Anyone know anything about NNC?

[SPeck95512]

I'm looking to possibly buy a Peace $ in an NNC lense graded 65 and it looks perfect from what I can see. I'd like to get y'all's take on NNC and whether this holder should be trusted or not.

 

I know that you're supposed to buy the coin and not the holder but the coin looks good. Do I assume that it may be cleaned inside the holder and just hope for the best?

 

Advice please!

[jesbroken]

Ask the seller if they would guarantee the coin to cross at NGC or PCGS. If they agree and have a good seller's history, why not? Without seeing the coin, it would be hard to make a call. Try posting a pic of the obv/rev.

Good luck,

Jim

[SPeck95512]

Link to seller's pictures: http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=1460895ℑ=513025520&images=513025520,513025546,513025909,513025886,513025465,513025830,513025929,513025859,513025493,513025791&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0

 

The guy offers a full return policy as well...

[MarkFeld]

Even if good images were provided - and those are not good - and the coin otherwise looked nice, the obverse spots kill it for me. I would pass.

 

And don't buy a coin hoping that it's free of problems and accurately graded, unless 1) you are knowledgeable enough to be able to tell the difference, upon examination and 2) there is a full and unconditional return privilege from an established/trustworthy seller.

[Walkerfan]

NNC is a very low tier TPGS.

 

I have seen great coins, terrible coins AND even counterfeit/fraudulent coins in their holders. They are 'OK', SOMETIMES. You must be VERY careful and know what you are doing.

 

I have even heard a story of a coin that was a WONDERFUL MS 66, until it was cracked out and then realized that the obverse was a 1932 P Washington quarter, while the reverse was an unknown, very common date, Denver coin. It had been carefully sliced in half by a machinist to create a fraudulent high grade, KEY DATE!!

 

I purchased ONE very nice coin from them in a MS 64 holder that is likely a MS 62 or 63 but it is still a SOLID, problem-free key date. I never bothered to cross it after cracking it out. I was successful in my purchase but I wouldn't mess around with them again in the future.

[James_OldeTowne]

All grading services make mistakes and overgrade coins. Some make mistakes and undergrade coins.

 

However, I have never, ever, EVER seen a coin in an NNC holder that was correctly graded, or undergraded. They have always been overgraded, in my opinion.

[SPeck95512]

I'm not planning on paying anywhere near 64 money for this coin. Maybe not even near 63 money. They graded it as 65 and it looks good and high relief to me as well as a pretty good strike.

 

I'm the type of collector that likes to roll the dice occasionally and I do come up aces every now and then.

[MarkFeld]

I'm not planning on paying anywhere near 64 money for this coin. Maybe not even near 63 money. They graded it as 65 and it looks good and high relief to me as well as a pretty good strike.

 

I'm the type of collector that likes to roll the dice occasionally and I do come up aces every now and then.

 

Far more times than not, in the case of uncertified coins and those graded by outfits like the one in question, that is the type of thinking and buying which results in bad deals.

 

[Walkerfan]

I'm not planning on paying anywhere near 64 money for this coin. Maybe not even near 63 money. They graded it as 65 and it looks good and high relief to me as well as a pretty good strike.

 

I'm the type of collector that likes to roll the dice occasionally and I do come up aces every now and then.

 

Far more times than not, in the case of uncertified coins and those graded by outfits like the one in question, that is the type of thinking and buying which results in bad deals.

 

I Agree. I paid about one third of MS 64 money for mine. It is likely a MS 63-MS 62, so it was worth that to me.

 

I took a chance, too, but would have returned it had I not liked it when I received it and saw it in hand. The seller had a good return policy.

 

These days, it's NGC or PCGS only for me.

[e1cnr]

whats that green haze?

 

is it a scanner reflection, toning, or PVC?

 

 

the concern would be if you got a problem coin

and could not tell yourself, until you went to sell it later on

 

 

if you are a good grader yourself, making an inhand purchase is easier

then->

'this coin is a MS61, I can pay $XXX'

why would MS65 value be a consideration for a MS61 coin?

 

[SPeck95512]

That's exactly my thinking, and seeing as this guy has full, unconditional return privileges, I don't see a huge downside.

 

I've also thought about the green and it moves from picture to picture so I think it's a byproduct of the photography.

[MarkFeld]

 

A seller isn't going to turn loose of a coin graded MS65, for MS61 money, without a very good reason. You can guess what the possible reasons might be.

