Protect Toned Coins by Destroying the Toned Coin Market

[lehigh96]

So a guy shows up this morning on Cointalk and posts a link to his personal wordpress blog in which he writes:

 

And while I love toned coins, I hate the people who take advantage of everyone else by creating them and selling them for many times the market price of the original coin. So I am going to put them out of business by telling the world exactly how to tone a coin so that nobody but you and god knows it wasn’t toned in an old high sulfur album. If you collect toned coins, I would suggest selling them all before they become worthless, because pretty soon everybody is going to be able to make them in their kitchen. If you really like ‘em you might buy yourself some common date morgans to tone yourself with the money you made selling your old toned coins.

 

I will not post link to his blog but will link the CT thread which includes the link to his blog.

 

How to tone coins

 

Personally, I think this is comical. It is obvious that this guy does not have the skill required to damage the toned coin market. But here is what concerns me. What if someone with expert skill in artificially toning coins decides to do the same thing instead of exploiting their skills for financial gain.

 

[World Colonial]

I am not sure what you mean by damage the market.

 

If you mean that someone is or becomes able to artifically tone coins that cannot be distinguished from those that are naturally toned, and then the increased supply decreases the market value, that to me is simply a risk that goes with buying these coins. To me, it still exists without artificial toning to some extent because these are the only coins that come to mind where the supply can both decrease and increase.

 

If not from a financial standpoint, then I do not see how the market would be damaged. Those who prefer the eye appeal of these coins should not like them less just because there are more of them. They would simply pay less.

 

With the South Africa Union coins I collect, I have been selling them for a similar reason. Not because the number in existence has increased (since that cannot happen) but because the census populations have increased and may increase a lot, though from a low base. I have warned some of my collector colleagues to be careful about paying significant premiums for "top pop", "conditional rarity" or coins nearly so that are otherwise not scarce..There are quite a few of these coins that I sold recently that I expect to be able to buy back for less or much less later.

[WoodenJefferson]

There appeared to be some posters in that thread that don't have a clue about coin trends or how it effects the hobby, financially & socially. I suspect they are not seasoned enough to fully grasp these concepts. To have a login-in password and a key board suddenly makes them expert in the field.

 

I had to chuckle about about the comments made about Shane...this proves my point about some of them being clueless.

[lehigh96]

There appeared to be some posters in that thread that don't have a clue about coin trends or how it effects the hobby, financially & socially. I suspect they are not seasoned enough to fully grasp these concepts. To have a login-in password and a key board suddenly makes them expert in the field.

 

I had to chuckle about about the comments made about Shane...this proves my point about some of them being clueless.

 

Here is my reward for standing up for Shane:

 

[WoodenJefferson]

Well, that's unfortunate, it's those forums who are at a loss though, your knowledge and fervor with a certain denomination is priceless. Looks like you will have more time to post here now, you are always welcome.

 

[MJ]

Wow, what a thread. Paul, I could actually "feel" you pounding your fingers into the keys as you typed! Lot's of maroons in that thread. Good on you for defending Shane................MJ

[jom]

I went to the guy's blog and the only pictures I saw showed blatantly AT'd coins. I'm not sure what point he's trying to make...I've seen obvious AT'd coins for years and I'm sure that will continue. Big deal.

 

The thread at this CoinTalk forum just proves to me again that the subject of AT'd coin is way blown out of proportion...

 

jom

[TonerGuy]

AT, NT, MA .... the never ending debate. Why some people hate toned coins is beyond me. Why some people hate other collectors that are willing to pay a premium for such is further beyond me.

 

I have tried some of his experiments and can honestly say those coins would never get into NGC or PCGS plastic. Hell, I cant even get NT coins I pull from albums in slabs on occasion now.

 

My advice to anyone wanting to collect toned coins - educate yourself in regards to your series. Every coin series tones differently, even years within the series tone differently. Know your series and dont try to apply truths of one series to another....

 

 

[cpm9ball]

Geez, Paul, I'm really sorry it came to that. I've always enjoyed your posts and your knowledge.

 

Never in my life have I come across as many "im-beh-sills" on one forum as I have on CT, and it is like pulling teeth from an elephant to get them to understand anything.

