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Indianapolis Coin Dealer Robbed

Started by cpm9ball,

24 posts in this topic

Houston Investor

Houston Investor

Posted
Posted

The coin business can be very dangerous. One needs to arm themselves and be cognizant of surroundings. In addition, watch your wallet and checkbook.

 

I am hearing more and more stories from dealers on the bourse setting up at tables near mine that the recession seems to be getting worse and hence criminial practices. This is reinforced with horror stories about burglary, shoplifitng, bad checks and the foolishness of sending out big ticket approvals. While I have operated basically cash and carry for years at shows I have occasionally taken checks below my "risk tolerance" limit of $300 from show customers. I have stopped even this. For mail order, if payment by check / mo I dont ship anything until payment has cleared or cashed. With money orders do not ship the item until you have cashed it as there are many fakes of these out there. Don't let some unreasonable customer pressure you into shipping an item before payment clearance, etc.

 

Dealers can be especially bad about hot checks. I have had many want to write me a check for a big ticket deal at a show which exceeds my comfort level especially if the deal is low profit margin. When their BS starts about how so and so will vouch for them its time for them to leave my table. I remind them that I take payment via cash, bullion coins / semi numismatics at melt, and PCGS NGC certified coins (I can use for inventory) at 20% behind CDN Bid. And I dont care who it is, their alleged reputation, friends, bla bla bla.

 

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted
The coin business can be very dangerous. One needs to arm themselves and be cognizant of surroundings. In addition, watch your wallet and checkbook.

 

I am hearing more and more stories from dealers on the bourse setting up at tables near mine that the recession seems to be getting worse and hence criminial practices. This is reinforced with horror stories about burglary, shoplifitng, bad checks and the foolishness of sending out big ticket approvals. While I have operated basically cash and carry for years at shows I have occasionally taken checks below my "risk tolerance" limit of $300 from show customers. I have stopped even this. For mail order, if payment by check / mo I dont ship anything until payment has cleared or cashed. With money orders do not ship the item until you have cashed it as there are many fakes of these out there. Don't let some unreasonable customer pressure you into shipping an item before payment clearance, etc.

 

Dealers can be especially bad about hot checks. I have had many want to write me a check for a big ticket deal at a show which exceeds my comfort level especially if the deal is low profit margin. When their BS starts about how so and so will vouch for them its time for them to leave my table. I remind them that I take payment via cash, bullion coins / semi numismatics at melt, and PCGS NGC certified coins (I can use for inventory) at 20% behind CDN Bid. And I dont care who it is, their alleged reputation, friends, bla bla bla.

 

I am relieved to hear that you don't take checks on the bourse. That means if I accidently find something at your table I want in the near future, you will say no and I will find out who you are and which dealer to avoid. Like many collectors, I don't carry cash to the bourse, I carry checks. Dealers I know accept my checks because they know I am honest. Dealers that want my buisness who don't know me, must accept the word from a dealer who does, bla bla bla.

 

Every post you make discussing your selling practices clearly demonstrates its all about you. You don't have a clue what customer service is and the fact that someone else is on the other side of your transactions. Take take take, that is you. You are some kind of dude. '20% behind CDN Bid'? You sir, are a rip off artist as well.

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jackson64

jackson64

Posted
Posted
The coin business can be very dangerous. One needs to arm themselves and be cognizant of surroundings. In addition, watch your wallet and checkbook.

 

I am hearing more and more stories from dealers on the bourse setting up at tables near mine that the recession seems to be getting worse and hence criminial practices. This is reinforced with horror stories about burglary, shoplifitng, bad checks and the foolishness of sending out big ticket approvals. While I have operated basically cash and carry for years at shows I have occasionally taken checks below my "risk tolerance" limit of $300 from show customers. I have stopped even this. For mail order, if payment by check / mo I dont ship anything until payment has cleared or cashed. With money orders do not ship the item until you have cashed it as there are many fakes of these out there. Don't let some unreasonable customer pressure you into shipping an item before payment clearance, etc.

 

Dealers can be especially bad about hot checks. I have had many want to write me a check for a big ticket deal at a show which exceeds my comfort level especially if the deal is low profit margin. When their BS starts about how so and so will vouch for them its time for them to leave my table. I remind them that I take payment via cash, bullion coins / semi numismatics at melt, and PCGS NGC certified coins (I can use for inventory) at 20% behind CDN Bid. And I dont care who it is, their alleged reputation, friends, bla bla bla.

 

I am relieved to hear that you don't take checks on the bourse. That means if I accidently find something at your table I want in the near future, you will say no and I will find out who you are and which dealer to avoid. Like many collectors, I don't carry cash to the bourse, I carry checks. Dealers I know accept my checks because they know I am honest. Dealers that want my buisness who don't know me, must accept the word from a dealer who does, bla bla bla.

