My CAC approved coin is now beanless

[ultra-crepidarian]

I have a CAC stickered coin that I sent into NGC to get put in a new Scratch-Resistant EdgeView holder. I contacted CAC to see what the procedure was to get a new green bean sticker for the coin.

 

What you are supposed to do is:

 

1. Make a color scan of your coin with the bean BEFORE you send it into NGC (or Photoshop one after the fact)

 

2. Send the coin into NGC for reholding (this is necessary to have the sticker actually destroyed)

 

3. After the beanless coin is returned to you, take the coin to a CAC approved submission center (the closes one to me is 83 miles away)

 

4. Resubmit the coin through the submission center with the color scan and pay $3 for your new bean (You will also need to pay 2-way shipping costs plus, I presume, a little something for the submitter)

 

5. A new sticker will be placed on the slab (no cost for labor) then the coin will be mailed back to you and, if you are lucky, the post office will actually deliver it

 

What is wrong with me? I thought that maybe, given that the coin is already registered in the CAC database by NGC certification number and the reholding doesn’t change the certification number, maybe I would just have to send in my NGC invoice for the reholding services and CAC would mail me a new bean for $5 or something like that.

 

But, of course, I have no formal training on applying a sticker onto a slab so I guess I can understand why they would want me to incur all of the additional cost and risk of actually mailing the physical coin back to them.

 

So, I guess, my coin will remain beanless. ….. Wait a minute, if I put a knockoff Chinese CAC sticker on a real CAC approved coin, would that be wrong?

 

 

Remember BUY THE COIN not the sticker, or the label or the slab or something like that … these guy are not making life any easier for us.

 

[cpm9ball]

I knew there'd be a good reason why I never bothered with this service. Thanks for the warning!

 

Chris

[gpnyc]

I thought that maybe, given that the coin is already registered in the CAC database by NGC certification number and the reholding doesn’t change the certification number, maybe I would just have to send in my NGC invoice for the reholding services and CAC would mail me a new bean for $5 or something like that.

 

Likely a security issue. If they mailed you a green bean you could stick it on whatever slab you wanted. Not that you would do that but there are many not-so-honest people in the business. I'm sure the stickers are controlled tightly.

[robec1347]

It would probably be cheaper just to send the coin in again at the $10 cost.

[supertooth]

ultra--crepidarian

 

I love your apparent sarcasm. You gave this 65 year old a nice smile across his face.

 

While the procedure seems correct to me, what a waste of time and money. Not to mention a possible messup somewhere. As Chris says, that's why I choose not to avail myself of the CAC.

 

I would only do this if I was selling the coin and if somehow I believed that the CAC sticker would bring "MUCH" extra bucks. Bob [supertooth]

[MarkFeld]

I knew there'd be a good reason why I never bothered with this service. Thanks for the warning!

 

Chris

 

Which service? If you mean CAC, itself, the reholdering and re-stickering issue, which comes up extremely rarely for most of us, doesn't seem like a reason not to use CAC.

 

 

[ultra-crepidarian]

ultra--crepidarian

 

I love your apparent sarcasm. You gave this 65 year old a nice smile across his face.

 

While the procedure seems correct to me, what a waste of time and money. Not to mention a possible messup somewhere. As Chris says, that's why I choose not to avail myself of the CAC.

 

I would only do this if I was selling the coin and if somehow I believed that the CAC sticker would bring "MUCH" extra bucks. Bob [supertooth]

 

Yes, it was meant to be sarcastic (but good humored – I am not really upset about this) and I agree with your comment 100%.

 

However, the subtext of the post also questions the degree of security offered by the sticker. Security (to the extent possible) is provided by CAC’s online verification system based on the TPG’s certification numbers on the slabs. The green sticker is essentially a marketing tool. If CAC trains individuals to accept the green bean as authoritative evidence of CAC-verification they are setting themselves up for problems in the future since the stickers are relatively easy for forge (at least to a degree necessary to provoke havoc on markets).

 

When the security becomes so burdensome to cause a legitimate user to ponder the ethics of slapping a forged sticker on a legitimate CAC verified coin, (something I would never do of course) maybe standard operating procedures need to be re-evaluated. What about having stickers available at NGC and PCGS to replace those destroyed through the re-holding process? (Of course, CAC would need to provide adequate training to NGC and PCGS personnel on how to apply stickers to slabs … that is some more sarcasm - sorry).

 

[cpm9ball]

I knew there'd be a good reason why I never bothered with this service. Thanks for the warning!

 

Chris

 

Which service? If you mean CAC, itself, the reholdering and re-stickering issue, which comes up extremely rarely for most of us, doesn't seem like a reason not to use CAC.

 

 

While the service may be of benefit to those who buy and sell, it means absolutely nothing to someone who hoards. I'll leave it up to the unfortunate soul who inherits my collection.