 

Not to change the subject, but it was the very same on the thread "Is it legal" when almost everyone said the person should keep the money for selling a fake 1916-D Merc to a coin shop instead of giving them a refund. It didn't make one bit of difference to them that case law was cited which supported the refund. Condor, Doug and I tried to make them understand, but I think they're too intelligence-challenged to grasp anything other than roll-searching. I was almost to the point of losing my cool on that one.

 

Unfortunately, I don't know who is better off.........you for being banned or me for still having to read garbage like that.

 

Chris

[JStull]

 

Here is my reward for standing up for Shane:

 

 

From where I stand, or sit as the case may be, it will be their loss, and other's gain as already stated your deep of knowledge is exceptional that anyone could stand to learn from.

 

I never registered at that forum, but did do some reading there and found it to be with too many arrogant members.

[physics-fan3.14]

Really? They banned you Paul? You were one of the very few knowledgeable and logical people on those boards? I left CT a while ago, because for the most part the drivel was overwhelming - repetitive, inane, mindless, hostile dreariness.

[MarkFeld]

What a sad turn of events for that forum. Whether they realize it or not, they have suffered a significant loss.

[kryptonitecomics]

Thank you for defending me Paul...I have to admit I haven't even checked out the thread yet...and I don't know if I want to as if they ruffle my feathers I might get the boot as well

[kryptonitecomics]

Ok...just read threw it...thread is closed so I can't post....I will have to tell my consigners from all of the country to stop sending me AT coins as my reputation is being trashed

[cpm9ball]

I guess I was busy doing something else when this thread reached the boiling point. I made my feelings known very early, and then bowed out.

 

There are just too many people over there with questionable morals, ethics, integrity, honesty, etc (take your pick!).....oh, I forgot the most important.........the brains to know that you shouldn't pick your nose in public or at the dinner table.

 

It so often seems that an intelligent conversation over there usually ends up making me think of the old adage, You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. However, over there, the adage should be, You can lead a to water, but in the end, it's still a !

 

I told one of the other mods that if I had been present at the time, I probably would have been banned, too!

 

Chris

[Mark T]

I cannot believe you were banned for those posts.

I always thought Coin Talk was basically useless – this turn of events confirms it .

 

[cpm9ball]

I cannot believe you were banned for those posts.

I always thought Coin Talk was basically useless – this turn of events confirms it .

 

It does serve its purpose. Where else can you take your roadkill to find out if you have a valuable error?

 

Chris

[lehigh96]

I cannot believe you were banned for those posts.

I always thought Coin Talk was basically useless – this turn of events confirms it .

 

Actually you can't see the posts for which I was banned because the moderator deleted them from the thread. However, since I had already received a warning, they were very mild in tone. Here are the three posts that got me banned, they are in red. They are not word for word, but pretty close.

 

Post #1 was in response to Dollar1948 who was complaining because he thought he was given an infraction unfairly.

 

You are not an innocent party in this dispute. In fact, your accusation that Shane is coin doctor, basically started this whole mess. Get off your high horse.

 

Post #2 was in response to Dollar1948 calling me an obnoxious immature knuckle dragging neanderthal and tellin me that if Shane had a problem with what he wrote, Shane should take it up with him and that it was none of my business.

 

Obnoxious knuckledragging neanderthal huh? that is a clear violation of the Cointalk rules.

 

Don't lecture me on maturity, you know nothing about it. My objection to your attacks on Shane have nothing to do with a personal allegiance and are more related to a future consignment.

 

Post #3 was in response to Dollar1948 insinuating that I myself would be AT'ing my coins before selling them through Shane!

 

What was that you were saying about maturity?

 

If the moderator wanted any further discussion to stop, he should have issued the infractions and locked the thread. Allowing the posting to continue and then giving infractions for posts that do not even violate forum rules is absurd.

 

I started the day as one of the most respected core members on the entire forum. I ended the day being banned for basically nothing in a thread that was posted by a new member whose sole intent was to start a flame war. That thread was his very first post on Cointalk and even states in his subsequent posts that when he tried to post the same thread on the CU forum, he was banned immediately.

 

 

It should be noted that this thread was posted here prior to me being banned from Cointalk and I did not intend this thread to be a griping session about my banning. However, since posts were deleted from the original thread, I felt it necessary to set the record straight.

 

Paul

 

[cpm9ball]

I think desertgem overreacted and got off on his power kick.

 

Chris

[jom]

I haven't posted here or at CU a lot the last few years and I've never heard of CoinTalk (or at least can't remember anything about it). Is it a relatively new forum? Anyway, It sounds like a wonderful place...