 

Every post you make discussing your selling practices clearly demonstrates its all about you. You don't have a clue what customer service is and the fact that someone else is on the other side of your transactions. Take take take, that is you. You are some kind of dude. '20% behind CDN Bid'? You sir, are a rip off artist as well.

 

Wow, very harsh. Is there a need to dress someone down like this? Has he done something to you?

 

PS: it is always very saddening to hear of a coin dealer ( or anyone for that matter) being robbed or burglarized. Our society is becoming more lawless, course and crass by the day it seems. My thoughts and prayers will go out to this man and his family and I hope it doesn't cause too great of a financial burden on him.

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jom

jom

Posted
Posted

OH no! That's the Coin Talk guy. Sorry to hear about this...it can be a tough business especially with a store....

 

jom

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jom

jom

Posted
Posted
I am relieved to hear that you don't take checks on the bourse. That means if I accidently find something at your table I want in the near future, you will say no and I will find out who you are and which dealer to avoid. Like many collectors, I don't carry cash to the bourse, I carry checks. Dealers I know accept my checks because they know I am honest. Dealers that want my buisness who don't know me, must accept the word from a dealer who does, bla bla bla.

 

Every post you make discussing your selling practices clearly demonstrates its all about you. You don't have a clue what customer service is and the fact that someone else is on the other side of your transactions. Take take take, that is you. You are some kind of dude. '20% behind CDN Bid'? You sir, are a rip off artist as well.

 

While I understand your concern about cash I'm not sure if calling the guy a rip off artist is the right way to go about this.

 

I do NOT carry enough cash to buy coins at shows. Never have, never will. I use checks the same as you. If a dealer ever said I needed cash to pay him then I'd either go find someone who would take my check for cash OR simply pass on the deal. That has RARELY happened as most take my check. If I don't know the dealer I always say he can send the coin to me later just as long as I get a receipt with all the info on it like TPG serial # etc etc. I try to make it as easy as possible on the seller. Most of the time it isn't necessary as they take the check.

 

However, Houston Investor probably shouldn't be telling us how cynical he is about everything. It could give a bad impression I suppose.

 

jom

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted
I am relieved to hear that you don't take checks on the bourse. That means if I accidently find something at your table I want in the near future, you will say no and I will find out who you are and which dealer to avoid. Like many collectors, I don't carry cash to the bourse, I carry checks. Dealers I know accept my checks because they know I am honest. Dealers that want my buisness who don't know me, must accept the word from a dealer who does, bla bla bla.

 

Every post you make discussing your selling practices clearly demonstrates its all about you. You don't have a clue what customer service is and the fact that someone else is on the other side of your transactions. Take take take, that is you. You are some kind of dude. '20% behind CDN Bid'? You sir, are a rip off artist as well.

 

While I understand your concern about cash I'm not sure if calling the guy a rip off artist is the right way to go about this.

 

I do NOT carry enough cash to buy coins at shows. Never have, never will. I use checks the same as you. If a dealer ever said I needed cash to pay him then I'd either go find someone who would take my check for cash OR simply pass on the deal. That has RARELY happened as most take my check. If I don't know the dealer I always say he can send the coin to me later just as long as I get a receipt with all the info on it like TPG serial # etc etc. I try to make it as easy as possible on the seller. Most of the time it isn't necessary as they take the check.

 

However, Houston Investor probably shouldn't be telling us how cynical he is about everything. It could give a bad impression I suppose.

 

jom

 

Well I probably should not have 'dressed him down' but everything HI says is exactly the kind of person I don't want to deal with, on either side of the table. Post after post so I decided to finally say my piece. Coulda kept it to myself probably, my bad..... (shrug)

 

But still, offering 20% below CDN bid, is this really a fair deal to a seller? I can't imagine who would take a low bid like that with the exception of desperate folks or someone with only dreck to sell.....

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
I am relieved to hear that you don't take checks on the bourse. That means if I accidently find something at your table I want in the near future, you will say no and I will find out who you are and which dealer to avoid. Like many collectors, I don't carry cash to the bourse, I carry checks. Dealers I know accept my checks because they know I am honest. Dealers that want my buisness who don't know me, must accept the word from a dealer who does, bla bla bla.

 

Every post you make discussing your selling practices clearly demonstrates its all about you. You don't have a clue what customer service is and the fact that someone else is on the other side of your transactions. Take take take, that is you. You are some kind of dude. '20% behind CDN Bid'? You sir, are a rip off artist as well.

 

While I understand your concern about cash I'm not sure if calling the guy a rip off artist is the right way to go about this.