 

Chris

[jgrinz]

My distaste is with a 4th grading service giving their opinin on a third graded coin - we dont want to get me startered on the stars and the plusses

The industry sees a need and I guess there is a need

AS for this fiasco - I would leave it ballsless too

[James_OldeTowne]

It isn't just slabs and stickers. "Grade" is worshiped entirely too much in our little numismatic society. Often I wonder how many people actually enjoy collecting coins. Most seem to care almost exclusively about "when it comes time to sell".

[jom]

It isn't just slabs and stickers. "Grade" is worshiped entirely too much in our little numismatic society. Often I wonder how many people actually enjoy collecting coins. Most seem to care almost exclusively about "when it comes time to sell".

 

So you've notice this too, eh? Just look at the coin forums (here, ATS, cointalk, whatever) and many of the more controversial threads are about grading or CAC or pop reports or TPGs or AT/NT etc etc. Look at the huge premiums paid for certain holders like rattlers, OGH, Black NGC etc etc.

 

Do we collect COINS anymore? It's a good question....

 

jom

[James_OldeTowne]

There's also too little humor in the hobby these days, so....

My CAC approved coin is now beanless

Flatulence for your coin should no longer be a problem !

[jgrinz]

There's also too little humor in the hobby these days, so....

My CAC approved coin is now beanless

Flatulence for your coin should no longer be a problem !

 

[Crohnos01]

It isn't just slabs and stickers. "Grade" is worshiped entirely too much in our little numismatic society. Often I wonder how many people actually enjoy collecting coins. Most seem to care almost exclusively about "when it comes time to sell".

 

So you've notice this too, eh? Just look at the coin forums (here, ATS, cointalk, whatever) and many of the more controversial threads are about grading or CAC or pop reports or TPGs or AT/NT etc etc. Look at the huge premiums paid for certain holders like rattlers, OGH, Black NGC etc etc.

 

Do we collect COINS anymore? It's a good question....

 

jom

 

Wow... I thought it was just me. Since most of my coins are raw, I thought maybe I was naive about how important grading is/was. Seems like it's only somewhat important when you go to sell, and then, (correct me if I'm wrong) only if the person you are selling to either cannot grade themselves or you are making the sale via FleaBay or some other such auction house where photos don't necessarily do the coin justice....

 

Even then, from what I am picking up on the forum, just because a coin gets graded a MS69 and slabbed today, doesn't mean it will still grade that way 20 years from now.

 

It sure seems like the TPG thing has gotten completely out of hand.

[FishyOne]

CAC offers great services at a low price. I did submit a re-holdered coin for re-stickering one time and paid the $3 fee and round-trip shipping like expected. It paid off handsomely when I sold the coin.

 

CAC sending out stickers for you to re-sticker your slab? You must be joking right?

[physics-fan3.14]

Solution is simple - just peel the sticker off the old slab, keep it safe, and reattach it when the coin comes back.

[coinman_23885]

Solution is simple - just peel the sticker off the old slab, keep it safe, and reattach it when the coin comes back.

 

I have never tried removing a CAC sticker from any of my coins; however, I'm thinking that the odds of successfully removing the sticker without substantial damage to the sticker is minimal. Given that most don't have access to online verification databases at shows, it would raise questions to me if I saw a coin with a sticker that looked like it was transferred or pasted on by a seller. Even if the coin looked fine, I would still wonder what the seller was trying to pull. This discomfort would make me walk. With this said, I would buy the same coin (assuming CAC is correct in its assumption that it is at least solid for the grade) without a CAC sticker without reservation. The appearance of potential dishonesty (even if unfounded) is powerful.

[PerryHall]

Solution is simple - just peel the sticker off the old slab, keep it safe, and reattach it when the coin comes back.

 

They are designed to disintegrate if you try to remove them. If you don't believe me, try it sometime.

[WoodenJefferson]

Yes, the beans are tamper-proof and as far as I know, the top tier grading services disdain anything attached to their slabs and I don't blame them.

[coinman1794]

 

What about having stickers available at NGC and PCGS to replace those destroyed through the re-holding process? (Of course, CAC would need to provide adequate training to NGC and PCGS personnel on how to apply stickers to slabs … that is some more sarcasm - sorry).

 

While I cannot speak for the TPGs directly, I can't imagine they are very fond of CAC

[Raisethis2]

You'd think that CAC would just supply NGC and PCGS with beans for re-slabbed coins and then just have them verify which previously stickered coins received the stickers used. Why make the customers assume all the added cost and risk? Is there no honor among thieves?

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Solution is simple - just peel the sticker off the old slab, keep it safe, and reattach it when the coin comes back.

 

They are designed to disintegrate if you try to remove them. If you don't believe me, try it sometime.

 

This was intended to be a joke. I'm aware they are supposedly tamper proof.

