Shaking my head in disgust

[dimefreak]

What a joke of a thread.Transparent BS.

 

What a bunch of posturing.

 

MJ

 

Ill admit I had to google "posturing"...... But what a word to sum up the thread

[MJ]

What a joke of a thread.Transparent BS.

 

What a bunch of posturing.

 

MJ

 

Ill admit I had to google "posturing"...... But what a word to sum up the thread

 

I believe the OP was posturing. Just sayin. MJ

[dimefreak]

What a joke of a thread.Transparent BS.

 

What a bunch of posturing.

 

MJ

 

Ill admit I had to google "posturing"...... But what a word to sum up the thread

 

I believe the OP was posturing. Just sayin. MJ

 

And I dont really care. Just saying

 

I see things the way I see them. Everybody cries foul for AT coins but when somebody "popular" pulls it all of a sudden it becomes okay. Nope, sorry my mind dont work that way.

[MarkFeld]

What a joke of a thread.Transparent BS.

 

What a bunch of posturing.

 

MJ

 

Ill admit I had to google "posturing"...... But what a word to sum up the thread

 

I believe the OP was posturing. Just sayin. MJ

 

And I dont really care. Just saying

 

I see things the way I see them. Everybody cries foul for AT coins but when somebody "popular" pulls it all of a sudden it becomes okay. Nope, sorry my mind dont work that way.

 

I wont speak for others, but my objections to your tone and posts to this thread have nothing to do with who the seller is or how "popular" he is.

[Kurtdog]

All I know is without that slab this whole lot wouldn't fetch more than a double-sawbuck from most collectors I know, if it could even get that. No wonder the TPGs love these arbitrary standards, look at how much their word alone on these is worth!

 

In other words, the method of presentation of the offer to sell is good marketing, without spending money to encapsulate all of the them. Something to do with more profit for a business, I guess.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

The inference in this listing is that the other tarnished coins will make the "NT grade," as well, as they're all from the same, 100%-positive-feedback, trusted seller. My point is that when we're accepting these arbitrary standards by which to judge the gradability of tarnished coins, this is the kind of craziness we end up with. The TPGs are always the final word on same, as it's impossible for rational people to apply arbitrary standards. Get your tarnished coins in slabs, now, if you know what's good for them, as, your opinion means nothing. That's where we're at, now, on tarnished coins, accepting playing by these arbitrary standards.

[fossilchaser]

Wellllllllll.... Here is the fact. the one in the slab and the other 37 all came from the same bag. So if one is good they all are and if one is cooked they all are. If these don't sell I an going to display them at my table at the philly ana. then you all can come and inspect them. I just have one request. If you think I am lying, have the courtesy and fortitude to say it to my face. My name is David Siebert. My table will be listed as U S Collectors Advocates

[dimefreak]

Wellllllllll.... Here is the fact. the one in the slab and the other 37 all came from the same bag. So if one is good they all are and if one is cooked they all are. If these don't sell I an going to display them at my table at the philly ana. then you all can come and inspect them. I just have one request. If you think I am lying, have the courtesy and fortitude to say it to my face. My name is David Siebert. My table will be listed as U S Collectors Advocates

 

Your in luck....... With Mark Felds assistance I have chosen the Philly ANA to be my one major show of the year.

 

Cheers (thumbs u

[dimefreak]

What a joke of a thread.Transparent BS.

 

What a bunch of posturing.

 

MJ

 

Ill admit I had to google "posturing"...... But what a word to sum up the thread

 

I believe the OP was posturing. Just sayin. MJ

 

And I dont really care. Just saying

 

I see things the way I see them. Everybody cries foul for AT coins but when somebody "popular" pulls it all of a sudden it becomes okay. Nope, sorry my mind dont work that way.

 

I wont speak for others, but my objections to your tone and posts to this thread have nothing to do with who the seller is or how "popular" he is.

 

Mark I imagine you are right. Maybe my tone is a little over the top.I am not the best at wording things I suppose. I really hope I haven't offended anyone in the process. I do actually have a question for you. If a PNG dealer was to list the auction in question, under the new definition of coin doctor, would the said seller be stripped of his PNG dealer status?

 

 

Cheers (thumbs u

[jerseycat10]

What a joke of a thread.Transparent BS.

 

What a bunch of posturing.

 

MJ

 

Ill admit I had to google "posturing"...... But what a word to sum up the thread

 

I believe the OP was posturing. Just sayin. MJ

 

And I dont really care. Just saying

 

I see things the way I see them. Everybody cries foul for AT coins but when somebody "popular" pulls it all of a sudden it becomes okay. Nope, sorry my mind dont work that way.

