the grade is correct , you can always submit with a lower minimum grade for the cross.

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Keigwin

Keigwin

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Posted
Nothing wrong with ICG coins, but if you want to cross them you could just leave them in the holder.

 

I don't think they will cross ICG coins.....but perhaps I am wrong?

 

Both NGC and PCGS will cross them if the grade is correct , you can always submit with a lower minimum grade for the cross.

I don't think this is correct. NGC no longer crosses ICG coins. PCGS will.

Lance.

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Coinbuf

Coinbuf

Posted
Posted
send them to NGC

 

Wont do any good as NGC will only cross PCGS graded coins. If you send a coin in an ICG holder to NGC thay will crack it and submitt it as raw, PCGS will accept ICG coins and will not crack if it does not meet the grade specified.

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bochiman

bochiman

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As mentioned, NGC won't cross straight across (only for PCGS graded coins).

 

PCGS WILL accept them for crossovers but if they don't like what they see in the holder, you will get them back in the ICG holder and not crossed.

 

As for what to do with them....with mine I have kept them...when I go to sell them, I will offer them at the value I think they are for what I think the grade is (not necessarily the ICG grade). I will treat as if they were raw.

 

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MJ

MJ

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ICG are essentially raw and should be purchased accordingly and give yourself plenty of downside room. There are some values out there. Dale Friend once told me a cool story of an ICG score.

 

MJ

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CoinPulsive PCM

CoinPulsive PCM

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ICG is a decent TPG, and the only issue with ICG graded coins is the re-sale. IMHO, I don't understand why someone would care so much as to de-value an ICG graded coin but pay more for the same coin graded by NGC or PCGS. Buy the coin, not the holder. Yea, I know that the TPG name plays a huge roll in premiums.

 

I know a dealer who wishes PCI was still around. He has hundreds of coins (mainly errors) graded by PCI, many part of the Garrison Collection.

 

I say that unless your ICG slabs are scratched and its hard to see the coin under 10X magnification, don't get them regraded.

 

-Dave

 

 

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BillJones

BillJones

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ICG is still very much in business in Tampa, Florida.

 

The thing about ICG is that a fair number of coins in their holders are over graded relative the standards applied by PCGS and NGC. I have seen some ICG coins that were properly graded IMO, and I sold a couple of them when I was a dealer. Others are "off" to degrees ranging from "near miss" to "not even in the same country." At the last local club auction there was an ICG coin they graded MS-65 that I would have been hard pressed to have graded MS-61.

 

That point made, I think you best action would be to grade the coins yourself and send in only those that you think are properly graded. There is no use in wasting grading fees and postage and insurance on coins that will not cross. If you are no competent in your grading skills, you should seek someone who is who can give you some guidance.

 

Please keep in mind that crossovers make sense for only two reasons. First, is if you want to sell the coins. NGC and PCGS graded coins do bring higher prices. Second, if you are playing the registry game, your coins will have to be certified to be accepted. Otherwise, why bother? The ICG holder can house a coin just as nicely as those holders that the "big two" use.

 

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HCumberdale

HCumberdale

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About 9 months back I bought a 1909 Barber half graded AU55 by ICG. I forget what I paid for it now, but I felt I was getting a deal, and the coin appeared accurately graded to me. Took it to Summer FUN this year and offerred it to a dealer who asked what I wanted for it - I threw out $50 more than I paid, and he took about 3 seconds before accepting. Sorry no pics :(

 

I definitely think ICG coins are worth looking at, just treat them like any other coin in any other TPG slab...judge the coin regardless of what holder it's in.

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BillJones

BillJones

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About 9 months back I bought a 1909 Barber half graded AU55 by ICG. I forget what I paid for it now, but I felt I was getting a deal, and the coin appeared accurately graded to me. Took it to Summer FUN this year and offerred it to a dealer who asked what I wanted for it - I threw out $50 more than I paid, and he took about 3 seconds before accepting. Sorry no pics :(

 

I definitely think ICG coins are worth looking at, just treat them like any other coin in any other TPG slab...judge the coin regardless of what holder it's in.

 

Yes, for the right price, some ICG coins can be "a deal." The thing is you have to treat it like a raw coin which means grade it, price it and pay what you think it is worth regardless of what it says on the holder.

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

Posted
Posted
Nothing wrong with ICG coins, but if you want to cross them you could just leave them in the holder.

 

I don't think they will cross ICG coins.....but perhaps I am wrong?

 

Correct!

 

PCGS-holdered coins are reviewed for NGC certification. Coins will be removed from their holders only if they can be graded at the same or higher than your specified minimum grade. Specify "ANY" as the minimum grade to have your coin crossed regardless of grade. Specify "DETAILS" to cross coins with detrimental surface conditions. NGC does not accept MS/PF70 coins for CrossOver at the same grade. You may not request a higher minimum grade than is on the current holder. Non-PCGS-holdered coins must be removed from their holders and submitted raw.

 

Chris

 

Apparently, a couple of you did not read the last line of the Crossover information that I posted from the NGC submission guidelines.

 

Chris

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Mark T

Mark T

Posted
Posted
Nothing wrong with ICG coins, but if you want to cross them you could just leave them in the holder.

 

I don't think they will cross ICG coins.....but perhaps I am wrong?

 

Correct!

