Artificial Toning Question

[coinman_23885]

If a coin is artificially toned and there are no underlying surface detriments, can the coin be conserved by a successful dipping? Is it possible to end up from a details "artificially toned" holder to a graded coin?

[MarkFeld]

Yes, often, it is possible, depending upon what has been done to the coin.

 

However, while some toning is added to cons in order to make them more attractive, in many instances, it is done in order to cover up flaws. So, for example, if the toning is removed, you might have an AT/MS63 looking coin change to a dipped/AU55 looking one.

[bsshog40]

Just to add also that most liquids used to AT can be dipped but I would think that AT'd coins via heat would probably have already damaged the surfaces.

[michael]

agree with mark feld

 

[acan451]

Another Kennedy for my album

Now the seller said it is natural, but I know nothing about toning and though for a few dollars it would be a good lessen.

So is it natural or not?

Alan

Alan

[bsshog40]

No Alan it is not. It actually looks like this coin was dipped and never rinsed to me. This is usually what gives the splottchy colors.

[MarkFeld]

Another Kennedy for my album

Now the seller said it is natural, but I know nothing about toning and though for a dollar it would be a good lessen.

So is it natural or not?

Alan

Alan

Alan, I can't guarantee you that I am correct, but that coin looks blatantly AT to me.

[AnkurJ]

I think if a coin is AT'd by heating it, it cannot be removed.

[acan451]

What I don't understand is the seller is selling toned coins.

Now he has many sales and only two negative feed backs, and nothing to do with toning.

So how will I know if a coin is natural or not.Thanks

Alan

[PerryHall]

Sometimes AT is used to hide hairlines from an old cleaning.

[BKW]

What I don't understand is the seller is selling toned coins.

Now he has many sales and only two negative feed backs, and nothing to do with toning.

So how will I know if a coin is natural or not.Thanks

Alan

 

If you're buying NGC or PCGS graded coins, hopefully they will be able to sniff out AT for you. If you're buying raw coins, you will have to learn the characteristics of AT vs NT. I'm definitely no expert on this subject but here is a link to get you started:

 

What You Need To Know - Characteristics of AT/NT

 

 

[MarkFeld]

What I don't understand is the seller is selling toned coins.

Now he has many sales and only two negative feed backs, and nothing to do with toning.

So how will I know if a coin is natural or not.Thanks

Alan

If you didn't think the coin that you posted was AT, you probably shouldn't be buying uncertified coins of any significant value. Study a lot of coins, both those which have been deemed to be AT and those which are generally accepted by knowledgeable numismatists as natural. Over time, you will learn the differences, even though, in a number of cases, there is no "right" answer.

 

I have seen many terrible sellers on Ebay, who sell badly over-graded and/or counterfeit and/or AT coins, yet have great looking feedback scores. That is because, in many cases, the people who are buying from them don't know what they're doing. They think they are getting good deals, when in fact, they are getting very bad ones.

[Buffalo Head]

What I don't understand is the seller is selling toned coins.

Now he has many sales and only two negative feed backs, and nothing to do with toning.

So how will I know if a coin is natural or not.Thanks

Alan

If you didn't think the coin that you posted was AT, you probably shouldn't be buying uncertified coins of any significant value. Study a lot of coins, both those which have been deemed to be AT and those which are generally accepted by knowledgeable numismatists as natural. Over time, you will learn the differences, even though, in a number of cases, there is no "right" answer.

 

I have seen many terrible sellers on Ebay, who sell badly over-graded and/or counterfeit and/or AT coins, yet have great looking feedback scores. That is because, in many cases, the people who are buying from them don't know what they're doing. They think they are getting good deals, when in fact, they are getting very bad ones.

 

YEP!!!!!!!!!! Don't spend your money on raw coins until you research and study this REALLY helps. For now I would focus on slabed coins and handle as many as you can, like coin shows or B&M. Talk to people that know what theitr talking about, like Mark Feld. The coin your bought is AT and I'm am sure as I can be looking at the image you've posted and all agree.

[acan451]

Thank you All

This is how I like to learn, even if it cost a few dollars.

I would never buy a expensive coin with out knowing about it first.

Most of my coins are slabbed, except for the Jefferson's I buy

for my Dansco, and thous I do know.

