GRADING IS OUT OF CONTROL

[wheat'swheats]

I just attempted to bid at auction for a Lincoln I wanted and the reserve was astronomical and it because of a +. I sat and thought about this and realized things have gone crazy. When I first started collecting in 1958, in unc. coins there were 3 different grades. Unc., brilliant unc and choice unc. Now you have 10 grades from 60 to 70, then if you add a + you have 20 , if you add a star you have 30 and that is just unc.The reserve on the coin I was looking at jumped from the usual $1000 to $1200 in the grade to $4000. Is it ever going to stop?

[e1cnr]

not as long as people will pay premiums for these grades

[PerryHall]

I just attempted to bid at auction for a Lincoln I wanted and the reserve was astronomical and it because of a +. I sat and thought about this and realized things have gone crazy. When I first started collecting in 1958, in unc. coins there were 3 different grades. Unc., brilliant unc and choice unc. Now you have 10 grades from 60 to 70, then if you add a + you have 20 , if you add a star you have 30 and that is just unc.The reserve on the coin I was looking at jumped from the usual $1000 to $1200 in the grade to $4000. Is it ever going to stop?

 

Actually there are 11 grades from 60 to 70.

[bluel-migration]

Wait for the LCD displays on slabs showing real-time population data or registry rankings. (patent pending, me)

[MarkFeld]

The "+" grade might or might not be the reason for the seemingly very high reserve.

 

I see numerous coins at each show and auction, which have absurd asking or reserve prices. And those prices, have little to do with the assigned grade.

[Kamillion]

isnt this what u want?? coin prices to go up?

[wheat'swheats]

of course when I am selling, just not when buying

[Kamillion]

hopefully they stop here. i have no basis for comparison, but i like the way things are now.

[wheat'swheats]

It's not that I "dislike', but you can only split that hair so far.Unless it gets to the point that they are able to tell you that the origional surface is two atoms thicker on one as opposed to another.

[RWB]

I bet there are more "MS-69" gems in old Whitman folders than in all the plastic slabs -- and they are all worth exactly the same $$.

[Kenneth F]

Yea.. the prices are going out of control. Just in the last few years ive seen prices skyrocket. Everybody wants a massive premium for stars and +'s.

[James_OldeTowne]

I just attempted to bid at auction for a Lincoln I wanted and the reserve was astronomical and it because of a +. I sat and thought about this and realized things have gone crazy. When I first started collecting in 1958, in unc. coins there were 3 different grades. Unc., brilliant unc and choice unc. Now you have 10 grades from 60 to 70, then if you add a + you have 20 , if you add a star you have 30 and that is just unc.The reserve on the coin I was looking at jumped from the usual $1000 to $1200 in the grade to $4000. Is it ever going to stop?

Don't let the power of plastic control what you do. It may affect your decisions, and that's OK, but if you let slabs control you, then grading isn't "out of control"... it's IN control (of you).

 

I have many coins in slabs, far more not in slabs, and I pretty much like all of them. I DO NOT let certification affect my enjoyment of collecting, not in the slightest.

[wheat'swheats]

The slab does not control me, when I was told what the reserve was I just let it slide. There will be one some where down the road with a no reserve or one that the reserve is not more than the coin is worth..

[Raisethis2]

I agree that when people see a * or a + they do overbid at times but the old adage that you should buy the coin, not the slab, applies. I almost prefer to buy coins raw but now a days you have to be extra careful because so many coins have been "handled" to the point where flaws are everywhere.

 

[coinman_23885]

I think it goes well beyond pluses and stars. Look at the ridiculous premiums that some gold bean CAC certified coins are bringing. For instance, I saw a MS63 PCGS OGH common date Morgan Dollar that really appeared to be a MS64 selling for $311 (auction still running). That's more than a 65, and you could probably pick up a 66 for that much! To me the problem is collectors not being able to think for themselves and relying too heavily on someone else to do determine what is good (largely because they don't know enough and won't take the time to research their "investment" choices).

