Conder Collectors - Post Your Images 3 3

[Catbert]

This penny token is about the size of a U.S. silver dollar. Lots of flash on the obverse!

 

 

[Hard Times]

A penny for your thoughts?

 

Edited July 16, 2011 by Hard Times

[Hard Times]

Let the good times roll......

 

 

Edited July 16, 2011 by Hard Times

[HiHoAudio]

I have an example of the Norwich Castle token but yours is a dozen grades better. Plus your photo presentation really makes it pop.

 

Well done!

 

Here's what you get for $35.....

 

 

 

[Yarm]

Spence satirical token - French liberty/British slavery

[Hard Times]

Hi Ho and yarm, Nice! (thumbs u

[brg5658]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the Conders. This is the first one I have acquired, specifically to be a part of my horse-themed set. I'm also new at trying to capture these chocolate-brown babies via photos, so bear with me. Here's my first compilation (left side direct light, right side diffused light).

 

[Hard Times]

Very nice photos of your Yorkie brg! I like the wood grain on the obverse and this is very well struck. All good. (thumbs u

 

Here is an extremely lustrous farthing from Cambridgeshire:

 

[brg5658]

Hello HT, can you tell me, is the die crack on the reverse through the "A" and the "7" normal? Like I said, I'm just now starting to poke around in this arena, and I can see why people get addicted to these. When you have one in hand (even in plastic) they are entrancing!!

[Hard Times]

I am by no means an expert where I can tell you if a die crack is normal, would have to see many examples first which I have not. There are some real specialists out there than can help:

 

Bill McKivor

Jerry Bobbe

Gary Groll to name a few. Google their names, they all have websites where they can be contacted.

 

Also, here is the web address for the CTCC: http://tokenclub.org/

 

 

[Hard Times]

Here is the DH-112 that goes with the 112A in my first post in this thread. I show the 112A below for comparison. The difference between them is the edge, which for the 112, is covered completely in a previous generation holder.

 

 

[Hard Times]

Here is another, this token is oval in shape, has a neat look to it.

 

[brg5658]

Purchased from Catbert on 6/16/2011. He was kind enough to send it off for grading to NGC at my request before then sending it along to me. Exactly 2 months after I had verbal acceptance of my offer, I received it today (8/16/2011). I will say, patience was definitely a virtue in the case of this one. Many thanks to Catbert for his willingness to work with me, and ultimately for his being willing to part with this beautiful piece of history.

 

This token is now the cornerstone of my Horse-themed set, and will be my avatar on coin forums for the foreseeable future. It will remain the #1 listed coin in my Horse-themed set, and will be the only coin/token/medal to feature oversized photos of both the obverse and reverse. All other entries will eventually feature the composite photo of the obverse and reverse, and a 2nd photo with some historic significance. You can see my gallery here: Horse Themed Collection

 

The photos are courtesy of Catbert and the original photographer, Todd Pollock.

 

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This particular token is the D&H 342 version, even though NGC has given it the incorrect D&H 339 attribution. The attribution to D&H 342 is definitive, as the token has the larger boar on the obverse, and the text "PONTHON" is very evident on the dividing exergue line. This particular token is a bronzed proof, with absolutely stunning surfaces, razor sharp details, and pristine edge lettering.

 

Dalton & Hamer list this token as being "Scarce", which corresponds to a mintage of approximately 75-150 pieces, or a comparable Sheldon Rarity of about R4. Listed in Bell's "Commercial Coins 1787-1804" as "RARE", he estimated a mintage of 75 or less struck of these. In summary, this token is quite scarce in general, and given the high grade of this particular specimen, it is possibly one of the finest surviving examples available.

 

Historical context: Christopher Ibberson was the proprietor of this famous old hostelry in High Holborn in the West End of London. It was originally just called the "Blue Boar" and was a starting point for coaches heading North, and the tokens themselves advertise “Mail and Post Coaches to all parts of England”. Ibberson himself must have been a considerable businessman, as the records of the Old Bailey show him twice sitting on the Middlesex Grand Jury: in 1790, and again in 1792. The same records show that the George & Blue Boar was well known locally. In September 1796, Charles Scoldwell stood trial for the theft of two tame ducks, valued at 3s. During cross-examination, the driver of the stage coach from Bedford, who had brought Scoldwell to London, was asked: Is there a more public inn in Holborn, or more coaches go from any inn, except the George and Blue-Boar? to which he replied 'I don’t believe so.' In the event Scoldwell got more transportation than he had bargained for.

 

The Ibberson tokens include a rendering of St George and the Dragon by Ponthon, and a neatly impressed edge inscription, though this was a process which Boulton was gradually abandoning, relying instead on the precision of manufacture and the full weight of his tokens, for their security against counterfeiting. Ibberson ordered half a ton of tokens in December 1794, but by February 1795 wrote again to Boulton, this time to cancel his order ‘as in consequence of what appeared in the Gazette a few evenings ago, there is not a doubt but the Circulation of the new Halfpence will be Stopped.’ In the event, it was not the Circulation but Ibberson’s tokens themselves which were stopped.

