Proof or Not? posted by davidk

[CSJournals-migration]

Opinions Please!

 

I need to know opinions as to whether this coin is Proof or MS as graded before I send it back for mechanical error. I have asked several coin dealers here in Washington State that seem to think it is an MS. However, there are others including a member of this society who need not respond or be named that believe it to be a proof. Honestly, I've had my doubts as the obverse looks proofish but the reverse looks MSish, especially in the sun. I do not want to waste my money or time sending it in if there isn't a need and definitely don't want to lose a top pop coin unless it really is mislabeled.

 

See more journals by davidk

[Ultra Cameo Collection]

I say its a proof, although if it is a proof and its only a PF67 it may not be worth much anyways. You may want to get Lehigh's opinion on this as he has a very nice MS Jefferson set.

 

All the letters seem a little too cameo'd to be a business strike.

 

Maybe a MS67 PL?

 

 

[RWB]

Misprinted label?

[e1cnr]

proof

 

the pics on the cert verification make it obvious

the steps are just too nice for 1960 MS

 

your submission or bought?

 

$10 coin, not hundreds

[mt1missile-migration]

The coin was given to me a while back and I sent it in to be graded. I've always had suspicions that the coin is a proof but NGC labeled it MS. As I stated before, I don't really collect nickels and was shocked to see the grade. In a way I knew it was too good to be true. Even this "proof" doesn't have full steps.

[mt1missile-migration]

These pictures were taken by Lehigh. He says it is a proof and I tend to believe it as that was my first impression. However, I do have a few dealer/collectors saying they think it is MS. Is there possibly a Proof/MS hybrid? This coin is weird to say the least. I have compared it to known proofs the dealers have and it is similar but not near as bright and the edges aren't as sharp. Compared to known still in the cello MS nickels it is a few shades brighter. Could it possibly be bad proof or as stated by someone else a mysteriously good MS? Either way, I think I'm going to send it back for review!

[jayman1970]

could it be similar to a type B quarter,MS coin made with discarded proof die or dies??

[coinman_23885]

It's a proof. I wouldn't bother sending it back in to fix the mechanical error; the coin is not worth the shipping costs to have it relabeled. Enjoy it as a TPG error.

[Six Mile Rick]

Looking through the best sets in the club with MS66 and MS66* and coming back to your pic-----PROOF for sure. I was a little interested as I don't have much knowledge in the nickles and never noticed the half v in FIvE CENTS. How many years did they do that??? Lehigh's nickle (same year) had the full V and others had the small.

[mt1missile-migration]

I just have to say that after some research and looking at many different 1960 Nickels, it is a proof and not even a good one at that. It has however given me an urge to find a true MS 67 or even one that has full steps. I may have to look at hundreds of duds but I will find it.

[mt1missile-migration]

P.S. Lehigh, What are you using to take these pictures?

[mkman123]

lehigh is an expert when it comes to jeffs. Looks like a proof and a pretty one

[lehigh96]

P.S. Lehigh, What are you using to take these pictures?

 

Believe it or not, I use a Canon SD 880 IS Point & Shoot with two fluorescent lights and a copy stand. Here is an oversized photo of the reverse.

 

 

Although the coin does not display 6FS, it does clearly have 5FS. NGC has only ever graded two 1960 nickels with 5FS and the highest graded coin is MS66 5FS. IN addition, they have only graded 7 coins MS67. They have never graded a 1960 nickel as PL. Those statistics alone make it almost certain this coin is a proof.

 

I think the fact that the coin has full steps but is not designated as 5FS on the label is very telling. The TPG's don't recognize full steps on proof coins. Since this coin is clearly 5FS, it stands to reason that it was meant to be graded PF67 but was graded MS67 as a mechanical error.

 

The obverse can be deceptive at first glance since the mirrors are not especially strong and it doesn't have full cameo contrast. But when you view the surfaces of the fields under magnification, it becomes evident that the coin is a proof. I think the slab photos show the proof nature of the coin the best.

 

[chunk-it]

A proof for sure. The sad thing is, Someone would pay money just for the label on their registry. And that's exactly what I would do with it.

[Ultra Cameo Collection]

So you are that someone? calling yourself sad?

 

You might want to offer the owner money for this coin and then try to list it on ebay for 3 or 4 times what you paid.

[coinman_23885]

A proof for sure. The sad thing is, Someone would pay money just for the label on their registry. And that's exactly what I would do with it.

 

So as long as it is disclosed that the coin is a proof (rather than prospective buyers assuming that the photographs may not be representative of the coin in hand), I do not have a problem with this at all. This is precisely what I would do.

[Thane]

You could sell that as a TPG labeling error on the 'bay for over $100. Someone would take the registry score ... or someone would simply enjoy the novelty of owning a TPG error.

 

I sold an ordinary 1950's 50c PF mislabeled as 10c in a $0.99 no reserve 'bay auction, I think it sold in the $50's.

 

Interesting on the small V in FIvE. Probably restricted to proof dies. Lehigh?

 

Agree with the steps consensus. Finding even better than 3 steps is 1000-1 odds for the date - MS coins have those quality steps only since the 1980's ... or in the '40's.

 

Great conversation topic!

[chunk-it]

Misspoke. I would sell it for that reason. Would never add to my registry!!!

[lehigh96]

You could sell that as a TPG labeling error on the 'bay for over $100. Someone would take the registry score ... or someone would simply enjoy the novelty of owning a TPG error.

 

I sold an ordinary 1950's 50c PF mislabeled as 10c in a $0.99 no reserve 'bay auction, I think it sold in the $50's.

 

Interesting on the small V in FIvE. Probably restricted to proof dies. Lehigh?

 

Agree with the steps consensus. Finding even better than 3 steps is 1000-1 odds for the date - MS coins have those quality steps only since the 1980's ... or in the '40's.

 

Great conversation topic!

 

I don't collect proof Jeffersons but I have never seen that little v on a mint state Jefferson so I will assume that it is a proof variety.

[Broke-Daddy]

As someone previously stated, it could be a recycled proof die, but I lean toward a very early strike of a coin that was destined for the 1960 Unc. Mint Set.. I have several coins with a similar appearance, I just put them into their slot in a Dansco.