Cleaned or Not

[moondoggy]

A prime example

 

Is it cleaned or not

 

We have discussed this subject in the past and some less experienced collectors wanted to know how to tell a cleaned coin from one that is not. I know photos are not as good as actually having one in your hand but this is a pretty good example. I found this on E-Bay in a listing from a very reputable seller whom I have had multiple dealings with over the years and they are very trustworthy. In fact they list this Morgan as being cleaned. I always tell new collectors to look for hairlines in the field as a tipoff that the coin demands closer visual inspection.

Here is the item number. Just copy and paste this number into the search bar on E-Bay

 

270935821577

 

the hairlines are pretty obvious in the photos. I have seen some other sellers on E-Bay that were selling similar coins, not be so upfront in the description.

 

Mike (moondoggy)

 

See more journals by moondoggy

[coinsbygary]

I agree with the seller's assessment. The hairlines in the picture and in particular in the field behind Lady Liberty's neck are obvious in that they are parallel lines that begin and end in the field. Had these been die polish marks they would not have been incuse and the would end right where the device begins. Marks like this could have come from rubbing with an eraser.

Gary

[Ultra Cameo Collection]

I have purchased a few coins from them, some of their pictures depict the coin better than it looks in hand and others it looked better in person.

 

I bought a 1900 proof indian head cent from them and I still cannot get that coin to look like it does in the picture no matter what light I use. Its like they used some magic alien lightbeam and then somehow took it out of the image. Nice coin anyways but it was way more brown than the picture showed.

 

They deal mostly in raw coins and its always buyer beware on raw coins.

[moondoggy]

If you purchase a coin from them and do not like it, you can return for full refund, no problems. I have even returned a coin that didn't grade as high as they listed (gem) and had no problem whatsoever and this was after 25 days. They are fantastic to work with. As to the color of a coin, the chances you can duplicate the exact parameters they used to shoot their photo's are slim and none. Believe me I have tried, I have even gotten close on a few occasion. They will work with you on any purchase, with your satisfaction being priority number with them.

[Six Mile Rick]

I will have to confess that I too have purchased a few Raw coins and sent them in for grading and they got the PURPLE slab. Of course there is NO room for DETAILS coins in my sets. I know there are coins that I will never own due to that decision but it is what it is.

When I got the details --- cleaned or whatever, I just popped them out and resold them where I purchased them. I wonder sometimes, how many times those coins actually get sold and re graded as detailed coins.

 

Later---Rick

[TD Henson]

I'm in agreement that this coin was cleaned, especially above the eagle - it appears that a fair amount of "dirt" was in this area. Lots of hairlines going strainght from left to right, which is still very evident in and around "States of", "In God We Trust" and the eagle. I'm not an expert with Morgan's but these are the rules I go by on other series.

 

 

[Yankeejose]

Thanks for the great example- after I got my first MS details coin back from the grading company I went through my older silver coin purchases and found 4 or 5 that had this same issue. Luckily I did not pay that much for them so I am replacing them in my raw collection. Lessons learned are fine- as long as we do not make the same mistakes again!

[Mark T]

This is funny – you think GSC is a reputable seller ?? They are one of the biggest offenders on EBAY – most of the raw stuff they sell is cleaned or has other issues . The grades they assign are a total joke,their pictures are juiced up to hide flaws. EBAY has a huge pool of clueless coin buyers so sellers like GSC have a huge market. Sometimes they will make note of a problem with a coin – most of the time they do not. I have firsthand experience with these guys many year ago – the only good thing I can say about them is they do have a no questions asked return policy – the buyer is just out the postage.

Moondog – how many coins from GSC have you sent to a TGP for grading ??

 

[moondoggy]

I couldn't disagree with you more. I have purchased from them for over 4 years without any problems whatsoever. In fact one of my top pop Franklins came from them in raw state. Since you didn't state any specific problem but just a general assessment it really sounds like a sour grape story. I would be interested to read what problem(s) you had with this company and what steps you took to correct it in order for you to state your displeasure with this company. As we all know, not every purchase is going to be a positive. We deal in a subjective hobby......

