1909 Matte Proof 1C. GTG, This one's a doozy.

[JOBESSI]

I'm back again with another coin to get your numismatic input on. I bought this matte proof on eBay, and I hope I got a good deal.(seller has 100% feedback on over 2500+ transactions) I do notice the spots @ 11 & 2 o'clock on the OBV, and I wonder how that will effect the grade. I see a small hair line below "liberty" as well. The REV looks to be in tip top shape. I did some research on some proofs that were similar, and I think the coin might still hold up.

 

So what's the grade, and how much is too much to spend on this coin? The pics are the seller's.

 

[Coindude]

I'm going to go with 63 RB, which is still a good grade for that coin.

[JOBESSI]

I'm going to go with 63 RB, which is still a good grade for that coin.

 

what if NCS did away with spots. Same grade?

[coinman_23885]

Is it raw?

[JOBESSI]

Yes it is raw

[James_OldeTowne]

If it truly is a proof, then it looks very unnatural from these images. I believe it will not certify.

[Coindude]

The rims look sharp and flat. Here are a couple of articles that may be of use to you. The reason I called it a RB is the same reason I think James is calling it questionable color. The color does seem to be a bit off, but MPL Lincolns tone strangely and the true color is hard to capture. You might want to get up with Robec, Bob Campbell, as he's very much in tune with MPL's.

 

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=610270

 

http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=6162&universeid=313&type=1

[coinman_23885]

If it truly is a proof, then it looks very unnatural from these images. I believe it will not certify.

 

This is the reason why I asked if the coin was raw. Barring any issues with the color, I'd agree with 63 RB.

[robec1347]

I'm back again with another coin to get your numismatic input on. I bought this matte proof on eBay, and I hope I got a good deal.(seller has 100% feedback on over 2500+ transactions) I do notice the spots @ 11 & 2 o'clock on the OBV, and I wonder how that will effect the grade. I see a small hair line below "liberty" as well. The REV looks to be in tip top shape. I did some research on some proofs that were similar, and I think the coin might still hold up.

 

So what's the grade, and how much is too much to spend on this coin? The pics are the seller's.

 

 

Not my coin, but it is graded PR65RD by PCGS despite the large spots on the reverse. We won't know about your coin unfortunately until you receive it in hand. The spots may be the least of the problems. It looks very nice, but I don't trust those photos.

[robec1347]

I forgot to mention, the hairline you referred to under LIBERTY is a die polish line and is a major diagnostic in recognizing this coin as a Matte Proof. I have very little doubt of it being a proof. I hope everything else is also in order..

[JOBESSI]

I have a question about the potential re-coloring. If it were re-colored, wouldn't it cover up the spots?

[coinman_23885]

I have a question about the potential re-coloring. If it were re-colored, wouldn't it cover up the spots?

 

Not necessarily, and the spots could have developed after the fact. Again, I cannot say for certain that there is something wrong with the coin, but I would certainly send it in to PCGS/NGC if the coin passes an in hand inspection.

[James_OldeTowne]

Recoloring copper can frequently CAUSE spots.

 

This is why I would not pay a king's ransom for a high-grade MPL, no way, no how. There are much better experts on the subject than me, but as far as I am concerned, virtually every single one that I've seen was messed with, except for brown ones. There are even problem pieces that have been sandblasted outside the mint, with the intent to remove surface aberrations! I don't remember for sure, but I think it may have been Larry Briggs (of SEGS) who told me that PCGS and NGC have certified a number of such re-surfaced creations.

 

I have only ever owned two MPLs, and both would have gotten a "brown" designation - something I would be delighted with. It's a marvelous, marvelous series... and one that requires serious dedication to appreciate properly.

[JOBESSI]

Recoloring copper can frequently CAUSE spots.

 

This is why I would not pay a king's ransom for a high-grade MPL, no way, no how. There are much better experts on the subject than me, but as far as I am concerned, virtually every single one that I've seen was messed with, except for brown ones. There are even problem pieces that have been sandblasted outside the mint, with the intent to remove surface aberrations! I don't remember for sure, but I think it may have been Larry Briggs (of SEGS) who told me that PCGS and NGC have certified a number of such re-surfaced creations.

 

I have only ever owned two MPLs, and both would have gotten a "brown" designation - something I would be delighted with. It's a marvelous, marvelous series... and one that requires serious dedication to appreciate properly.

 

Thanks for the info. I hope it passes too. I'll take some pics when I get it. It looks like the seller saturated the photos a bit, but I did get a pretty good price for it I think. But I'll truly find out after I send/receive from NGC/PCGS

[e1cnr]

I like it,

 

 

the picture looks like the coin has a tinge of pimpkin orange/pink

which would make it cleaned, if so

 

as a raw, I would not want to pay over $400 for it

[noow]

The "hairline" is actually a die marker showing that it is a MPF. The spots are relatively minor. I grade it as MS66RD.

 

 

 

 

 

p#7

[coinman_23885]

Did you send it to PCGS/NGC? If so, what did the piece grade?

[L1ncolnF4n]

PR65 would be what I grade it details-wise, but that coin appears 100% recolored, or 200% badly photographed. I'd post your new images ASAP before sending it off, so that you might save yourself grading fees if it's been altered.

 

Granted, even if it's been altered, it still has significantly more value to some in a details holder.

[e1cnr]

has ir shown up?

 

your pics?

[coinman_23885]

What happened? Did it grade or did it end up in a details holder?