Help me grade Grampa's coins? (Morgan, Peace, etc)

[Lastufka Collection]

I've collected modern slabbed coins for a few years, but I recently inherited my grandpa's old collection of raw coins. He passed away a few years ago, but my stepdad just recently handed the collection over to me.

 

I've been working my way through it all, started with the Morgans and Peace dollars, moved on to the Franklin halves and some of the dimes. There are a lot of coins here, over 32 oz so far of silver content!

 

Most of the coins are worn, dirty, unattractively toned and in fine to very fine condition only.

 

I've been pulling out a few of the gems though that caught my eye, and before I submit any to be graded, I was wondering if you could help me estimate the grades. I don't usually deal with raw coins, so I don't have the eyes for estimating a grade yet (I just know what looks good and what doesn't).

 

I used a letter to distinguish each coin, because there are some doubles of same year/mintmarks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS. The 1909 VDB cent is in a basement grading company's slab, so I'm treating it as raw.

 

If the estimated grades are high enough to bother sending in to NGC, I will, if not, I'll keep them in grandpa's folders.

[James_OldeTowne]

Without addressing specifics, I can tell you that it will be a waste of hard-earned money to get these certified.

 

Keep your money, and enjoy your grandfather's coins !

[physics-fan3.14]

These are all circulated, badly damaged, harshly cleaned, or otherwise very common.

 

The Lincoln cent doesn't look too bad, though.

[Lastufka Collection]

Okay, thanks guys, that's what I needed to know. =)

[zboyle04]

the dollars appear to not have any luster, maybe just the lighting, but the first 1923 is uncirculated but almost certainly cleaned, thus just worth bullion value. The next 1923 is uncirculated with a weird rim, either damaged or partially struck, that is not my area of expertise. The last 1923 has numerous rim marks, may not even grade, if it did, AU58 at best, more likely to get a AU 53 or 55. The 1889 morgan dollar has some rim damage as well, maybe even someone tried to repair it, grade wise, probably AU53.

 

as the others said, nothing worth sending to NGC

[Coindude]

I agree with the other, harshly cleaned or not worth grading. The only one that might be worth much is the 1909 cent, but cost prohibitive to slab.

[Lastufka Collection]

If anyone has the time to play teacher, how can I tell if a coin has been cleaned or not?

[BillJones]

If anyone has the time to play teacher, how can I tell if a coin has been cleaned or not?

 

This is hard to explain in words in the third person (not standing over your shoulder) to someone who has had little experiece with coins, but I'll try to get you started.

 

Coins are stuck under many tons of pressure. For example it took 100 tons of pressure to strike a silver half dollar. During the striking process the metal flows between the dies. This creates contours on the surface of the coin that play with the light when you swirl a coin under the light source. These swirls give the coin a moving cartwheel effect. Here are a couple of pictures to show you what I mean. The light swirls are the lighter areas in the photograph, and they move as the coin is swirled.

 

Morgan Dollar

 

 

Peace Dollar

 

 

Franklin Half Dollar

 

 

The original mint surface cannot be replaced once it has been disturbed. The trained numismatic eye will spot it. Two things can destroy mint luster. The coin has been used in circulation and the original mint surface has been worn off the piece, or the coin has been cleaned and the cleaning removed the mint surface.

 

On the pieces that you posted, the Peace dollars had what appears to be all of their detail, but the surfaces have no luster. When you swirl the coins you don’t get the cartwheel affect. The cent you posted appears to have its original surface, and its surfaces will play with the light.

 

There is your first lesson, and believe me this is only the beginning of what you need to learn. But if you get this down, you will know more than a great many collectors.

 

[Coindude]

Excellent description there Bill. Also, check out the Peace Dollar, top picture. You can actually see cleaning lines running in the fields and across Lady Liberty's cheek and neck.

[Lastufka Collection]

Thanks, that helps quite a bit.

[mtnstyne]

The 1889 morgan looks like the barwing variation which at least gets a small premium

[comicdonna]

If anyone has the time to play teacher, how can I tell if a coin has been cleaned or not?

 

This is hard to explain in words in the third person (not standing over your shoulder) to someone who has had little experiece with coins, but I'll try to get you started.