 

Getting into idiotic arguments online is just a waste of time. I thought these places were a place to learn or give info to help others. It seems the NT vs AT and the "grading" issue of TPGs create a lot of anger. Kind of funny since I think both subjects are way blown out of proportion...always has been. Oh well....

 

jom

[cpm9ball]

CT has been around since 2002 or so, but the day care center is relatively new.

 

Chris

[Rigo-migration]

 

That is absurd and a very poor judgment by the mod (desertgem). I don't understand how Doug or Peter allowed this to happen. Either way, it is a huge loss for CoinTalk as its reputation for poor judgment is starting to be well known. They have allowed uneducated member/s to try and defame dealers and collectors who have been in the business and collecting in general for many many years without doing anything about it but then again, they allow coin doctors to post and name call others like if they were little girls.

 

Good thing forums such as this one have not allowed these kind of uneducated kids/trolls to last here very long. Lehigh, I am here for you sir and I have learned a lot from you and others in my road to better judgment in regards to toned coins and coin collecting in general.

[jom]

CT has been around since 2002 or so, but the day care center is relatively new.

 

That long, eh? I still don't remember them. I guess I thought here and CU were enough places to post. I do remember a toned collectors forum but I don't know what happened to that...

 

jom

[gmarguli]

CT has been around since 2002 or so, but the day care center is relatively new.

 

That long, eh? I still don't remember them. I guess I thought here and CU were enough places to post. I do remember a toned collectors forum but I don't know what happened to that...

 

It was put out of business by all the toned coins this guy made.

 

Actually, Coin Talk isn't bad. It's just heavily populated with collectors that are much closer to the entry level of this hobby. Therefore, it's much harder to convince them they are wrong even in the face of clear proof.

[kryptonitecomics]

CT has been around since 2002 or so, but the day care center is relatively new.

 

That long, eh? I still don't remember them. I guess I thought here and CU were enough places to post. I do remember a toned collectors forum but I don't know what happened to that...

 

It was put out of business by all the toned coins this guy made.

 

Actually, Coin Talk isn't bad. It's just heavily populated with collectors that are much closer to the entry level of this hobby. Therefore, it's much harder to convince them they are wrong even in the face of clear proof.

 

 

That was actully pretty funny Greg

 

 

Actually the TCCS (Toned Coin Collector Society) is supposed to be relaunched any time now with me as the Mod since we found a copy of the site on a server that was not infected with a VIRUS (thumbs u

[Mark T]

Occasionally a post will wind up on the EBAY forum questioning a vividly toned certified coin from an EBAY listing. Kryptonites coins have been questioned, I was always quick to come to his defense.

[cpm9ball]

CT has been around since 2002 or so, but the day care center is relatively new.

 

That long, eh? I still don't remember them. I guess I thought here and CU were enough places to post. I do remember a toned collectors forum but I don't know what happened to that...

 

It was put out of business by all the toned coins this guy made.

 

Actually, Coin Talk isn't bad. It's just heavily populated with collectors that are much closer to the entry level of this hobby. Therefore, it's much harder to convince them they are wrong even in the face of clear proof.

 

 

That was actully pretty funny Greg

 

 

Actually the TCCS (Toned Coin Collector Society) is supposed to be relaunched any time now with me as the Mod since we found a copy of the site on a server that was not infected with a VIRUS (thumbs u

 

Shane, when the TCCS site is relaunched, you should make a list of the names of those on CT who harrassed Paul and slandered you and bar them for life from the new TCCS.

 

By the way, as a mod, will you be like Arch or desertgem?

 

Chris

[ChrisF-migration]

Paul,

 

Sorry to hear what happened on CT. Internet trolls can be vicious. Doug posted that the message sent to you only indicated a 30 day ban, so hopefully you can come back then.

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

Paul,

 

Sorry to hear what happened on CT. Internet trolls can be vicious. Doug posted that the message sent to you only indicated a 30 day ban, so hopefully you can come back then.

 

Chris

 

Perhaps desertgem exceeded his authority, but when I spoke to Doug, he informed me that, per Peter's orders, the mods are not allowed to discuss the particulars of an incident with anyone.

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

Dimefreak started a thread over there, and they're posting nickels in Paul's honor.

 

http://www.cointalk.com/t159478/

 

Chris