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With the upcoming registry changes for Jefferson nickels...

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... should all PCGS attributed FS coins be considered 5 steppers?

 

I guess I think so, even hough I have half a dozen or so that are 6 steppers! (At least until PCGS follows suit!) For the most part, PCGS graded coins that are attributed FS are 5 or 5+ step coins, but not 6 FS.

 

This would make the NGC registries all-the-more interesting and competative. (I'm all for friendly competition! grin.gif)

 

Whaddayasay?

 

Hoot

 

p.s. For those of you who have not read NGC's announcement, here it is: NGC Distinguishes Jefferson Nickel Steps Grrrrrreat! stuff!

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As you and I both know (from our other side posts), PCGS may or may not follow suit. IIMO (and others) that they will have to, sooner or later. And for the sake of appearances, they will probably wait awhile before they do. confused-smiley-013.gif

 

IMO, it is because the 5FS and 6FS attribute makes such perfect sense for the Jeff series, that ALL TPGs will eventually do this. 893crossfingers-thumb.gif

 

And the sooner the better! thumbsup2.gif

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Yes, but for the interim, do you think that in the NGC registry that all PCGS graded full step nickels should only be regarded as 5fs nickels? 893whatthe.gif After all, NGC will be making the distinction in the registry and awarding more points to 6fs coins. thumbsup2.gif

 

Hoot

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Hoot---

 

do you think that in the NGC registry that all PCGS graded full step nickels should only be regarded as 5fs nickels?

 

Yes, unless someone makes the decision to include those marked FS but after examination, prove to be a 6FS. Don't think that will happen. The label will be the guide until PCGS sees fit to follow suit with a 5FS and a 6FS attribution label of their own. And the longer they wait, the longer their clientele will have to wait to re-submit for the new labels. Only if pressed by their constituents (nagged without letup) might they be timely in following NGCs lead.

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Mark -

I would have commented sooner...just no opportunity.

 

MHO: since there is no guarantee that any given PCGS slabbed full step Jefferson has all 6 steps the only choice is for them to be admitted into the registry as 5 step entries.

 

Here's an opportunity for NGC: since they're slabbing GSA dollars in the holder and Ikes in the government-issued holder, maybe they could start slabbing PCGS slabbed Jeffersons and give them the 5 or 6 step designation...

 

As an aside: traveling this time of the year really sucks badly.

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Here's an opportunity for NGC: since they're slabbing GSA dollars in the holder and Ikes in the government-issued holder, maybe they could start slabbing PCGS slabbed Jeffersons and give them the 5 or 6 step designation...

 

It's called crossover! 27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif

 

But maybe you're right that a service could be created where any PCGS coin could be reviewed by NGC for 5 or 6 step designation and they could enter the cert number into a database that referenced the "steppedness" (great word, eh? insane.gif). I reckon that people would only send in 6 steppers and the rest would remain in the 5 step category.

 

Hey, are we talking about a 6 step program for addicts of the Jeff series? insane.gif

 

As an aside: traveling this time of the year really sucks badly.

 

You are right there. I hope that you and your dear wife did not have a miserable time getting to and from MN. Yikes. Now I have to travel like a mad man for 6 weeks. frown.gif I'll be just like you Roger! smile.gif

 

Adios! Hoot

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It is also an opportunity for NGC to get business from the people holding PCGS 6FS Jeffs and not waiting for PCGS to make up its mind about following suit. Considering the possibility that PCGS will NOT make the distinctions for 5FS and 6FS, there might be many cross-overs to get the attribute from NGC.

 

I reckon that people would only send in 6 steppers and the rest would remain in the 5 step category.

Yep. They would be wasting their money to cross-over a PCGS FS to a NGC 5FS. However, @ only $10 to get it, there may be more "action" here then we think. At a psychological level, the added "5" to a label has an appeal over the standard "FS" PCGS now uses.

 

And there are probably many PCGS Jeffs with the FS label that, in the owners opinion, might make the cross to a 6FS. Will all depend on how NGC reads the "lines".

 

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As an aside: traveling this time of the year really sucks badly.

 

You are right there. I hope that you and your dear wife did not have a miserable time getting to and from MN. Yikes. Now I have to travel like a mad man for 6 weeks. frown.gif I'll be just like you Roger! smile.gif

 

Mark -

Hijacking your thread to something totally OT...

sign-offtopic.gif

I was in Minneapolis last week by myself visiting a customer, but I get to return there again tomorrow for the week with my wife catching up on Thursday.

 

You know, I've experienced cold before, but never in my life have I felt it like last week. When we woke up Friday morning it was about 23 below and by 9:00 AM it had dropped to -26. What's scary is that just further to the north it was well below -40.

 

I saw something that just amazed me...those from really cold climes probably know about this, but I had never heard of it before. When it is 15 below or colder go outside with a cup of hot, almost boiling water, and throw it into the air. The water goes through an almost immediate state change to vapor and snow...no water hits the ground. When we threw the water up it virtually exploded into vapor and snow...well worth the price of admission.

 

My apologies for steering this thread in a different direction and Mark...my condolences if your travel frequency even comes close to mine frown.gif

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Asked same Question Hoot, but wasn't posted. Should be interesting, but may be an opportunity for NGC, but holders of PCGS FS Jeff's appear to be penalized, since service is not offered at PCGS. Possibly will lose some PCGS FS Registry Collections. I would like to see same points given for both 5 & 6 step Jeff's with a notation of how many steps (if NGC coin). At least for the transition this will alienate less PCGS FS collectors. There are some fine PCGs sets. Ray Overby's collection juggle.gif is a good example. Just a thought.