[coinman_23885]

Buy the coin only if you understand that the actual coin may have problems, including those that may be concealed by the holder itself (e.g. around the edges). Make sure that you are well versed in detecting problem coins or those that have been counterfeited or altered in any way (this is obviously general advice). On a more positive note, I have received some nice coins; however, you should expect to the coins to grade at LEAST three points lower on even common date coins. The better date coins are often overgraded by an even larger point spread.

 

Caveat emptor!

[coinman_23885]

I'm not planning on paying anywhere near 64 money for this coin. Maybe not even near 63 money. They graded it as 65 and it looks good and high relief to me as well as a pretty good strike.

 

I'm the type of collector that likes to roll the dice occasionally and I do come up aces every now and then.

 

The odds are far more likely that this coin is MS61 - MS62 at best. Why pay full retail for a coin that you could probably get cheaper in a PCGS/NGC holder (that is a MS61-MS62)?

[Chris1976]

Based of what I could see from the pictures (which wasnt much really) I would pass on it as I feel there could be alot of things hidden by the poor pictures. It's your choice, but if it were me, I wouldnt touch it.

[James_OldeTowne]

there could be alot of things hidden by the poor pictures

I agree with that as well. Why take lousy pictures of an expensive coin, apparently with a cell phone camera? It just doesn't seem worth the hassle to me to pursue this 1921, when they aren't scarce and you can find a nice one certified by NGC.

[Conder101]

and seeing as this guy has full, unconditional return privileges, I don't see a huge downside.

He may have full unconditional return privileges, but you can pretty much bet that doesn't include shipping and insurance costs. So you are basically risking shipping and insurance both ways for the privilege of looking at the coin.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I am not certain I understand the logic of such a transaction at all, when there are already many existing questions during the contemplation of the transaction that are not answered.

 

The self-justification of taking a risk is more in line with gambling in lieu of an educated purchase.

 

After all, why do we sing to the Heavens "buy the coin and not the Holder", and then attempt to defy the obvious-a disappointing transaction.

 

It may be a bit easier to telephone a knowledgeable friend, and a trustworthy Dealer to purchase a coin for you.

 

Respectfully, of course.

John Curlis

[World Colonial]

I have only seen one large Ebay seller offer coins in an NNC holder. I assume that they are a self-slabber though that may not be true. In any event, I would either consider any coins in this holder overgraded or buy it as if it were not graded at all when deciding how much to pay.

[physics-fan3.14]

I have only seen one large Ebay seller offer coins in an NNC holder. I assume that they are a self-slabber though that may not be true. In any event, I would either consider any coins in this holder overgraded or buy it as if it were not graded at all when deciding how much to pay.

 

It has been my experience that coins in NNC, NTC, and other Third World slabbers are easier to sell raw than they are actually in the holder. If you do buy and try and sell, crack it out first.

[SPeck95512]

It went for more than $200. My personally imposed limit was $125.

[coinman_23885]

It went for more than $200. My personally imposed limit was $125.

 

You're likely better off without it. If you are going to buy non PCGS/NGC conis at least consider ICG/ANACS (and I know that many any disagree with me on this point - there are consistency issues but true treasures can be found). They also have guarantees, although I admittedly have never submitted a coin under either ANACS's or ICG's for review under the guarantee.

[123cents]

There are a lot of problem coins in NNC holders. Some of the problems are not easy to detect from online photos. Like rim filing, rim bumps and dings, and whizzed coins.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

There are a lot of problem coins in NNC holders. Some of the problems are not easy to detect from online photos. Like rim filing, rim bumps and dings, and whizzed coins.

 

Just out of curiosity and not meant to be argumentative at all, but (there is always a "but") couldn't the same thing be said fairly about any TPG encapsulated coin?

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[physics-fan3.14]

There are a lot of problem coins in NNC holders. Some of the problems are not easy to detect from online photos. Like rim filing, rim bumps and dings, and whizzed coins.

 

Just out of curiosity and not meant to be argumentative at all, but (there is always a "but") couldn't the same thing be said fairly about any TPG encapsulated coin?

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

 

Its a question of magnitude. Yes, there are the occasional problem coin that slips through NGC or PCGS (maybe 1 or 2%). But with NNC, it seems like 5 out of 6 coins have problems.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

There are a lot of problem coins in NNC holders. Some of the problems are not easy to detect from online photos. Like rim filing, rim bumps and dings, and whizzed coins.

