Do Pamp Suisse bars get released close to spot somewhere?

[mumu]

I know its not a coin question but with no bullion forum here that i can find...

 

Seems the premium on these is thru the roof. For example a 10oz bar I am watching now is bid over 40$ an ounce and the reserve still hasnt been met? I cant believe what people are paying for mass produced art bullion. I can understand really old art bars like the Coke from the 70s or bars from the 1800s but are these being put out by the source at a higher offering price to begin with?

[wheat'swheats]

The U.S. mint does it every day they are called silver eagles

wheat

[erickso1]

You could get one here.

 

But I know nothing of the seller.

[MJ]

You could get one here.

 

But I know nothing of the seller.

 

Provident is fine and their price is about right for the Fortuna Cornucopia bars. MJ

[mumu]

Thanks for the link. I am just very surprised how much of a premium these carry right away while still be made. I would understandif a limited production once sold out but they are basically selling 45-50$ an ounce silver.

[CoinPulsive PCM]

I have searched many times for a bullion site where I can get .999 silver for less than $3.00 over spot.

 

I settled on APMEX.com. I have a dealer account with them so I get charged 1 tier less on bullion.

 

Dealer acct. or not, right now you can buy 1oz. .999 silver APMEX bars for around $1.50 over spot and 1oz .9999 APMEX gold bars for around $35.99 over spot.

 

I don't buy much gold bullion but I sometimes find better pricing on APMEX bullion that I would on Ebay.

 

-Dave

 

 

 

[MJ]

The Fortuna bars are very collectable and generally carry a $10 premium right off of jump street. Mkman123 has a good handle on this market

 

MJ

[mumu]

I have searched many times for a bullion site where I can get .999 silver for less than $3.00 over spot.

 

I settled on APMEX.com. I have a dealer account with them so I get charged 1 tier less on bullion.

 

Dealer acct. or not, right now you can buy 1oz. .999 silver APMEX bars for around $1.50 over spot and 1oz .9999 APMEX gold bars for around $35.99 over spot.

 

I don't buy much gold bullion but I sometimes find better pricing on APMEX bullion that I would on Ebay.

 

-Dave

 

 

 

Yeah their prices always came across as fair to me. And dont get me wrong, I understand that nice bars carry premiums. I just paid a hefty premium for a few Dcarr art bars. But with the Fortunas in particular there seems to be millions of them produced non stop so I just dont get why they are reaching nearly double price premiums and was curious if PAMP themselves is releasing them from the refinery already premiumed.

 

I guess in its simplest form my question would be is the mine/refinery getting more for their silver than other mines, or is this purely an aftermarket premium.

[CoinPulsive PCM]

IMHO, to answer your question on the premiums:

 

I think that the mining companies, refining companies and fronts such as APMEX all contribute to the premium.

 

Think of it from a profiting standpoint. If silver bullion sales are higher than ever and the demand is huge the mining/refining companies probably made an increase to the price of the bullion they produce. Even if the amount if silver being mined has not significantly decreased, why woundn't the "supply" companies take advantage of the demand for silver?

 

Then the companies like Pamp suisse and other bullion retailers would need to pay more to get silver for their use and then the premiums would be higher.

 

I could be wrong. But remember: if silver melt drops from $30.00 to $27.00 overnight, and APMEX recently aquired 5,000 toz. of silver bullion for $28.00/toz, do you think they want to take a huge loss of profit by reducing the price of their inventory? Silver bullion retailers aren't like Walmart. If one store has 5,000 Hotwheels cars from 2011 and a shipment of 4,000 2012 Hotwheels cars are ariving in a month, Walmart can put all 5,000 toys on Clearance for $1.00. S

ilver retailers can't do that kind of thing.

 

-Dave

[mumu]

Your answer is true of any bar at any price at any time. It doesnt really answer anything.

 

I realize the answer is supply and demand. But I question the supply part. These seem to be readily available for years now. There is no rarity to them. They are nice but are they really 2x spot nice while production is still going on? If these had been minted in the 80s and stopped I could understand it. So my question is are they leaving the PAMP at spot and inflated at distribution or does PAMP start them off at a premium? There are bars that can be had at 1$ over from ampex. Silvertown and Scottsdale for example fetch far less. But are subject to the same parameters as you detailed above as are the PAMPs. I just dont understand the willingness to pay so much for these.

[newprepper]

Just my own theory, the items that are more liquid,ie. eagles, gold or silver, pamp suisse, englehards, etc carry the highest premium because of the liquidity, if you were on the barter system and somebody came to you with a generic round that had .999 fine on it would you automatically accept it? probably not, but if they had the easy to id stuff you would be more willing to accept

[MJ]

These are art bars and not bullion. PAMP is an acronym for: Produits Artistiques de Métaux Précieux - Artistic products of Precious Metals.The designs are changed periodically. They are beautiful. They have a large collector base. They leave Pamp Suisse at huge premiums.You are not going to find them much below spot + $8.50 and that's in quantity. Some Fortuna's are "more scarce" and demand larger premiums.

 

MJ

[mumu]

Thanks MJ, youve cleared it up pretty well. Is there a website that tracks the generations of them the way slabs are tracked?

[MJ]

You know I tried digging that up once and was unsuccessful. Engelhard and J&M info is also hard to pin point.

 

Pamp Suisse does have a site wth limited info.

 

MJ

[MJ]

I just realized that you said 10 0z silver. I'm like 98% sure they didn't make 10 oz silver bars until very recently. I know lots of collectors that were inquiring about them including me. Interesting. Do a search ATS on the Precious Metals Forum on "Fortuna". There are a couple threads on the subject.

 

MJ

[mumu]

I just realized that you said 10 0z silver. I'm like 98% sure they didn't make 10 oz silver bars until very recently. I know lots of collectors that were inquiring about them including me. Interesting. Do a search ATS on the Precious Metals Forum on "Fortuna". There are a couple threads on the subject.

 

MJ

 

Well my curiosity is about the bars in general regardless of weight. I just happened to use the 10oz bar as an example here.

[MJ]

Here is a somewhat helpful page on Engelhard bars

 

MJ

[mkman123]

MJ, thanks I used to know a lot about bars, old pours, etc however being out of that market and focusing more on numismatics, I have been out of touch with prices hhahah

[mumu]

Well after looking around and ending up on the PAMP store site, if you wanted 1 single 1 ounce silver bar from them youd be paying 80$ for the ounce.

[mikeg286]

 

 

 

 

 

So theres your answer mumu.The pamp suisse bars come out of the box with a hefty premium because they are well known,well accepted and considered an art bar.I paid a high premium for a few 1 oz dragon pamp bars but I enjoy them so its ok.

[rpmadskilz]

Best Bullion site hands down is the Gainesvillecoins.com. They have the lowest premiums that I've been able to find on the web. I've also used providentmetals.com and found them to be very reasonable with good customer service.