A hypothetical question

[jtryka]

Ok, I just came across this situation today, and I think I know what I'm going to do, but thought I would solicit your opinions.

 

Suppose you have a nice collection of coins, but there are several rarer coins that you need which are quite costly. Now suppose you find some at very reasonable prices, but they have problems, they've been cleaned. Since they are rare, they are still quite costly, but about 1/3 of what problem free examples might cost, but even so, buying them would force you to liquidate a number of other coins to afford their purchase,

 

What would you do?

[Walkerfan]

I face that all the time. If I saw a rare KEY DATE; I would most definitely sell off some of my more esoteric issues in order to obtain it, if I had too.

 

NOW, cleaned vs. problem free---That is a whole 'nother animal!

 

I have seen many a dipped coins that still look FINE to me and retain much of their original mint luster.......those I would go for and have no problem with owning.

 

Now, the ones with impaired luster, dull surfaces and ugly toning from dip residue; those I would pass on. Just MHO.

 

You have to LIKE the coin, cleaned or not, and that is usually something that I can tell (from MY OWN standards) within 10-15 mnutes. It's a personal choice. There are guys who just don't like white coins period and others (like me) who find CERTAIN ones perfectly acceptable.

[coinman_23885]

Ok, I just came across this situation today, and I think I know what I'm going to do, but thought I would solicit your opinions.

 

Suppose you have a nice collection of coins, but there are several rarer coins that you need which are quite costly. Now suppose you find some at very reasonable prices, but they have problems, they've been cleaned. Since they are rare, they are still quite costly, but about 1/3 of what problem free examples might cost, but even so, buying them would force you to liquidate a number of other coins to afford their purchase,

 

What would you do?

 

Unless the coins of interest are the last 1-3 pieces on the market, I wouldn't buy cleaned or other problem coins. My experience is that they are not truly bargains, and even paying low price levels, you will be buried in the coin!

 

EDITED TO ADD: With cleaning, it's often hard to tell whether a chemical detergent has been used, and whether it will "turn" later. If you do buy them, I'd rinse them thoroughly with acetone and then distilled water.

[MarkFeld]

Based on the (somewhat limited) information provided, I would pass.

 

If you are seeking opinions/feedback, that tells me you aren't excited about buying tne coins. And if you're not excited, why force yourself? Save the money for something that you have no doubts about.

[Walkerfan]

Ok, I just came across this situation today, and I think I know what I'm going to do, but thought I would solicit your opinions.

 

Suppose you have a nice collection of coins, but there are several rarer coins that you need which are quite costly. Now suppose you find some at very reasonable prices, but they have problems, they've been cleaned. Since they are rare, they are still quite costly, but about 1/3 of what problem free examples might cost, but even so, buying them would force you to liquidate a number of other coins to afford their purchase,

 

What would you do?

 

Unless the coins of interest are the last 1-3 pieces on the market, I wouldn't buy cleaned or other problem coins. My experience is that they are not truly bargains, and even paying low price levels, you will be buried in the coin!

 

EDITED TO ADD: With cleaning, it's often hard to tell whether a chemical detergent has been used, and whether it will "turn" later. If you do buy them, I'd rinse them thoroughly with acetone and then distilled water.

 

I was assuming that the coins were PCGS or NGC slabbed coins. As we all know ALOT of overdipped (and improperly dipped/rinsed) coins make it into TPGS slabs. If these coins that you're talking about are raw, then NO WAY!!

[jtryka]

Well, these coins are slabbed, and from the photos they are not horribly cleaned (not whizzed, etc.) and honestly my guess would be if they were sent in to be certified 10 years ago they'd come back slabbed with a lower net grade.

 

As for their rarity, one of them typically comes up for sale at Heritage about 12-18 times per year, while the other date comes up 3-4 times per year. So while neither is one of the last 1-3 pieces on the market, that's probably not that far off.

[jtryka]

Oh, and Mark, asking for opinions has more to do with the budget contraints than the coins. If I had the money in my account right now, they'd already be bought. But given that I would have to go through a bit of trouble to fit them in my budget, that's where the concerns come in.

[DaveG]

Are these coins slabbed in problem-free slabs?

 

If all you've seen is photos, how do you know they're "problem" coins?

 

 

Here's my general advice, though,

 

Given my experience with "problem" coins, all I can say is that you should run away, fast.

 

"Problem" coins are easy to buy and hard to sell.

 

I recommend strongly that you only buy coins that you are proud to own; coins that impress the most knowledgeable collectors you know; etc., etc.

 

Frankly, if one date comes up for sale at Heritage 12-18 times a year, it's as common as dirt; 3-4 times a year isn't that much rarer.

 

Wait until you're chasing a coin that only comes up for sale at Heritage once every 3 or 4 years before you consider settling for a "problem" coin.

 

Edited to add: Even if you have to squeeze them into your budget, I'd rather save up for a longer period of time in order to own a coin that I was proud of than settle for a "problem" coin now. Even if I had to buy a problem-free example in a lower grade than I'd like, I'd rather do that than buy a "problem" coin.

[Walkerfan]

Oh, and Mark, asking for opinions has more to do with the budget contraints than the coins. If I had the money in my account right now, they'd already be bought. But given that I would have to go through a bit of trouble to fit them in my budget, that's where the concerns come in.