[michael]

look at what you are bidding on and bid as high as you are comfortable

 

and be impressed with what the winners pay for whatever reasons known or unknown

 

and seek other venues for coins that meet your combo of sight seen approval and price range

 

but

 

if you are always out priced then you might need to raise your buy prices

 

 

 

and

 

this might tell you many things with which you might learn more about your collecting parameters

 

good luck

[Crohnos01]

I think it goes well beyond pluses and stars. Look at the ridiculous premiums that some gold bean CAC certified coins are bringing. For instance, I saw a MS63 PCGS OGH common date Morgan Dollar that really appeared to be a MS64 selling for $311 (auction still running). That's more than a 65, and you could probably pick up a 66 for that much! To me the problem is collectors not being able to think for themselves and relying too heavily on someone else to do determine what is good (largely because they don't know enough and won't take the time to research their "investment" choices).

 

You took the words right out of my mouth....

[James_OldeTowne]

I think it goes well beyond pluses and stars. Look at the ridiculous premiums that some gold bean CAC certified coins are bringing. For instance, I saw a MS63 PCGS OGH common date Morgan Dollar that really appeared to be a MS64 selling for $311 (auction still running). That's more than a 65, and you could probably pick up a 66 for that much! To me the problem is collectors not being able to think for themselves and relying too heavily on someone else to do determine what is good (largely because they don't know enough and won't take the time to research their "investment" choices).

You took the words right out of my mouth....

Well put, for sure.

[wheat'swheats]

I just attempted to bid at auction for a Lincoln I wanted and the reserve was astronomical and it because of a +. I sat and thought about this and realized things have gone crazy. When I first started collecting in 1958, in unc. coins there were 3 different grades. Unc., brilliant unc and choice unc. Now you have 10 grades from 60 to 70, then if you add a + you have 20 , if you add a star you have 30 and that is just unc.The reserve on the coin I was looking at jumped from the usual $1000 to $1200 in the grade to $4000. Is it ever going to stop?

Just so everyone knows this was a common date coin that in this grade will usually sells at $1200 max retail, at hertiage the last time one went up it was just over $900 with bp. Now I am not cheap when it comes to lincolns, but not crazy either. I placed a bid of $1200 because the coin was really nice and I wanted it to upgrade mine from a 67 to a little better looking (not much) coin. When my bid was placed and I was notified that I had not reached reserve, I thought how much more can it be so I called the owner and asked if he would tell me the reserve. He did , and boy was I blown away 4 X the retail price. I don't mind paying for an exceptional coin, but 4x retail! Give me a break.

[jom]

I think it goes well beyond pluses and stars. Look at the ridiculous premiums that some gold bean CAC certified coins are bringing. For instance, I saw a MS63 PCGS OGH common date Morgan Dollar that really appeared to be a MS64 selling for $311 (auction still running). That's more than a 65, and you could probably pick up a 66 for that much! To me the problem is collectors not being able to think for themselves and relying too heavily on someone else to do determine what is good (largely because they don't know enough and won't take the time to research their "investment" choices).

You took the words right out of my mouth....

Well put, for sure.

 

+5

 

The more green beans, plus signs, strike designations, grading "precision" and other non-sense we have the more the collector/buyer seems to rely on OPO (other people's opinions). BTW, it is a very hard habit to break as I have difficulties myself...especially trying to value "eye appeal" premiums and whatnot.

 

jom

[Kenneth F]

I forgot to mention the beans... those drive me crazy as well.. and some give me gas.

 

 

[CyberspaceVoid]

I bet there are more "MS-69" gems in old Whitman folders than in all the plastic slabs -- and they are all worth exactly the same $$.

 

I need to check my old Whitman's

[Oldtrader3]

It is a multi-modal market now. This price modality means that some popular issues have skyrocketed in price because demand is vastly outstripping supply of coins in the particular grade range of most collectors (ie: early date WLH's). These large price increases are occuring at the same time that some other series are selling for the similar prices to those that they sold for prior to 2008 when the coin market started a price correction with the economy.

