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A Very STOOPID And costly Mistake

45 posts in this topic

ON the 2nd of Jul 2010 I took a St Gaudens, (two) 2008 $50 Gold Buffalos and a couple of Buffalo nickels to a coin shop in Oklahoma City. After I arrived home I looked at the receipt and the owner entered everything correct on the slip except...he entered a 1909W $10. I figured he made a mistake and I overlooked it for the time being. I called the shop repeatedly and was told "I forgot to send it to PCGS." After repeated calling, I ws told the coins had returned and were ready for pickup and this was Nov 2010. I went to pick up the coins and he asked for the refeipt and I gave it to him and he handed me all the coins I had submitted except one was a 2009W $10.

Now the W$10 is worth more than a 09 gold buff except if it had the "W." I didn't say anything because the receipt had 1909W $10 but I suspect I handed him initally a 2008W $50 gold Bufalo. I was hesitant to let you guys know about my being so dumb and being taken but you should know especially if you deal with a coin shop in Oklahoma City that is on 29th Street. 29th Street is a long street and there may be a couple of coin shops on it but I will not mention the name of the one I dealt with but you locals know who it is. The guy is basically a thief and very dishonest as all thieves are. I am beating myself up because of the loss - probably around two thousand or more so be easy on me. So shame on me as GWB would say...

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I figured if I called back he'd say "That's what you left with me for certification and that's what I had written on the receipt." I could conact the BBB but you know how that goes. I went to another coin dealer earlier ont hat day and he was closed so I took the coins to "this" guy and you know the rest of the story. I have no way of proving that he switch coins giving me the lessor. I have learned a very valuable lesson and that is to trust no one with money-they'll screw you if they get the chance.

If I were a mean guy, I'd go see the guy and force him to cough up the coin but I don't want to go to jail.

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I figured if I called back he'd say "That's what you left with me for certification and that's what I had written on the receipt." I could conact the BBB but you know how that goes. I went to another coin dealer earlier ont hat day and he was closed so I took the coins to "this" guy and you know the rest of the story. I have no way of proving that he switch coins giving me the lessor. I have learned a very valuable lesson and that is to trust no one with money-they'll screw you if they get the chance.

If I were a mean guy, I'd go see the guy and force him to cough up the coin but I don't want to go to jail.

 

Maybe you have witnesses, family members, etc. that would swear that you took the coin to him and would vouch for your honesty and character. I would get local authorities involved. Hell no! I would NOT take it lying down. 2000 bucks is an awfully bitter (and large) pill to swallow.

 

Most coins have unique identifying markers (abrasions, tone, baggies, strike flaws, scratches or anything at all). Did this have any??

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No, identifying characteristics, proof Buffalo. Wife was the only one there and she sat in the car because the joint was in a bad part of town. I'm afraid it's my word against his at this point but, I reckon I should call him and let him know I'm aware of what he did. i just thought I'd let you guys know that all dealers aren't honest as are all coin collectors. I feel better just posting this. But I'm still mad.

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i am really sorry to hear of this.... for my own closure i would first go back and talk to him in person

 

and then if need to talk to an attorney see what your legal recourse is

 

maybe?/ nothing but again i am really sorry

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Would you pm me the name of the shop so i never go there again, I frequent a lot of shops around the oklahoma city area when I visit my sister.

 

I would definitely confront him. Just tell him the situation and if he is not willing to admit his mistake, then tell him that you will report him to the proper authorities. Police, gov. business agencies, even coin dealer networks or local media. Then he may cave and give it back to you. Tell him that there will be no reprisals and that you just want your property back. Don't make him feel threatened but just firmly reassure him that he WILL be investigated.....no dealer/business person wants that headache.

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Well, as par for the course, I’m sort of lost.

 

Taken

1-St. Gaudens

2-2008 $50 Buffalos (gold)

2-Buffalo nickels

 

Slip entries

All correct except

1-coin listed as a 1909W $10 (gold)

 

Nov Pick-up

All correct except

1-coin was a 2009W $10 (gold)

 

You state the 2009W $10 gold is worth more than the $50 Gold Buffalo

 

Note: the W$10 is worth more than a 09 gold buff except if it had the "W."

 

Are you saying the 2009 $10 (gold) did not have the West Point mint mark?

 

I’m lost.

 

Thanks

 

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The shop is called Browns. Jerry is the owner. I would call him and see what he has to say. I don't feel he would switch a coin on purpose. I don't think he would do something that stupid. Hope you can work it out.

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The shop is called Browns. Jerry is the owner. I would call him and see what he has to say. I don't feel he would switch a coin on purpose. I don't think he would do something that stupid. Hope you can work it out.