 

I wont speak for others, but my objections to your tone and posts to this thread have nothing to do with who the seller is or how "popular" he is.

 

Mark I imagine you are right. Maybe my tone is a little over the top.I am not the best at wording things I suppose. I really hope I haven't offended anyone in the process. I do actually have a question for you. If a PNG dealer was to list the auction in question, under the new definition of coin doctor, would the said seller be stripped of his PNG dealer status?

 

 

Cheers (thumbs u

 

Are you implying the seller is a coin doctor?

[jerseycat10]

Wellllllllll.... Here is the fact. the one in the slab and the other 37 all came from the same bag. So if one is good they all are and if one is cooked they all are. If these don't sell I an going to display them at my table at the philly ana. then you all can come and inspect them. I just have one request. If you think I am lying, have the courtesy and fortitude to say it to my face. My name is David Siebert. My table will be listed as U S Collectors Advocates

 

I will be there as well, and it would be my privelege to view these coins.

 

I for one, cannot determine via the eBay picture whether the coins appear AT or not, and I prefer not to cast judgement regarding the same, especially on a public message board in all caps.

[coinman_23885]

All I know is without that slab this whole lot wouldn't fetch more than a double-sawbuck from most collectors I know, if it could even get that. No wonder the TPGs love these arbitrary standards, look at how much their word alone on these is worth!

 

In other words, the method of presentation of the offer to sell is good marketing, without spending money to encapsulate all of the them. Something to do with more profit for a business, I guess.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

The inference in this listing is that the other tarnished coins will make the "NT grade," as well, as they're all from the same, 100%-positive-feedback, trusted seller. My point is that when we're accepting these arbitrary standards by which to judge the gradability of tarnished coins, this is the kind of craziness we end up with. The TPGs are always the final word on same, as it's impossible for rational people to apply arbitrary standards. Get your tarnished coins in slabs, now, if you know what's good for them, as, your opinion means nothing. That's where we're at, now, on tarnished coins, accepting playing by these arbitrary standards.

 

Your inference (or rather assumption) is deeply misguided. Moreover, the seller explicitly states in the listing that he does not offer an opinion on the gradeability of the other 37 coins. In fact, if inferences are permissible/justifiable, I would infer that the seller at least questions whether they will slab. Please note that this comment is not suggesting that the coins are AT/NT or what have you (the services do reject some NT coins, I'm sure).

 

[jom]

The inference in this listing is that the other tarnished coins will make the "NT grade," as well, as they're all from the same, 100%-positive-feedback, trusted seller. My point is that when we're accepting these arbitrary standards by which to judge the gradability of tarnished coins, this is the kind of craziness we end up with. The TPGs are always the final word on same, as it's impossible for rational people to apply arbitrary standards. Get your tarnished coins in slabs, now, if you know what's good for them, as, your opinion means nothing. That's where we're at, now, on tarnished coins, accepting playing by these arbitrary standards.

 

Your inference (or rather assumption) is deeply misguided. Moreover, the seller explicitly states in the listing that he does not offer an opinion on the gradeability of the other 37 coins. In fact, if inferences are permissible/justifiable, I would infer that the seller at least questions whether they will slab. Please note that this comment is not suggesting that the coins are AT/NT or what have you (the services do reject some NT coins, I'm sure).

 

+ 2

 

jom

[lehigh96]

Wellllllllll.... Here is the fact. the one in the slab and the other 37 all came from the same bag. So if one is good they all are and if one is cooked they all are. If these don't sell I an going to display them at my table at the philly ana. then you all can come and inspect them. I just have one request. If you think I am lying, have the courtesy and fortitude to say it to my face. My name is David Siebert. My table will be listed as U S Collectors Advocates

 

For years I have been unable to attend major coin shows due to my job. Now that I am unemployed and live in New Jersey, I plan to make the Philly show my first. I will certainly stop by to see your toned Lincolns.

[dimefreak]

What a joke of a thread.Transparent BS.

 

What a bunch of posturing.

 

MJ

 

Ill admit I had to google "posturing"...... But what a word to sum up the thread

 

I believe the OP was posturing. Just sayin. MJ

 

And I dont really care. Just saying

 

I see things the way I see them. Everybody cries foul for AT coins but when somebody "popular" pulls it all of a sudden it becomes okay. Nope, sorry my mind dont work that way.

 

I wont speak for others, but my objections to your tone and posts to this thread have nothing to do with who the seller is or how "popular" he is.