[PerryHall]

 

What about having stickers available at NGC and PCGS to replace those destroyed through the re-holding process? (Of course, CAC would need to provide adequate training to NGC and PCGS personnel on how to apply stickers to slabs … that is some more sarcasm - sorry).

 

While I cannot speak for the TPGs directly, I can't imagine they are very fond of CAC

 

No one, especially experts, likes to be second guessed which I guess is just human nature.

[coinman1794]

 

What about having stickers available at NGC and PCGS to replace those destroyed through the re-holding process? (Of course, CAC would need to provide adequate training to NGC and PCGS personnel on how to apply stickers to slabs … that is some more sarcasm - sorry).

 

While I cannot speak for the TPGs directly, I can't imagine they are very fond of CAC

 

No one, especially experts, likes to be second guessed which I guess is just human nature.

 

More importantly, we are talking about companies that depend on their reputations. They must be are very causios of another company that publicly questions their judgement. I have always assumed this is why CAC will only mark slabs that pass their standards; issuing some type of sticker to those that do not pass could be grounds for legal action.

 

[bartlesvilleok]

With as long as CAC has been around I am still kind of shocked that NGC has not offered this service. By using there over sized slabs they could slab the PCGS slab and do the same thing as CAC.

 

If this ever came to be I am sure there are some that would still send it into CAC. I wonder which they would grade off the orginal slab or the larger slab the smaller one is in. Maybe CAC would have to come up with more colors.

 

You would probably have to send to pcgs, then CAC. CAC places sticker on the PCGS slab. Send to NGC, send back to CAC.

 

Sad thing is if PCGS graded something a ms65 and CAC agreed with a green bean, then they had NGC grade and they also graded it a MS65 you know someone one someplace would be sending back to see if CAC agreed with NGC's grade of MS65 even thought they had already agreed with PCGS on the same grade.

[Chris1976]

Next on TV for your viewing pleasure "the great coin slab off"

[MarkFeld]

 

What about having stickers available at NGC and PCGS to replace those destroyed through the re-holding process? (Of course, CAC would need to provide adequate training to NGC and PCGS personnel on how to apply stickers to slabs … that is some more sarcasm - sorry).

 

While I cannot speak for the TPGs directly, I can't imagine they are very fond of CAC

 

No one, especially experts, likes to be second guessed which I guess is just human nature.

 

More importantly, we are talking about companies that depend on their reputations. They must be are very causios of another company that publicly questions their judgement. I have always assumed this is why CAC will only mark slabs that pass their standards; issuing some type of sticker to those that do not pass could be grounds for legal action.

 

I see no grounds for legal action for issuing such an opinion. And It is not that different from when PCGS or NGC fail to cross a coin from the other company, and in some cases, state why.

 

I believe that the primary reason CAC doesn't mark the slabs with a fail sticker is because the coins' owners wouldn't want that and in the vast majority of cases, would probably remove them, anyway.

[lehigh96]

 

What about having stickers available at NGC and PCGS to replace those destroyed through the re-holding process? (Of course, CAC would need to provide adequate training to NGC and PCGS personnel on how to apply stickers to slabs … that is some more sarcasm - sorry).

 

While I cannot speak for the TPGs directly, I can't imagine they are very fond of CAC

 

No one, especially experts, likes to be second guessed which I guess is just human nature.

 

More importantly, we are talking about companies that depend on their reputations. They must be are very causios of another company that publicly questions their judgement. I have always assumed this is why CAC will only mark slabs that pass their standards; issuing some type of sticker to those that do not pass could be grounds for legal action.

 

I see no grounds for legal action for issuing such an opinion. And It is not that different from when PCGS or NGC fail to cross a coin from the other company, and in some cases, state why.

 

I believe that the primary reason CAC doesn't mark the slabs with a fail sticker is because the coins' owners wouldn't want that and in the vast majority of cases, would probably remove them, anyway.

 

Mark is correct and sometimes CAC does apply a sticker to failed coins with an explanation. Here is what they placed on my Lafayette Dollar.

 

 

Please note that it is the type of sticker that is easily removable.

[leeg]

Mark is correct and sometimes CAC does apply a sticker to failed coins with an explanation. Here is what they placed on my Lafayette Dollar.

 

 

Please note that it is the type of sticker that is easily removable.

I haven't seen this before Paul. Thanks for sharing it.

[coinman1794]

Actually, a paper sticker exlaining their opinion is very different than the green or gold stickers, which are intended for public eyes as official pronouncements from CAC.

 

Additionally, PCGS or NGC explaining to customers, in private, why their coins did not cross, is not the same as attaching an official emblem to another company's product, which would be intended to publicly demean the quality of that company's opinion in the marketplace. That reason, and the fact that unstickered coins have the potential to be re-submitted multiple times by unknowing submitters, could be why CAC doesn't sticker rejected coins.