 

How would one accidentally switch coins?

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I figured if I called back he'd say "That's what you left with me for certification and that's what I had written on the receipt." I could conact the BBB but you know how that goes. I went to another coin dealer earlier ont hat day and he was closed so I took the coins to "this" guy and you know the rest of the story. I have no way of proving that he switch coins giving me the lessor. I have learned a very valuable lesson and that is to trust no one with money-they'll screw you if they get the chance.

If I were a mean guy, I'd go see the guy and force him to cough up the coin but I don't want to go to jail.

 

With no proof, you're pretty much out of luck. It doesn't sound like you have enough evidence for a law suit, and certainly no prosecutor would go after him criminally. It is pretty much your word against his. I"m am so, so sorry to hear of your misfortune. Maybe you could talk to him, but if he is dishonest to begin with, then this may be futile. Good luck.

 

In the future, make sure to keep detailed records and make sure that the receipt accurately represents the items submitted. Better yet, join the PCGS collector club and submit the coins yourself. I know it costs extra money, but this is trivial compared to the $2k that you lost. Sorry again.

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I'm going to call him on Monday and see what he says. And Woodenjefferson, the 2008w$10 is worth more than the "plain" $50 gold buffalo but if the one I took in is the W I've been had. I can't be sure it had the w but since he gave me the $10W Buff I can ony asume it was the W since I didn't bring in a $10 Buff. And, PGCS had "first Strike" on the label...? I don't understand this, how would they know it was first strike? It was produced in 2008. I was stupid. And I am planning on joining PCGS, it's more reasonable since I have several coins to send in and a dealer charges $5.00 per coin.

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I'm going to call him on Monday and see what he says. And Woodenjefferson, the 2008w$10 is worth more than the "plain" $50 gold buffalo but if the one I took in is the W I've been had. I can't be sure it had the w but since he gave me the $10W Buff I can ony asume it was the W since I didn't bring in a $10 Buff. And, PGCS had "first Strike" on the label...? I don't understand this, how would they know it was first strike? It was produced in 2008. I was stupid. And I am planning on joining PCGS, it's more reasonable since I have several coins to send in and a dealer charges $5.00 per coin.

 

Wait....are you saying that you're not even sure what you gave him?? You better be sure before you call him on it.

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I'm going to call him on Monday and see what he says. And Woodenjefferson, the 2008w$10 is worth more than the "plain" $50 gold buffalo but if the one I took in is the W I've been had. I can't be sure it had the w but since he gave me the $10W Buff I can ony asume it was the W since I didn't bring in a $10 Buff. And, PGCS had "first Strike" on the label...? I don't understand this, how would they know it was first strike? It was produced in 2008. I was stupid. And I am planning on joining PCGS, it's more reasonable since I have several coins to send in and a dealer charges $5.00 per coin.

This is getting a bit tough to follow. In the OP post it was a 2009W $10 and now it's an 08. I also don't understand why you assume the $50 was a W.

 

Now to show you how stupid I am. What is the difference between one with and without the W?

 

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There were no coins marked W in 1909. W stands for West Point.

 

The coins minted here made their first appearance in Sept. 1983 (from this still unofficial U.S. Mint; no MM) on a $10 gold coin commemorating the 1984 Los Angeles Olympic Games. This was the first legal tender U.S. gold coin since 1933.

 

In 1986, American Gold Eagle bullion coins were produced at this facility, again with no mint mark. The West Point Bullion Depository was granted mint status on March 31, 1988 and this MM has appeared ever since.

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You still have the original receipt?

 

If you do, you need to go back and tell the dealer you received a 2009 $10 gold by mistake and that you want the 1909W $10 gold as was listed on the original receipt.

 

Simple, if he can't produce one, which he can't, tell him you'd like your original $50 Buffalo in exchange.

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After a little checking, I think I understand the W Mint mark on these. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

 

The 2008 $50 without the W was the normal UNC bullion coin that had to be bought from a bullion dealer. The Mint did not offer these to the collectors.

 

The 2008-W $50 was the burnished UNC collector version. It came in the fancy box and had to be bought from the Mint.

 

Dukedog, is it possible one of $50 ones you took in was the collector version you or someone else removed from the fancy mint packaging? If I'm thinking right the W collector version would have been in a Mint capsule and the regular bullion coin

would not have been. What did you take in? Where did they come from?

If you got a $10W, you won. If you took in a $50W you lost.

 

Please don't take me wrong. I don't have a side in this but there are too many questions to understand what happened.