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I agree with you Tom that Ray's set and others are excellent. I also have a bunch of PCGS graded FS coins. However, I'm in agreement with NGC that until there is a way to know if a PCGS graded FS nickel is 6 steps, it should be considered a 5 step coin. I really don't think that's offensive, even though a few of my PCGS graded pieces are 6 steps! I simply think it's the prudent step on NGC's part and it places value where value should be key to the designation.

 

I also think it's the right thing to consider a 5 step or better coin a full step nickel. But making the distinction as NGC has decided to do is something I've been advocating for a long time now. I'm glad to see this happening.

 

I'd still like to see a fee-based service that would make it so that the step count is placed on the label. This should be available for every Jefferson nickel that crosses NGC's desk. Perhaps it should be a variety plus service. That way, other valuable Jefferson nickels can also get their due with regard to this FS mania. For example, a nice 5-5-4-5 1954-S nickel in MS66 condition is, in my mind, worth a premium over a 5-5-5-5 MS64 (given that both are nice looking for their grade). I think this despite the fact that a 5-5-4-5 coin will never be considered FS. confused-smiley-013.gif

 

So it goes. I hope that NGC will soon offer placing the step count on the label as a Variety Plus service.

 

Hoot

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  • Member: Seasoned Veteran

As noted in the front page article, the conversion to 5FS and 6FS will happen next Friday. It will take a few days to reset the Jefferson registries, so don't panic if the numbers are a bit off over the weekend and for the next few days. The 5FS nickels in particular may take a few days to score, while the formerly NGC FS nickels will simply convert to 6FS at their existing scores.

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I also have been waiting for years for NGC to make this move believing that the PCGS FS designation was more in line with what most collectors wanted. Hoot is "right on" in what he is advocating. I believe PCGS should follow suit asap; but all PCGS coins should be considered 5 steps till they do.(We all know from a political perspective that they probably will not.) This would finally put all on a more level playing field. I know I personally have NGC 67's that can be submitted for FS designation now. Do you know what the premium will be for the NGC 6 vs. 5 step designation?

Nickelhead

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Thanks Nickelhead and welcome to the boards! Your question...

 

"Do you know what the premium will be for the NGC 6 vs. 5 step designation?"

 

...is the sixty thousand dollar question! There are several of us here who believe that it will take perhaps 2 or 3 of years for all of this to settle down a bit in the market. Not only is NGC making this excellent change, but people are simply becoming more aware of the series at large. With the upcoming changes in design, there will be much to consider and a fair number of people entering into the collection of the series. Moreover, there are still a few substantial hoards of raw Jeffs out there and many that are likely unknowingly stashed away. The devil is in the details, so to speak. devil.gif

 

Hoot

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The devil is in the details

 

What does Greg have to do with all this?

 

laugh.gif

 

EVP

 

We KNOW that Greg is always there! (Even if he's dressing like a girl these days blush.gif)

 

devil.gif

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Personally, from what I've seen in the pcgs slab, if not all, but most pcgs FS graded nickels should be resubmitted for review! Not only for full steps but also for regrading! But not for the sake of whether a coin has 5 or 6 steps for registry points, lest for a crossover into a NGC slab, but to make certain those coins actually have full steps. Also, forget the idea if pcgs will ever grade 6 step nickels as the following statement was made by "yours truly" not too long ago.

 

"I feel that the 6 step designation should be left to the ultra specialists at this time. I think it is similar to Mercury dimes with "full bands" and "fully rounded bands." I think the 6 steps designation might bring more confusion into the market place and may be a negative."

 

Not that this could change in the near future, to keep up with the Jone's so to speak but that I could care less if and when they do. 27_laughing.gif

 

Leo

 

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That sounds more like they don't want to [!@#%^&^] off the registry people who purchased all those FS nickels that aren't FS.

 

PCGS has taken the easy way out by requiring a very loose standard for designations. NGC went the opposite way. Personally, I like the old NGC standard. FS means 6 full steps - not 5 or 4 or 1. FULL means full. It doesn't mean Market Graded Full.

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"I like the old NGC standard. FS means 6 full steps - not 5 or 4 or 1. FULL means full. It doesn't mean Market Graded Full."

 

That's a fine standard to adhere to for one's self, but it simply does not fit the way that the attribution has been applied since it was first considered and formalized. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I simply think that NGC (and ANACS) are doing the right thing by recognizing the historical significance of collecting FS nickels and designating 5 or 6 steps. What you have to realize is that NGC is not compromizing their standard in the least. ALL of their previously designated FS nickels are 6 steps. They are only now recognizing that a nickel with 5 complete steps, but with tagging between steps 5 and 6, is a coin of noteworthy attribution. Since NGC is already picky about giving the FS attribution, I think that what we'll see are good looking coins with 5 and better full steps. This will put NGC out there as a leader for this niche in numismatics.

 

What Leo said about grading is true. But I'm not worried in the least about NGC's grading of nickels. They are consistent and tough with grades on nickels. I've not once felt like I was given anything in terms of a grade with NGC, and I've had a lot of nickels graded by them.

 

So, I don't see how this could be considered anything but win-win for NGC and its submitters. I think it will stir up the markeplace, which truly needs stirring over this, and will bring to the fore a better recognition of what makes a full step nickel and what does not (even if you think that only 6 steps are for you).

 

One last note... I've already said that this is a positive move for the NGC registry. Keep in mind that this notches down PCGS nickels in the NGC registry. I think this is excellent because there is currently no distinction in the PCGS FS standard for attainment of 6 FS vs. 5 FS. 6 full steps in any pre-1991 nickel is very hard to find and thusly, NGC will provide recognition for this in their registry. I, for one, will be happy to see sets with 6 FS coins duly rewarded. (I just wish that they'd let in ANACS graded nickels shocked.gif).

 

Hoot

 

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