 

Coins are stuck under many tons of pressure. For example it took 100 tons of pressure to strike a silver half dollar. During the striking process the metal flows between the dies. This creates contours on the surface of the coin that play with the light when you swirl a coin under the light source. These swirls give the coin a moving cartwheel effect. Here are a couple of pictures to show you what I mean. The light swirls are the lighter areas in the photograph, and they move as the coin is swirled.

 

Morgan Dollar

 

 

Peace Dollar

 

 

Franklin Half Dollar

 

 

The original mint surface cannot be replaced once it has been disturbed. The trained numismatic eye will spot it. Two things can destroy mint luster. The coin has been used in circulation and the original mint surface has been worn off the piece, or the coin has been cleaned and the cleaning removed the mint surface.

 

On the pieces that you posted, the Peace dollars had what appears to be all of their detail, but the surfaces have no luster. When you swirl the coins you don’t get the cartwheel affect. The cent you posted appears to have its original surface, and its surfaces will play with the light.

 

There is your first lesson, and believe me this is only the beginning of what you need to learn. But if you get this down, you will know more than a great many collectors.

This post should be placed in the "What you need to know about coin collecting" forum.

[chinook]

I grade them as follows....

 

 

A. $26

B. $26

C. $26

D. $27

E. $12.50

F. $2.50

G. $22

 

 

[noow]

The 1909 VDB is definitely worth sending in, it looks to have a strong uncirculated red color. A cleaned coin will have

1. No luster

2. No cartwheel

3. Numerous contact marks

4. No value

 

 

 

 

 

17

[L1ncolnF4n]

The 1909 VDB is definitely worth sending in, it looks to have a strong uncirculated red color. A cleaned coin will have

1. No luster

2. No cartwheel

3. Numerous contact marks

4. No value

 

17

 

The VDB is NOT worth sending in, but is a solid MS-64RD by those images. It's cheaper to just buy a 64RD in a slab already, as they cost about the same price as grading does.

[brg5658]

The VDB is NOT worth sending in, but is a solid MS-64RD by those images. It's cheaper to just buy a 64RD in a slab already, as they cost about the same price as grading does.

 

I have never seen an MS64RD 1909 VDB for $20-$30. They go for at least around $80, and usually closer to $100 as far as I've seen. If you need it for a type set or something, and you already own the coin, it seems having your own graded would be better than paying someone $80-$100 for one, IMO.

 

LincolnFan: If you know where I can get an NGC or PCGS MS64RD VDB for $30, let me know.

[L1ncolnF4n]

Heritage has sold 2 within the past month at $39 each ($53 with BP). If you sold that coin raw you'd get about $20, add in $30 for grading and $20 for postage (includes both ways), and you're over the purchase price of a pre-graded one.

[brg5658]

And you sold grandpa's coin in the process. Blasphemy!!

 

And, by the way, one of those $53 (w/ BP) coins you are referring to on Heritage, was a RB example, not a RD example. The AVERAGE of the 4 that have sold on Heritage in MS64RD NGC since June 1, 2011 is $100.12 (with BP). It's pointless to talk about sell prices on Heritage without including the BP.

[L1ncolnF4n]

Maybe that's the running average since June, but if you average the last 4 coins, you come out to $74 with BP. And unless our program is missing results of coins we've sold, that average should be about $93, tallying 8 pieces ranging from $53 to $150.

 

Some of the nicer 64RD's will go higher, with hopes of an upgrade, but it goes to show you that you CAN find coins for $50-60.

 

I've got all the numbers right on my computer, so you don't need to go digging through our auction results archives anymore, just ask.

 

PS I'm not trying to start a fight over numbers, just saying that if you wait, you can poach a nice coin for a good price...so true of collecting in general.

[brg5658]

I've got all the numbers right on my computer, so you don't need to go digging through our auction results archives anymore, just ask.

 

Sorry, I didn't realize you were a Heritage insider.

[L1ncolnF4n]

I've got all the numbers right on my computer, so you don't need to go digging through our auction results archives anymore, just ask.

 

Sorry, I didn't realize you were a Heritage insider.

 

Yea I'm working there over the summer. Pretty cool internship for a coin weenie.