 

 

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Yes, that would be the way to do it but he wanted my copy of the receipt so I can't prove a thing. But Mondya I'm calling him as I said and tell him ho embarrassed I am for taking his First Strike $10 and appologised for doing so and then ask him when I can come in to \for the coin exchange to pick up my coin. I try not to offend or anger anyone because when that happens anything can happen and usually things don't go the way one wants them to go.

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I found the two boxes where the US Mint sent the 2008's, one is a "regular" 2008 and the otehr is a red uncirculated box with the COA within 2008W face value $50.

I'm going to the coin dealer on Monday morning and confront him and offer to return the "First Strike" slabbed in 2010 coin dated 2008W $10 which is bogus since PGCS doesn't slab first strikes unless it is wothin 30 days of release. I have a bone to pick with this coin dealer and if he doesn't produce the 2008W, I will file a police report and quite possibly hire a lawyer and it'll cost him more than the pitiful amount the 2008W $50 Bufflao is worth.

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You are correct, there is no way PCGS would put a "First Strike" on the coin you submitted this year, it would have to be submitted in an un-opened shipping box from the US Mint and it would have been referred to as "Early Release" a totally different verbiage.

 

Course the dealer could say, you just substituted the slab, but doing something is better than doing anything.

 

Hint, our leading moderator "Arch" detests any political innuendos, to be used for future reference.

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I found the two boxes where the US Mint sent the 2008's, one is a "regular" 2008 and the otehr is a red uncirculated box with the COA within 2008W face value $50.

I'm going to the coin dealer on Monday morning and confront him and offer to return the "First Strike" slabbed in 2010 coin dated 2008W $10 which is bogus since PGCS doesn't slab first strikes unless it is wothin 30 days of release. I have a bone to pick with this coin dealer and if he doesn't produce the 2008W, I will file a police report and quite possibly hire a lawyer and it'll cost him more than the pitiful amount the 2008W $50 Bufflao is worth. The Communist!!!! He rates along side Obama.

I'm not buying much of this story. If it is true it should have been fixed the day the coins were taken in or at the least when they were picked up. Only you and Jerry know the truth in this deal. There is something really wrong here.

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I found the two boxes where the US Mint sent the 2008's, one is a "regular" 2008 and the otehr is a red uncirculated box with the COA within 2008W face value $50.

I'm going to the coin dealer on Monday morning and confront him and offer to return the "First Strike" slabbed in 2010 coin dated 2008W $10 which is bogus since PGCS doesn't slab first strikes unless it is wothin 30 days of release. I have a bone to pick with this coin dealer and if he doesn't produce the 2008W, I will file a police report and quite possibly hire a lawyer and it'll cost him more than the pitiful amount the 2008W $50 Bufflao is worth. The Communist!!!! He rates along side Obama.

 

But there is the issue of PROOF. If you were to file a lawsuit against him without proof, you may end up losing not only your original $2k but thousands in attorney's fees, not to mention the defendant's attorney's fees if the court sanctions you (they tend not to like lawsuits filed without proof). Obviously this depends on jurisdiction, but this is just a heads up... I can't say that I blame you though.

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And that is the issue, PROOF. I have none, all I can do is go to the shop and attempt to get the guy to be honest. He has the receipt so I hdon't even have that. As a last attempt,I can try to bluff him by telling him that my attorney has a copy of the receipt that I scanned and that the attorney feels there is an attempt to decieve and that in itself by an experienced coin dealer smacks of deception. Other than that, all I can do is forgive the guy-which of course may be hard because even if I forgive him, I will remember -for a long time.

And that my friends is it in a nutshell. Excuse me for ranting and getting somewhat "political" l in a previous post but at leat you know where I stand politically. It won't happen again, you guys have been real gentlemen and I respect you for not slamming my ignorance about coins. We all start knowing very little and we build on that. I am going to see the coin dealer tomorrow and see what character he has and I'll let you know what happens.

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Leave the weapons at home, bring all the coins involved, wait until it's just you two in the store, then, the first thing to ask him, "Do you remember me?" Go from there, just keep your cool and idle threats (he will be able to perceive those) will fall on deaf ears.

 

Ask him nicely to make you whole again.

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Woodenjefferson, I will not bring a weapon, that would be foolhardy. I have the coin in hand and I'm taking th e2008W $50 box and if he decides he doesn't want to be honest, I'll give him the box since he already has my coin. Then I'm going home and someday buy another 2008W $50 Gold Buffalo. I liked the Buffalo Nickels when I was a kid for some reason and still like those buffalos on the coins and it happens they're on the gold ones now.

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