 

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FROM DALTON & HAMER:

 

The Ibberson tokens of this design are indexed in Dalton & Hamer with numbers 338 through 343.

 

338. An artist's proof in tin of the obverse die of No. 339 without the boar (unique).

 

339. Obv: St. George killing the dragon, crest, a boar. HOLBORN LONDON (Exergue: C. IBBERSON)

Rev: MAIL. & | POST COACHES | TO ALL PARTS OF | ENGLAND (in four lines with a laurel)

Edge: PAYABLE AT THE GEORGE & BLUE BOAR LONDON.

Also stuck in silver

 

339a. Same as 339, but with milled edge.

 

340. Obv: Same as 339 (or very similar).

Rev: A cypher R W on a shield, hanging on a tree, &c.

 

341. Obv: Same as 339 (or very similar).

Rev: No.— | SIX | PENCE | 1800 (unique, in British museum).

 

342. Obv : Similar to last, but the boar is larger, and with PONTHON in minute letters on the exergue line.

Rev: The same as No. 339.

Edge: The same as No. 339.

Also struck in silver.

 

343 and 343Bis. Obv: An imitation struck by Taylor of Holborn about 1870, has a small boar, and is

without saddle-cloth. Ex: G. JBBERSON. Rev: Similar to No. 339, but the letters are narrower. Edge: Plain (in collar).

Struck in brass, copper, and white-metal. 343 Bis is similar, but reads C. IBBERSON.

[Conder101]

Nice to know NGC still can't do easy attributions of Conder tokens and we should still not trust them.

[brg5658]

Nice to know NGC still can't do easy attributions of Conder tokens and we should still not trust them.

 

I only own 4 Conders, all graded by NGC. Two have the correct attribution, and the other two don't. I guess it's a coin toss?

[Catbert]

Well, I must say you have a mighty fine piece there BRG. I hated to say goodbye, but given your horse themed set and my need for cash for the ANA show, it was time. I like how you've used it for your avatar and added the gleaming shield.....COOL!

[brg5658]

Well, I must say you have a mighty fine piece there BRG. I hated to say goodbye, but given your horse themed set and my need for cash for the ANA show, it was time. I like how you've used it for your avatar and added the gleaming shield.....COOL!

 

Haha, thanks Catbert. I loved the design of the token so much, I figured it would make a great avatar. I just spiced it up a little bit in Photoshop with an animated lens flare.

[Yarm]

I thought I'd take the opportunity to post another Middlesex 342, also attributed as Middlesex 339 by NGC despite the large boar. This example was designated PL rather than proof.

 

[brg5658]

I thought I'd take the opportunity to post another Middlesex 342, also attributed as Middlesex 339 by NGC despite the large boar. This example was designated PL rather than proof.

 

Hi Yarm, nice 342! Can you tell me what your avatar is? I've been looking at your horse, and I'm a bit jealous. It's small enough that I can't quite tell what it is.

 

Thanks! ~Brandon

[Hard Times]

Nice horses folks!

 

Best, HT

[Yarm]

Cambridgeshire 9 is a private token engraved by Hancock and issued by James Burleigh. According to D&H,

"The obverse gives us a representation of the celebrated Cambridge carrier, Thomas Hobson; and the reverse,

the handsome stone conduit he erected in the market-place. ...He also kept a livery stable, and had about 40 horses.

It was an inalterable rule that each horse should have an equal share of rest and work, and that no horse

should be let out before its turn; hence the proverbial saying "Hobson's choice," viz.---"this or none."

 

[brg5658]

Cambridgeshire 9 is a private token engraved by Hancock and issued by James Burleigh.

 

It's gorgeous! Thanks for posting. (thumbs u

[Catbert]

Here is another, this token is oval in shape, has a neat look to it.

 

 

I REALLY like the cool dentils on this token. Too bad one never sees such on any early U.S. copper.

[Hard Times]

Catbert, yeah I like them dentils and the shape, plus the rich toning. All of these attracted me to this one. Did you go to Ron Sirna's table at ANA? He had around 200 high grade Conders. Here is one I got from him:

 

Die cracks, die polish lines, repunched letters, mis-spellings, you name it.

 

[Yarm]

Cool pieces! In addition to having extraordinary dentils, the Wiltshire 1/2P looks "dished" on both sides!

 

 

[HiHoAudio]

Yarm, your Cambridgeshire 9 is truly a thing of beauty.

 

I picked up an extremely nice Pidcocks Middlesex 1073 farthing last month that may well grade MS65, the strike, color and details are nothing short of amazing.

 

As soon as I get some free time I'll photograph it and post the images here.

[brg5658]

Here are a few nice dentils also.

 

[Hard Times]

brg, your General Elliot has one impressive nose I would say, nice token! (thumbs u

[brg5658]

This one came from England today, and I just had a chance to snap some photos. It's my first move into raw Conders, and I really like it. It's a nice "Milled right" version of the Middlesex Lyceum token (estimated to be RR, as it was added later to the D&H). Any comments on whether people agree with this rarity would be appreciated. Thanks for looking!

[brg5658]

 

Any Conder collectors out there know anything else about the rarity of that Lyceum I posted above? Thanks.