 

Mark I imagine you are right. Maybe my tone is a little over the top.I am not the best at wording things I suppose. I really hope I haven't offended anyone in the process. I do actually have a question for you. If a PNG dealer was to list the auction in question, under the new definition of coin doctor, would the said seller be stripped of his PNG dealer status?

 

 

Cheers (thumbs u

 

Are you implying the seller is a coin doctor?

 

1. re-label “coin doctor” as “cosmetic alteration”, or some similar less-polarizing term

 

2. dipping MUST be included as a form of cosmetic alteration in order not to alienate 40% of coin collectors

 

3. allow that some degree of alteration (such as dipping) is SOMETIMES acceptable to SOME collectors

3a. i.e. some coins SHOULD be “conserved” (non-invasive) or “reconditioned” (invasive) for posterity

3b. disclose always-acceptable conservation methods (canned air, distilled water, acetone)

3c. disclose often-acceptable alteration methods (judicious dipping, blue-ribbon)

3d. disclose UNacceptable alteration methods (whizzing, puttying, lasering, engraving)

 

4. PNG members must disclose first-hand knowledge of cosmetic alteration

 

5. the definition MUST be verbose enough to cover all the bases adequately

5a. a three-sentence “definition” merely trivializes the issue

 

6. publish a “body of knowledge” to serve as valuable reference, and support all of the above

 

 

#6 clearly states that " I have no opinion" is unacceptable PNG member behavior

[jerseycat10]

What a joke of a thread.Transparent BS.

 

What a bunch of posturing.

 

MJ

 

Ill admit I had to google "posturing"...... But what a word to sum up the thread

 

I believe the OP was posturing. Just sayin. MJ

 

And I dont really care. Just saying

 

I see things the way I see them. Everybody cries foul for AT coins but when somebody "popular" pulls it all of a sudden it becomes okay. Nope, sorry my mind dont work that way.

 

I wont speak for others, but my objections to your tone and posts to this thread have nothing to do with who the seller is or how "popular" he is.

 

Mark I imagine you are right. Maybe my tone is a little over the top.I am not the best at wording things I suppose. I really hope I haven't offended anyone in the process. I do actually have a question for you. If a PNG dealer was to list the auction in question, under the new definition of coin doctor, would the said seller be stripped of his PNG dealer status?

 

 

Cheers (thumbs u

 

Are you implying the seller is a coin doctor?

 

1. re-label “coin doctor” as “cosmetic alteration”, or some similar less-polarizing term

 

2. dipping MUST be included as a form of cosmetic alteration in order not to alienate 40% of coin collectors

 

3. allow that some degree of alteration (such as dipping) is SOMETIMES acceptable to SOME collectors

3a. i.e. some coins SHOULD be “conserved” (non-invasive) or “reconditioned” (invasive) for posterity

3b. disclose always-acceptable conservation methods (canned air, distilled water, acetone)

3c. disclose often-acceptable alteration methods (judicious dipping, blue-ribbon)

3d. disclose UNacceptable alteration methods (whizzing, puttying, lasering, engraving)

 

4. PNG members must disclose first-hand knowledge of cosmetic alteration

 

5. the definition MUST be verbose enough to cover all the bases adequately

5a. a three-sentence “definition” merely trivializes the issue

 

6. publish a “body of knowledge” to serve as valuable reference, and support all of the above

 

 

#6 clearly states that " I have no opinion" is unacceptable PNG member behavior

 

So you would like to change coin doctor to cosmetic alteration for what reason?

 

If this were any other seller, would you have such strong opinions?

 

What is your agenda here? If you have nothing nice to say, why start a thread?

 

 

[dimefreak]

Jerseycat- I copied that directly from the committee putting together the definition of coin doctor for the PNG. Everybody cried foul!!! And than some of the biggest names in coins graciously took it upon themselves to assist. The people in this committee are putting forth plenty of effort and time, not to mention they are offering to come out of their own pockets to reimburse the PNG of any money they might lose. It would be awfully sad to see their effort and money go to waste because the same ones crying foul are making loop holes for people they like. In the grand scheme of things I think its pretty impressive these guys/gals decided to form a committee, website, and request input from everyone just because they feel there is a need. We should be thankful that they are trying to do this. How great would it be to know that you can trust all PNG dealers?

 

 

just saying..............

[dimefreak]

Furthermore as I have already pointed out Mr. D has thousands of positive feedback. He obviously has DONE A GREAT JOB somewhere along the lines. Its worth repeating that I just feel like he made a human error. Nothing more. A revamped PNG will hopefully hold dealers responsible for their actions.