[Mark T]

I couldn't disagree with you more. I have purchased from them for over 4 years without any problems whatsoever. In fact one of my top pop Franklins came from them in raw state. Since you didn't state any specific problem but just a general assessment it really sounds like a sour grape story. I would be interested to read what problem(s) you had with this company and what steps you took to correct it in order for you to state your displeasure with this company. As we all know, not every purchase is going to be a positive. We deal in a subjective hobby......

 

First off you did not answer my question – how many did you send off to a TPG to be graded ?? I think the answer is going to be none.

You have not been here long enough to know me, but those who have understand I know what I am talking about when it comes to GSC.

However seeing that you asked I will show you.

I added single pictures of the 1929 SLQ so you can see a prime example of how they often overgrade by as much as 6 points. CH Gem BU should be at least MS 65 .

 

1829 Bust Half – graded by GSC as Choice Au +++/ Unc – coin at best Au 50 .

1929 – SLQ graded by GSC as CH Gem + near Superb BU FH – coin was at best Au 58.

1905- S $ Graded by GSC as near Gem Bu – came back from ANACS as Au details wire brush cleaned. I knew it was cleaned but sent in anyway.

1907 – D graded by GSC as Choice Bu +++ near Gem BU – Came back from ANacs as Au 58.

I sent the Bust and SLQ back to GSC , kept the gold coins because the price paid was for an Au 58 grade. This is a perfect example of gross misrepresentation of a coins condition. Naturally the coins looked great in the GCS pictures; in hand the issues were obvious.

You can have your opinion but you are not going to get many if any who will agree with you that GCS is a reputable EBAY dealer,

[Mark T]

Here is a close up of the 1905 -s .Very obvious it was cleaned from my photo - you could see it in the GSC photos as well but at the time I did not know better. Once again I should have sent it back but the price was low enough where I decided not to. I had just started to collect coins again after a long break so I was a bit on the rusty side of things. I would never keep something like this now.

 

Top 2 are the GSC juiced up photos , bottom 2 are mine and what the coin really looked like.

 

I hope I made my point .

 

FYI - my dealings with GSC were 4 years ago ago , however I check out their auctions from time to time and see that not enough has changed over the years.

[moondoggy]

Man what is your problem ???? I made a post about a cleaned coin and you got your tail feathers all curled up....

 

 

Don't come crying to me that they misrepresented their coins. You don't like them, fine, then don't buy from them again.

[Mark T]

Man what is your problem ???? I made a post about a cleaned coin and you got your tail feathers all curled up....

I stated an opinion about a seller that was my opinion and you don't like it and go off on a tangent then challenge me ?????? Not in my lifetime !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could give a mess that you agree or not with my opinion but what gives you the right to challenge my opinion. I don't answer to you and especially not with an attitude that you have just displayed to all here.

Don't come crying to me that they misrepresented their coins. You don't like them, fine, then don't buy from them again. But don't try to make me think your opinion weighs more than mine or anyone else here. On an ending note if you want to state something, try writing your own journals instead of piggybacking on others.

 

Sensitive subject there pal ?? Do a poll here and see how many people like GSC. If you want to purchase their raw coins that is your business. Like I said I doubt you even submitted any of them to a TPG – if you did then maybe you would not be defending them when they came back in a details holder or 5 grade points below what they claimed. Read my post, I purchased from them once 4 years ago when I did not know any better.

The coins were bad. One reason people post hear is to educate others about the pitfalls of this hobby. I gave solid examples of why I think GSC is not a reputable dealer, do you think those coins were accurately graded ? Instead you jump down my throat when you should be thanking me for showing solid examples of over graded problem coins. I don’t write journals – this is a discussion board – if you don’t want someone commenting on your topic then stop posting and go away.