 

Just out of curiosity and not meant to be argumentative at all, but (there is always a "but") couldn't the same thing be said fairly about any TPG encapsulated coin?

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

 

Its a question of magnitude. Yes, there are the occasional problem coin that slips through NGC or PCGS (maybe 1 or 2%). But with NNC, it seems like 5 out of 6 coins have problems.

 

 

Agreed, and agree that it is a learning curve and trust factor, because detecting rim filing, bumps and dings certainly isn't exclusive as applying only to the less than stellar TPGs, and are not as easy to detect, unlike whizzed coins that can be more readily identified.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[SPeck95512]

Now, call me crazy here, but how do coins ever end up graded by any TGP?

 

It seems like everyone and their dog, here and at the other guys' boards, tells me not to buy anything but slabbed coins, or only coins slabbed by PCGS & NGC. If everyone and their dog followed this advice, then no coins would ever get slabbed.

 

Are we, as consumers, supposed to wait on dealers to submit all raw coins for us and then pay the money for the slab?

 

I, personally, would take the risk of sending coins in myself if I see that they have a good potential to grade fairly well and have done so on many occasions. My thumbnail photo <--------- Bought it 'raw' and had it graded. It's a 1966 SMS DCAM So why should I let some dealer buy my coins for me when I have enough of an eye for quality and more caution than most when dealing with online sellers?

 

I just don't get it.

[James_OldeTowne]

It seems like everyone and their dog, here and at the other guys' boards, tells me not to buy anything but slabbed coins, or only coins slabbed by PCGS & NGC.

Anyone who says that is nuts... but I don't think that's really what most are saying.

 

What many of us are trying to express to you is that it is downright foolish to spend a substantial amount of money on questionable coins.

 

Questionable coins certainly do show up in every TPG brand of holder. But in NGC and PCGS holders, likely no more than 15% are questionable (by which I mean the grade is in question, or occasionally, a serious detriment was missed), whereas in an NNC slab, likely 97% of the coins are questionable. And with NGC and PCGS, you have at least some recourse, whereas if you buy a coin in an NNC holder and find out much later it's junk, you are stuck with NO recourse.

 

With raw coins, the sheer quantity prevents any meaningless evaluation of what "percent are questionable". In that arena, it all comes down to your ability to discern problem-free coins.

 

Had you bought the NNC 1921 Peace for $125, you probably would have been all right, since even in terrible shape, it's worth up to that much. Unfortunately, there's a bigger fool out there who was willing to pay $200.

[Conder101]

It seems like everyone and their dog, here and at the other guys' boards, tells me not to buy anything but slabbed coins, or only coins slabbed by PCGS & NGC. If everyone and their dog followed this advice, then no coins would ever get slabbed.

I would say that it is a general precautionary statement that is designed to protect people whose knowledge base is unknown. Like "You should never clean a coin!" or "Don't go near the street!". As your knowledge base increases you learn when it is safe to ignore these statements. I mean I go near streets all the time now. And you wouldn't leave a coin contaminated with active PVC residue just because someone said to never clean a coin. But the key is not to do these things, buying raw or third tier slabbed coins, or cleaning coins, until you have learned how to grade and accurately evaluate coins on your own, or how to and when to safely do the cleaning. Unfortunately many collectors will never get beyond just blindly following the "only buy PCGS or NGC" mantra and will never know more than how to read the slab label.

[e1cnr]

I think what people are saying, is unless you have alot of experience grading - detecting counterfeits - detecting problems - you will generally lose lots of money buying raw coins

 

Examining coins in hand is much different than seeing blurry pics on internet by seller hoping to lure some newby insufficiently_thoughtful_person into paying 3-5 times the worth of a coin

 

Unless you have unlimited wealth, stick to reputable dealers of raw coins, or quite abit of experience interprolating internet pics, you would be much better off buying slabbed coins from the top grading services

 

Many sellers have learned how to maximize the sale value of their items, frequently to their best interest rather than the buyers - look at the SGS70 slabs, and compare to raw prices.

 

The counterfeiters have also gotten better at copying slabs, so you have to still be careful on who you buy from or you might get a sandwiched coin in a fake slab - imagine a MS65 1932-S quarter and crack it out and get 2 halves of a quarter - or a 1945-P full band dime ditto - that you paid over $5K for because they are $10K coins

 

Good luck in the coin industry!!