[bochiman]

Next time someone on these NGC boards starts a thread about how bad the pcgs boards are for members flaming and attacking without provacation, and how nice and well-reasoned the folks here are, they should really be pointed to this thread.

 

People are the same everywhere.

 

The title is off the cuff, at best, for this post, and pretty rude in all honesty.

The OP's tone throughout is pretty rude and ignorant as well. Just because he doesn't like the look, he calls into question the dealer who took the consignment and tells him how to run his business.

 

The consignor comes on and is still manhandled.

 

If one thinks the coins are AT, fine. If one things they are not MA, then fine.

If one thinks they are NT, fine.

 

Unless, and until, there can be proof to direct towards any of the above conclusions, then it is all conjecture. If the consignor is to be believed (I am not saying yes, nor am I saying no to his statements, just leaving it in the middle), then he believes they are NT, by definition of most, and also seems to acknowledge that they may not be MA (see his comment about a discussion with David Lange).

 

The coin that is slabbed....more than a few have that look and many here have seen it. Unless, and until, those commenting negatively see the raw ones INHAND and not just a photo, then they really don't know how they look. It is a PHOTO.

 

The OP may say he has no agenda, and that may be true, but he sure did go on the attack and sunk his teeth in.

 

It's a shame that it couldn't have been done more civilly. (sic?)

[dimefreak]

Next time someone on these NGC boards starts a thread about how bad the pcgs boards are for members flaming and attacking without provacation, and how nice and well-reasoned the folks here are, they should really be pointed to this thread.

 

People are the same everywhere.

 

The title is off the cuff, at best, for this post, and pretty rude in all honesty.

The OP's tone throughout is pretty rude and ignorant as well. Just because he doesn't like the look, he calls into question the dealer who took the consignment and tells him how to run his business.

 

The consignor comes on and is still manhandled.

 

If one thinks the coins are AT, fine. If one things they are not MA, then fine.

If one thinks they are NT, fine.

 

Unless, and until, there can be proof to direct towards any of the above conclusions, then it is all conjecture. If the consignor is to be believed (I am not saying yes, nor am I saying no to his statements, just leaving it in the middle), then he believes they are NT, by definition of most, and also seems to acknowledge that they may not be MA (see his comment about a discussion with David Lange).

 

The coin that is slabbed....more than a few have that look and many here have seen it. Unless, and until, those commenting negatively see the raw ones INHAND and not just a photo, then they really don't know how they look. It is a PHOTO.

 

The OP may say he has no agenda, and that may be true, but he sure did go on the attack and sunk his teeth in.

 

It's a shame that it couldn't have been done more civilly. (sic?)

 

Keep in mind that it didn't get bad in this thread until the folks from ATS came over.....

 

Just saying (thumbs u

[MarkFeld]

Next time someone on these NGC boards starts a thread about how bad the pcgs boards are for members flaming and attacking without provacation, and how nice and well-reasoned the folks here are, they should really be pointed to this thread.

 

People are the same everywhere.

 

The title is off the cuff, at best, for this post, and pretty rude in all honesty.

The OP's tone throughout is pretty rude and ignorant as well. Just because he doesn't like the look, he calls into question the dealer who took the consignment and tells him how to run his business.

 

The consignor comes on and is still manhandled.

 

If one thinks the coins are AT, fine. If one things they are not MA, then fine.

If one thinks they are NT, fine.

 

Unless, and until, there can be proof to direct towards any of the above conclusions, then it is all conjecture. If the consignor is to be believed (I am not saying yes, nor am I saying no to his statements, just leaving it in the middle), then he believes they are NT, by definition of most, and also seems to acknowledge that they may not be MA (see his comment about a discussion with David Lange).

 

The coin that is slabbed....more than a few have that look and many here have seen it. Unless, and until, those commenting negatively see the raw ones INHAND and not just a photo, then they really don't know how they look. It is a PHOTO.

 

The OP may say he has no agenda, and that may be true, but he sure did go on the attack and sunk his teeth in.

 

It's a shame that it couldn't have been done more civilly. (sic?)

 

Keep in mind that it didn't get bad in this thread until the folks from ATS came over.....

 

Just saying (thumbs u

 

That's incorrect. The thread started out badly with your thread title. And your posts within this thread constitute the large majority of the rude ones. Don't blame that on others.

[bochiman]

Next time someone on these NGC boards starts a thread about how bad the pcgs boards are for members flaming and attacking without provacation, and how nice and well-reasoned the folks here are, they should really be pointed to this thread.

 

People are the same everywhere.

 

The title is off the cuff, at best, for this post, and pretty rude in all honesty.