 

Personally, I have just decided to concentrate of classic coins which are scarce enough to not generate a lot of hoopla and interest from promoting by dealers. There are quite a few series which fit this category of being somewhat behind the market, quiet and priced at similar levels to those that these coins sold for several years ago.

 

Do the research and I bet that you can find many series which the potential to attract your collecting interests and do so at prices which cause much less heartburn than some of the more popular, heavily promoted series do because of competition in auctions.

[wheat'swheats]

It is a multi-modal market now. This price modality means that some popular issues have skyrocketed in price because demand is vastly outstripping supply of coins in the particular grade range of most collectors (ie: early date WLH's). These large price increases are occuring at the same time that some other series are selling for the similar prices to those that they sold for prior to 2008 when the coin market started a price correction with the economy.

 

Personally, I have just decided to concentrate of classic coins which are scarce enough to not generate a lot of hoopla and interest from promoting by dealers. There are quite a few series which fit this category of being somewhat behind the market, quiet and priced at similar levels to those that these coins sold for several years ago.

 

Do the research and I bet that you can find many series which the potential to attract your collecting interests and do so at prices which cause much less heartburn than some of the more popular, heavily promoted series do because of competition in auctions.

The problem is that I have had a love for the Lincoln cent since I was 9 years old.

[BillJones]

I just attempted to bid at auction for a Lincoln I wanted and the reserve was astronomical and it because of a +. I sat and thought about this and realized things have gone crazy. When I first started collecting in 1958, in unc. coins there were 3 different grades. Unc., brilliant unc and choice unc. Now you have 10 grades from 60 to 70, then if you add a + you have 20 , if you add a star you have 30 and that is just unc.The reserve on the coin I was looking at jumped from the usual $1000 to $1200 in the grade to $4000. Is it ever going to stop?

 

It all depends upon what Lincoln cent you wanted to buy. Without more information I can't help you.

 

The days of simplistic “tri level” Mint State coin grading have been gone for more than a generation. I’ve been buying coins from dealers since the mid 1960s and started pushing cents into a Whitman “penny board” in late 1959, so I’ve been around for almost as long as you have. If you want to buy expensive material, you are going to have to go with the flow.

 

Certification holders can prevent you from making some mistakes, but there is not substitute for knowledge. Mint State coins in some series have become very expensive, and part of it has to do with the Internet which has drawn a lot more collectors, investors and speculators into the hobby. You don’t need to buy the ultra high grade material to enjoy the hobby. Check out my type sets which include a lot of coins in “high end” collectors’ grades.

 

I’ll try to help you now and then on this site if you like, but sadly the “good old days” are gone, and some aspect of those days were not as good as some collectors remember them

 

[wheat'swheats]

I just attempted to bid at auction for a Lincoln I wanted and the reserve was astronomical and it because of a +. I sat and thought about this and realized things have gone crazy. When I first started collecting in 1958, in unc. coins there were 3 different grades. Unc., brilliant unc and choice unc. Now you have 10 grades from 60 to 70, then if you add a + you have 20 , if you add a star you have 30 and that is just unc.The reserve on the coin I was looking at jumped from the usual $1000 to $1200 in the grade to $4000. Is it ever going to stop?

 

It all depends upon what Lincoln cent you wanted to buy. Without more information I can't help you.

 

The days of simplistic “tri level” Mint State coin grading have been gone for more than a generation. I’ve been buying coins from dealers since the mid 1960s and started pushing cents into a Whitman “penny board” in late 1959, so I’ve been around for almost as long as you have. If you want to buy expensive material, you are going to have to go with the flow.

 

Certification holders can prevent you from making some mistakes, but there is not substitute for knowledge. Mint State coins in some series have become very expensive, and part of it has to do with the Internet which has drawn a lot more collectors, investors and speculators into the hobby. You don’t need to buy the ultra high grade material to enjoy the hobby. Check out my type sets which include a lot of coins in “high end” collectors’ grades.

 

I’ll try to help you now and then on this site if you like, but sadly the “good old days” are gone, and some aspect of those days were not as good as some collectors remember them

I've been going with the flow, but my innertube is about to spring a leak with these prices..

wheat