 

I do NOT carry enough cash to buy coins at shows. Never have, never will. I use checks the same as you. If a dealer ever said I needed cash to pay him then I'd either go find someone who would take my check for cash OR simply pass on the deal. That has RARELY happened as most take my check. If I don't know the dealer I always say he can send the coin to me later just as long as I get a receipt with all the info on it like TPG serial # etc etc. I try to make it as easy as possible on the seller. Most of the time it isn't necessary as they take the check.

 

However, Houston Investor probably shouldn't be telling us how cynical he is about everything. It could give a bad impression I suppose.

 

jom

 

Well I probably should not have 'dressed him down' but everything HI says is exactly the kind of person I don't want to deal with, on either side of the table. Post after post so I decided to finally say my piece. Coulda kept it to myself probably, my bad..... (shrug)

 

But still, offering 20% below CDN bid, is this really a fair deal to a seller? I can't imagine who would take a low bid like that with the exception of desperate folks or someone with only dreck to sell.....

 

In some cases, 20% back of CDN bid would be very fair and in others, extremely low. It would depend upon the coin type, the specific coin and current market conditions.

 

I am am sorry to hear about the robbery. From what I have seen of his posts (and I think a message or two that we have exchanged), the dealer seems like a really good guy.

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Walkerfan

Walkerfan

Posted
Posted

I am very leary about taking a check from anyone who I have never met before (dealers included!!) If you don't know a dealer and you want to sell an expensive coin to him and he wants to give you a check, then what is the safest method?? Should you even do it?? Most dealers are probably gonna write you a 'good' check but HOW CAN YOU BE SURE. Most of this stuff is interstate commerce, which just further complicates matters even worse. I WOULD jump on a Harley and ride 700 miles to claim what is mine but I wouldn't want to put myself in that position in the FIRST PLACE, if it could be avoided, as I would be madder than a wet hornet, once I arrived.

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PerryHall

PerryHall

Posted
Posted

I know a dealer that got a bad check from another dealer---it was returned due to insufficient funds. At the next coin show he put the bad check in one of his display cases with "BAD CHECK" written on it in red magic marker. It didn't take long before word got back to the dealer that wrote the bad check. He ran up with a fist full of cash to buy back his check. I always thought this was a good way to handle a bad check from a dealer situation.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted

No procedure is perfect but to me checks seem the best compromise on the bourse as I and probably many others am/are reluctant to carry $1000s in cash around. If only the dealers would take credit cards, but they don't want the 3% hit and that is understandable. On occasion if a dealer is concerned about my check, I tell him/her to take the check, then send me the item when it clears. That usually can work out well, dealers feel safer about it, and I need to also know I am leaving a check with someone who will follow through. I get a receipt for the item though when I give the dealer the check. Everything on both sides is up front.

 

It is all about building relationships on the bourse and learning who are the people you feel comfortable dealing with on either side of the table. Customer service, honesty, integrity, these words count in this endeavor.

 

Best, HT

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Walkerfan

Walkerfan

Posted
Posted

Yeah, I suppose that a business card with his info on it and a receipt from him stating that he purchased my item would be good enough, until his check clears. I would ask around to make sure the guy is well known, too.

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DirtyGoldMan

DirtyGoldMan

Posted
Posted

I only pay by check except for an occasional purchase under $100. I am not going to walk around with thousands of dollars in cash. It is inconvenient and risky.

 

That said, I have never had a problem buying coins on the bourse or elsewhere. I have never been denied.

 

If some wannabe dealers do not want to take my check, they can keep their coins. There are plenty of real dealers who know how to do business.

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

Posted
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I think this whole discussion about cash, checks & credit cards is hilarous since this thread originally began as an FYI about a coin shop burglary.

 

I hope you get your coins back LD!

 

Chris :roflmao:

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Lost Dutchman

Lost Dutchman

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the well wishes guys. We have been going back through our video surveillance over the past couple weeks trying to see if we can match clothing... shoes... body type... anything. Nothing yet.

 

I do think that I will see some of these items again. I have notified every coin dealer within 150 miles.

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jtryka

jtryka

Posted
Posted

LD, make sure you let the folks at the numismatic crime information center (numismaticcrimes.org), we had an incident where someone walked off with an expensive coin at our local club show in Grand Rapids, and within a week they found the coin in Toledo I think, and the caught the bad guys. At least it's worth a shot if you haven't done so already.

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nk1nk

nk1nk

Posted
Posted

A few months back my local coin shop owner was abducted at his house, his wife was tied up and beaten and they had him drive to the coin shop at gun point. But on the way the shop owner ran his truck into the police station. Luckily nobody got seriously hurt. Crazy world.

 

To the OP hope you find the dirtbags.

 

Nick

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