The OP's tone throughout is pretty rude and ignorant as well. Just because he doesn't like the look, he calls into question the dealer who took the consignment and tells him how to run his business.

 

The consignor comes on and is still manhandled.

 

If one thinks the coins are AT, fine. If one things they are not MA, then fine.

If one thinks they are NT, fine.

 

Unless, and until, there can be proof to direct towards any of the above conclusions, then it is all conjecture. If the consignor is to be believed (I am not saying yes, nor am I saying no to his statements, just leaving it in the middle), then he believes they are NT, by definition of most, and also seems to acknowledge that they may not be MA (see his comment about a discussion with David Lange).

 

The coin that is slabbed....more than a few have that look and many here have seen it. Unless, and until, those commenting negatively see the raw ones INHAND and not just a photo, then they really don't know how they look. It is a PHOTO.

 

The OP may say he has no agenda, and that may be true, but he sure did go on the attack and sunk his teeth in.

 

It's a shame that it couldn't have been done more civilly. (sic?)

 

Keep in mind that it didn't get bad in this thread until the folks from ATS came over.....

 

Just saying (thumbs u

 

Actually, it started with you....and your unwillingness to own up to your own words/actions.

 

I do like the way you try to use the emoticons to hide your sarcasm and thinly veiled rudeness, however

[jerseycat10]

Its worth repeating that I just feel like he made a human error.

 

So, in your opinion, he made a human error. So your course of action was to blast him on public forums? Couldn't have expressed your concerns privately?

[dimefreak]

Ill leave you all with this

 

I knew it would come to this. I had a conversation right before posting this thread actually. But, I was perfectly fine with being the "sacrificial lamb" if you will. Its no skin off my back. Its not like I am some big shot dealer that must save face. Plenty of people have a lot of interest in the well being of Richards name. Furthermore as a consignor, he is faced with many difficult decisions that I certainly dont envy. I do however know that in the past when others were faced with difficult decisions very similar to this they leaned more toward the ethical side. My point of view here is nothing more than my point of view. I can assure you I had no intentions of insulting until I was insulted. Yes, I was insulted when somebody felt I would believe such hogwash of a story.I was also insulted my the members from ATS talking about having coins that we over here have never seen. I find it almost laughable that I am suppose to own up to "my actions", but it is perfectly fine for a "great seller" to ride the fence on a topic that is widely seen as deceiving. Its also laughable that my question about the new definition of "coin doctor" was ignored. Its fine I looked for myself and sure enough according to the current definition this would be against the rules. Maybe before the definition has even been presented we have found a loop hole. It's obvious (to me at least) that now would be a good time to venture into a different market of coins. It seems no matter what some will never be happy. You want a end to AT coins, unless of course you have some sort of investment into a person selling them. This will be my last post here. I will continue to enjoy my coin collecting with my son.

 

 

CHEERS

[MarkFeld]

..... I can assure you I had no intentions of insulting until I was insulted.....

 

Whether you realize it (or admit it) or not, starting a thread titled "Shaking my head in disgust" IS insulting.

 

Its also laughable that my question about the new definition of "coin doctor" was ignored.

 

I ignored it, because at the present time, there is no current or new PNG definition.

[physics-fan3.14]

I would be very interested to hear the outcome of in-hand viewing by some board members. Please, if you guys remember, bump this thread with your in hand assessments.

[ldhair]

I just wanted to say something about the coins. To me they look like a bunch of Lincolns that got wet in the bag and had poor storage over the years.

[erickso1]

I like them and would have no problem owning them.

 

I may have missed the boat w/ this post but I figured I'd get in when I can.

[Kurtdog]

The inference in this listing is that the other tarnished coins will make the "NT grade," as well, as they're all from the same, 100%-positive-feedback, trusted seller. My point is that when we're accepting these arbitrary standards by which to judge the gradability of tarnished coins, this is the kind of craziness we end up with. The TPGs are always the final word on same, as it's impossible for rational people to apply arbitrary standards. Get your tarnished coins in slabs, now, if you know what's good for them, as, your opinion means nothing. That's where we're at, now, on tarnished coins, accepting playing by these arbitrary standards.

 

Your inference (or rather assumption) is deeply misguided. Moreover, the seller explicitly states in the listing that he does not offer an opinion on the gradeability of the other 37 coins. In fact, if inferences are permissible/justifiable, I would infer that the seller at least questions whether they will slab. Please note that this comment is not suggesting that the coins are AT/NT or what have you (the services do reject some NT coins, I'm sure).

 

+ 2

 

jom

- 3