 

PCGS-holdered coins are reviewed for NGC certification. Coins will be removed from their holders only if they can be graded at the same or higher than your specified minimum grade. Specify "ANY" as the minimum grade to have your coin crossed regardless of grade. Specify "DETAILS" to cross coins with detrimental surface conditions. NGC does not accept MS/PF70 coins for CrossOver at the same grade. You may not request a higher minimum grade than is on the current holder. Non-PCGS-holdered coins must be removed from their holders and submitted raw.

 

Chris

 

Apparently, a couple of you did not read the last line of the Crossover information that I posted from the NGC submission guidelines.

 

Chris

 

Ok this must be somewhat new - say within the last 2 years ?? My 1795 FH was sent to NGC in the VF 30 ICG holder for a cross about 3 years ago . My minimum grade listed was VF 20 - they would not cross it but PCGS was more then happy to give it a VF 20.

 

 

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JIM F.

JIM F.

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Unless ICG slabs counterfeit coins, ICG coins are not equivalent to raw coins.

 

Why would anyone consider ICG slabbed 19th century gold coins equivalent to raw coins?

 

 

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Coindude

Coindude

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Well unfortunately I believe that all of the TPG's have slabbed counterfeit coins. I know of one instance when ICG had slabbed an early dollar. Fortunately for the buyer, a couple of well known dealers came to the aid of the buyer and ICG finally made the deal right.

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MJ

MJ

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Unless ICG slabs counterfeit coins, ICG coins are not equivalent to raw coins.

 

Why would anyone consider ICG slabbed 19th century gold coins equivalent to raw coins?

 

 

Because you have to view the coins as raw it terms of grading. Take a ICG 19th century gold coin around on the bourse and see what you are offered. It will often be the same amount as a raw coin would be. You will likely be offered what the dealer thinks it would grade and not the assigned grade on the holder. MJ

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

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Should I crack them out and submit to NGC/PCGS?

It's not rocket science. Do you want to play in those markets? Then you need the coins in those slabs. If you don't want to play in those markets, then you don't need the coins in those slabs.

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BillJones

BillJones

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Unless ICG slabs counterfeit coins, ICG coins are not equivalent to raw coins.

 

Why would anyone consider ICG slabbed 19th century gold coins equivalent to raw coins?

 

 

From the grading perspective, they are treated as raw coins. You also have to check them for the variety attribution. I've seen some big mistakes in ICG as well as PCGS coins for that matter.

 

Our hosts do a great job with varieties from what I've seen. (thumbs u

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JIM F.

JIM F.

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Let me be more specific. I recently picked up several $5 Indians in ICG MS-62. I know this is a tough series to grade and I won't even try to grade the series. So, any thoughts on how accurate ICG may be on this particular series.

 

Thank You.

 

 

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BROADSTRUCK

BROADSTRUCK

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More then the grading I'd be concerned with if the $5 Indian has been puttied or played with as gold is the only thing in ICG holders I will not buy. I have gotten upgrades on coins and tokens as ICG can be very conservative. Yet getting back to gold... The most amount of molested examples I've seen have been in IGC holders. Do you have any pics to post of your newp?

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JIM F.

JIM F.

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More then the grading I'd be concerned with if the $5 Indian has been puttied or played with as gold is the only thing in ICG holders I will not buy. I have gotten upgrades on coins and tokens as ICG can be very conservative. Yet getting back to gold... The most amount of molested examples I've seen have been in IGC holders. Do you have any pics to post of your newp?
More then the grading I'd be concerned with if the $5 Indian has been puttied or played with as gold is the only thing in ICG holders I will not buy. I have gotten upgrades on coins and tokens as ICG can be very conservative. Yet getting back to gold... The most amount of molested examples I've seen have been in IGC holders. Do you have any pics to post of your newp?

 

They are in transit. Will take pics when in hand. They may be "putty nice".

 

 

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MJ

MJ

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Let me be more specific. I recently picked up several $5 Indians in ICG MS-62. I know this is a tough series to grade and I won't even try to grade the series. So, any thoughts on how accurate ICG may be on this particular series.

 

Thank You.

 

 

To unleash any numismatic value they will need to be blessed buy PCGS or NGC in my humble opinion.

 

MJ

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Coinbuf

Coinbuf

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Let me be more specific. I recently picked up several $5 Indians in ICG MS-62. I know this is a tough series to grade and I won't even try to grade the series. So, any thoughts on how accurate ICG may be on this particular series.

 

Thank You.

 

 

There is no way to say without seeing the coins, the point that most have been trying to make here is that ICG is very loose with grading and holdering problem coins. If you got a great deal there may be a reason for that.

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BillJones

BillJones

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They are in transit. Will take pics when in hand. They may be "putty nice".

 

There is no such thing as "putty nice" because the stuff will change on you after a while and will be ugly. :P

 

The trouble with the $5 Indian series is that the coins almost seem to have been struck in AU. The trouble is the fields, the Indian's cheekbone and the top of the eagle's wing feathers are the highest parts of the coin and took rubs and hits very easily. When I was kid collector in the 1960s that was one major gold type coin that I was never able to locate in what I called Choice Uncirculated or even strict Uncirculated.

 

The best you will get out of this group will probably be some AU-55 and 58 coins. If you get that at low end Mint State money you might do well. What would concern me is that you might get coins with no claims to Mint State and maybe even no claims to AU. I honestly have not spent any time looking at ICG $5 Indians. If they are like some of the other coins I've seen, my expectations would not be that high, especially given the fact as you say, it is a tough series, even for the common dates.

 

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