Again thanks to the people on these forms who take the time and trouble to answer questions.

Alan

[James_OldeTowne]

If a coin is artificially toned and there are no underlying surface detriments, can the coin be conserved by a successful dipping? Is it possible to end up from a details "artificially toned" holder to a graded coin?

The removal of AT is most likely to require more than conservation (which does not alter the coin), and will require cleaning instead (a form of doctoring).

 

In other words, if the coin is already messed up by AT, which is a damaging process, then it is likely to require another damaging process (cleaning, or acid dip) to remove the effects of the first damaging process. Or if a strong acid dip doesn't do the job, then the required coin doctoring could become even more drastic, perhaps as a baking-soda cleaning.

 

Either way, an ATed coin is one step removed from being original, and will likely become two steps removed after it has been additionally cleaned of the artificial tone.

 

(And of course, as you can tell, I believe that dipping in acid is a form of coin doctoring, albeit one [unfortunately] accepted by many collectors.)

[physics-fan3.14]

What I don't understand is the seller is selling toned coins.

Now he has many sales and only two negative feed backs, and nothing to do with toning.

So how will I know if a coin is natural or not.Thanks

Alan

 

You cannot judge sellers like this by their feedback. People who know about AT will not buy these coins; people who do not know will buy and think they are great. Because they don't know any better, they will leave excellent feedback, thinking they bought great coins for a good deal.

[James_OldeTowne]

Also, contrary to the opinion that likely prevails for more sophisticated collectors, there truly is a segment of the collecting population that LIKES ATed coins. And, they have a right to collect what they like.

[MarkFeld]

Also, contrary to the opinion that likely prevails for more sophisticated collectors, there truly is a segment of the collecting population that LIKES ATed coins. And, they have a right to collect what they like.

They absolutely have a right to like and collect whatever they want. However, many buyers of AT coins don't realize that that is what they're buying.

[coinman_23885]

What I don't understand is the seller is selling toned coins.

Now he has many sales and only two negative feed backs, and nothing to do with toning.

So how will I know if a coin is natural or not.Thanks

Alan

 

If you're buying NGC or PCGS graded coins, hopefully they will be able to sniff out AT for you. If you're buying raw coins, you will have to learn the characteristics of AT vs NT. I'm definitely no expert on this subject but here is a link to get you started:

 

What You Need To Know - Characteristics of AT/NT

 

 

The item that I am looking at is in an NGC uncirculated holder for artificial toning. The toning isn't too deep, so I was curious if it would be possible to see any hairlines through the toning.

 

Thanks for all of the advice everyone!

 

EDITED to add: upon review, the coin is already up to more than I would be willing to risk on the piece in question.

[Kurtdog]

If a coin is artificially toned and there are no underlying surface detriments, can the coin be conserved by a successful dipping? Is it possible to end up from a details "artificially toned" holder to a graded coin?

Years ago, before the onset of market grading, that's precisely what many of the dealers did with their toned coins. I don't know that the hobby called that "conserved," necessarily; rather, we called it what it was, "dipped."

[jom]

Also, contrary to the opinion that likely prevails for more sophisticated collectors, there truly is a segment of the collecting population that LIKES ATed coins. And, they have a right to collect what they like.

They absolutely have a right to like and collect whatever they want. However, many buyers of AT coins don't realize that that is what they're buying.

 

Agree. Clearly such buyers would NOT support such prices on coins if they KNEW these coins were AT. Isn't it difficult to sell a "Genuine" coin...labeled say a "91"? If collectors thought highly of AT coins wouldn't these "rejected" coins sell well? As it is most avoid these coins like the plague...it's almost better to crack them out.

 

The "safety" of the slab rules all!

 

jom

[Kurtdog]

Also, contrary to the opinion that likely prevails for more sophisticated collectors, there truly is a segment of the collecting population that LIKES ATed coins. And, they have a right to collect what they like.

Tell you something about these so-called "sophisticated collectors," James. Not one of them I've ever met is sophisticated enough in terms of simple diction to understand the term "arbitrary" is made-to-order their little devil-of-a-standard, "AT," much less to appreciate the significance, thereof. They're totally clueless, there.