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1888 $3 gold piece

Started by zultar-migration,

71 posts in this topic

James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted
Depending upon the coin and the images, posting them might very well be foolproof. We wont know that unless we have a look.

 

There might also be local dealers who could authenticate the coin. Or an upcoming show where free expert opinions could be solicited. And what's the big hurry at this point?

I strongly urge all haste so that IF the coin comes back "not genuine", the odds of being able to return it are increased. My experience has always been that the longer you wait to attempt a return, the less likely it is to happen.

 

Edited to add: From the provided images, it's either genuine, or a very good fake. I can't tell and defer to anyone who can authenticate from the images, but still, if it were me, the coin would be in priority mail this morning, on its way to NGC.

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zultar-migration

zultar-migration

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I think the lack of detail is due mostly too my camera. Its about time I buy a $1000 camera anyway. Campared to robec's comparison my reef has much more detail in person, i can see the veins on the maple leafs well, the only part that doesnt look as sharp as his comparison is the corn husk may be a little worn on mine. I'm gonna send it it anyway, if it is a fake i have to prove it to get my money back, plus a bought a few Carson city liberty head $5 an $10 pieces and a few indian head $5, $10 pieces with it Im gonna send in too. I went to the estate auction to buy guns and wound up with $4800 worth of coins!

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PerryHall

PerryHall

Posted
Posted

I own about a dozen $3 gold coins and this one just doesn't look right. The details just look too soft and mushy. A body bag from one of the top grading services will be official and should be proof enough to get your money back.

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Conder101

Conder101

Posted
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I would have to say that I don't like it, but I am not a specialist in these coin. I will answer one of his questions though, If or when you send it to the graders the SAFEST way to send it would be by Registered mail. And at the value this coin would be insured for it is also CHEAPER to send it that way. The down side is that Registered is a slower service and the coin may take a few days longer to get there.

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zultar-migration

zultar-migration

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Anyone ever overnight fedex coins? I have a high school buddy that is manager at Fedex in Houston and, although there are theives at Fedex too(part of his job is catching them). He said overnight is the safest way to send stuff by mail because that is the least amount of hands that will touch your goods

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stinkycheese1

stinkycheese1

Posted
Posted

Zultar, $5 and $2.50 indians are heavily counterfeited too...I study US Gold counterfeits, if some of the coins come back as not genuine, can you take pictures of them so I can log the pictures in my database? I'm trying to build a reportorial of counterfeit US gold images for study purposes..

 

By the way, what caused you to spend that much on US gold? Were you aware of the counterfeits? Or is it just the allure of gold that it has to many..(I'm a bit of a gold bug myself)

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robec1347

robec1347

Posted
Posted
Anyone ever overnight fedex coins? I have a high school buddy that is manager at Fedex in Houston and, although there are theives at Fedex too(part of his job is catching them). He said overnight is the safest way to send stuff by mail because that is the least amount of hands that will touch your goods

 

I've done it a few times. It's a little pricey, but the 24-48 hour delivery time was pretty nice.

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zultar-migration

zultar-migration

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Oh, always wanted to collect US gold coins- I guess ever since i saw the gold coin collections at the smithsonian several years back. I want to eventually get one of every gold coin US produced. Now finaly have the income to afford it, I'd rather own those instead of some imaginary stock. And I need to diversify from guns and ammo to other things. Even though ammo appreciates more than gold nowadays! I'll try to take better pics of the other coins I bought and post them

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BillJones

BillJones

Posted
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It looks counterfeit to me because the dentiles are weak and there is a lack of detail on the high points of what appears to be a Mint State or virtually Mint State coin. The high points are the deepest part of the die, and counterfeiters have most trouble getting those to come out well. To say for sure, one would have to use a scope on the piece in person to look for die or metal mold imperfections, but from the picture I'd say it is not genuine.

 

Here are a couple of pictures of genuine $3 gold coins, both 1854.

 

18543GoldO.jpg18543GoldR.jpg

 

18543O.jpg18543R.jpg

 

 

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stinkycheese1

stinkycheese1

Posted
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Bill, I'm guessing it was probably a mint state genuine coin as a host to make the counterfeit coin....some detail was lost from the transfer die process, and the coin wasn't aged any, so it makes sense for it to be in MS condition. That's probably why I think the detail is lost too...because some detail is lost when making the counterfeit coin.

 

I also noticed the denticals weak....on the right side it almost looks like they are missing or weak..

 

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Anyone ever overnight fedex coins? I have a high school buddy that is manager at Fedex in Houston and, although there are theives at Fedex too(part of his job is catching them). He said overnight is the safest way to send stuff by mail because that is the least amount of hands that will touch your goods
I use Fedex, but have a coin insurance policy that covers it. Unless you also have such a policy, do not use Fedex!

 

It is not nearly as safe as registered/insured mail. And, while I believe Fedex offers insurance coverage, I think the limit of actual coverage is only about $100, though they will let you insure and charge you for more.