 

Based on what you just said, you can buy now and upgrade later, although, if you plan to upgrade soon, you will almost certainly LOSE SOME money. It's usually, better to upgrade after 5-10 years. I have always lost, at least SOME, money when upgrading (I broke even a few times or made very slight profits but that doesn't happen normally when upgrading, unless you have 6 months to year to sit on them and wait for the right offer) I would avoid buying lower quality and just wait till you have the cash, b/c once I fill a registry slot; I want to be DONE with it and not have poor to mediocre quality coins to show for it or to worry about that don't give you much satisfaction.

 

So my advice is to buy now if you really NEED that coin fix (if you don't mind losing money) but, if you can wait, I WOULD WAIT AND GET NICER COINS. IMHO.

[jtryka]

They are in PCGS genuine slabs, and the photos suggest they were cleaned, The more common of the two has little in the way of marks or hairlines, the rarer one has more marks. And in terms of difference in price, I'm afraid it might be a 5-digit difference for both coins.

[jtryka]

Walkerfan, this is a set I've been working on for over a decade and one which I'll likely never finish, so realistically I would probably view this coins as long-term additions (i.e. I would probably upgrade them in another 10-20 years).

[Walkerfan]

I thought they were numerically graded. I wouldn't ever buy a 'geniune' or 'details' slab.

 

I laugh when I see these coins offered for 5 & 6 thousand dollars. I would not buy a coin that a TPGS has deemed ungradeable and a problem coin. It's just a bad investment move. IMHO.

[DaveG]

If there's that much price difference, then I wouldn't rely on photos.

 

I'd hire an expert, such as Mark, to view the coins in person.

 

Who knows, perhaps upon resubmission, you'd be able to get the coins into problem-free slabs instead of Genuine slabs.

 

Or, perhaps the photos are hiding the more serious problems.

 

In any event, I'd spend the money to have an expert view coins in person - maybe he can even find you some nicer coins.

[TomB]

To best answer this I will just assume the pieces are rare type such as Draped Bust Small Eagle quarter and half dollar or the Half-Disme. Would I buy these hefty coins if they had major problems at 1/3 the cost of problem-free examples? No...Frickin'...Way.

[James_OldeTowne]

Ok, I just came across this situation today, and I think I know what I'm going to do, but thought I would solicit your opinions.

 

Suppose you have a nice collection of coins, but there are several rarer coins that you need which are quite costly. Now suppose you find some at very reasonable prices, but they have problems, they've been cleaned. Since they are rare, they are still quite costly, but about 1/3 of what problem free examples might cost, but even so, buying them would force you to liquidate a number of other coins to afford their purchase,

 

What would you do?

Depending on the specific coins, I wouldn't hesitate to buy them according to customer needs.

 

I have two customers who have poor eyesight, and actually prefer coins that have been cleaned bright. The problem, of course, is that I absolutely will not buy a coin and clean it just to sell to them. Rather, I buy for them coins that are already cleaned.

 

As for myself, I will definitely accept "problem" coins into my collection at the right price. That makes it possible for me to own much scarcer items that would otherwise be far out of my price range.

[HiHoAudio]

The only problem US coin that I own is a 1915-S Panama Pacific $2.50 gold commemorative that was once polished and mounted but looks pretty good to my old eyes and allowed me to own a $1600 coin for less than half that price.

 

Otherwise I prefer problem free coins whenever possible.

 

Here's the Pan-Pac for those of you who are interested...

 

[physics-fan3.14]

I would rather leave an empty hole in my collection than buy a problem coin. I'll save my money and bide my time, but I seek only the finest in originality. It drives me crazy to have holes in my collection, but that's the price I'll pay to have a nice collection.

[jtryka]

Well it looks like a moot point, as one of the coins was sold. I could convince myself to buy the 2 for the cost of 1 problem free coin, but buying just one didn't seem worth it to me. And for your reference, the coins were Saints, 1924 and 1925 minted in Denver.

[jtryka]

Well, it's not hypothetical anymore, I bought the one coin they had left, here are images of the problem coin:

 

[Walkerfan]

I can definitely see the lines and I can understand the "WHY" of how this coin ended up in a 'problem slab' but, had it not been for the improper cleaning of this piece, it would have ended up in a MS 64 slab for sure, which would have made it a 5 figure coin, as you said. It IS quite attractive, nonetheless!!!

[World Colonial]

Well, these coins are slabbed, and from the photos they are not horribly cleaned (not whizzed, etc.) and honestly my guess would be if they were sent in to be certified 10 years ago they'd come back slabbed with a lower net grade.

 

As for their rarity, one of them typically comes up for sale at Heritage about 12-18 times per year, while the other date comes up 3-4 times per year. So while neither is one of the last 1-3 pieces on the market, that's probably not that far off.

 

A coin that comes up for sale 12-18 times per year at Heritage is really not that scarce. I would probably not buy a "problem" coin like that even at 1/3 of the full market price.

 

A coin that comes up for sale 3-4 times at Heritage is by my standards still not necessarily that scarce because it still might sell elsewhere quite a few times. But depending upon the coin, I might buy a "problem" example if it were cheap enough and the eye appeal were decent..