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zultar-migration

zultar-migration

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thanks for all ya'lls help, im starting to agree with billjones, et al. Close look shows less detail, especially on the feathers in the hat band, despite little evidence of wear. Im gonna send it in to get checked along with my others ones to get graded so I'll post the results on this post. here is some of the others I bought with it.

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zultar-migration

zultar-migration

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http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs264.snc1/9118_1209890934266_1438506424_587964_6088630_n.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs264.snc1/9118_1209890974267_1438506424_587965_4763269_n.jpg

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs264.snc1/9118_1209891014268_1438506424_587966_5276345_n.jpg

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs264.snc1/9118_1209891054269_1438506424_587967_7344491_n.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs244.snc1/9118_1209891094270_1438506424_587968_3593884_n.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs244.snc1/9118_1209891134271_1438506424_587969_4401257_n.jpg

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs264.snc1/9118_1209891174272_1438506424_587970_3616826_n.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs264.snc1/9118_1209891214273_1438506424_587971_3144256_n.jpg

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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thanks for all ya'lls help, im starting to agree with billjones, et al. Close look shows less detail, especially on the feathers in the hat band, despite little evidence of wear. Im gonna send it in to get checked along with my others ones to get graded so I'll post the results on this post. here is some of the others I bought with it.
Based on their condition, those other coins don't merit the fees it will cost to to get them graded, but suit yourself.
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$ilverHawk

$ilverHawk

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I'm looking to learn from all of your postings. The point that jumps out to me is in comparing the questioned coin to known genuine the spacing and tilt of the letters in "LIBERTY" looks off. Particularly the "B". Is that a tell for countrfeiting?

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stinkycheese1

stinkycheese1

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I'm looking to learn from all of your postings. The point that jumps out to me is in comparing the questioned coin to known genuine the spacing and tilt of the letters in "LIBERTY" looks off. Particularly the "B". Is that a tell for countrfeiting?

 

I noticed that too, but as I'm not familiar with the 3 dollar gold pieces (they are out of my price range) I wasn't too sure. I think there are probably different varieties of these, so its possible that is normal. There's something I don't understand...if the counterfeit coins are struck using a geniune host coin with the transfer process using real dies, how does items like spacing become off? Since it's copying the genuine coin, they should be identical to the genuine coin, right? My only explanation is that the counterfeiter goes back and does something to the die or makes some changes..not sure if this is right..

 

The $5 indian though, on the reverse near the head of the eagle looks to be a circular depression. I may be wrong though...the other coins are worn enough they are probably genuine.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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Posted
...The $5 indian though, on the reverse near the head of the eagle looks to be a circular depression. I may be wrong though...the other coins are worn enough they are probably genuine.
Even though the images aren't very good, I believe that the $5 Indian is genuine.
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stinkycheese1

stinkycheese1

Posted
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...The $5 indian though, on the reverse near the head of the eagle looks to be a circular depression. I may be wrong though...the other coins are worn enough they are probably genuine.
Even though the images aren't very good, I believe that the $5 Indian is genuine.

 

It was probably just a contact mark then, mark, so I can pick your brain, what makes you think this $5 indian is genuine? I'm not saying it isn't, but I'm just curious what made you come to the conclusion that it is genuine, It's probably something that comes with experience, sometimes the coins just 'don't look right' on counterfeits I think, or have unnatural luster that is too uniform.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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...The $5 indian though, on the reverse near the head of the eagle looks to be a circular depression. I may be wrong though...the other coins are worn enough they are probably genuine.
Even though the images aren't very good, I believe that the $5 Indian is genuine.

 

It was probably just a contact mark then, mark, so I can pick your brain, what makes you think this $5 indian is genuine? I'm not saying it isn't, but I'm just curious what made you come to the conclusion that it is genuine, It's probably something that comes with experience, sometimes the coins just 'don't look right' on counterfeits I think, or have unnatural luster that is too uniform.

Kevin, looking at the reverse (since the image of that side is better), I see nothing that looks off/wrong/suspicious, in terms of details, overall appearance, etc. That's the best way I can put it.
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$ilverHawk

$ilverHawk

Posted
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Take a look at page 355 in PCGS Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detecting. "The stock obverse with the depression between the I and B of LIBERTY is used with various dates." I'm a newbie but it sure looks like the description fits.

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stinkycheese1

stinkycheese1

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Take a look at page 355 in PCGS Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detecting. "The stock obverse with the depression between the I and B of LIBERTY is used with various dates." I'm a newbie but it sure looks like the description fits.

 

I'm talking about the other coin, the reverse $5 indian.

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WoodenJefferson

WoodenJefferson

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a terrible fake to boot

 

For those wishing to learn about the characteristics of grading gold and or learning about counterfeits, this post does nothing to inhance my skills.

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michael

michael

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a terrible fake to boot

 

For those wishing to learn about the characteristics of grading gold and or learning about counterfeits, this post does nothing to inhance my skills.

 

was'nt meant to do this

 

and i am not here to post the finer points so next time the counterfeiters that read this will get it right

 

my post was this :"it is NOT a good fake" based on MY experiences

see my bi-line below

 

 

to others that have different experiences from my own they will naturally have different thoughts

 

 

see my bi-line below

 

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