Interesting Coin on eBay

[Jakeblue]

Mr Leidman is on the front page of the PCGS site. I bet some members here know him. He might even be a member here.

 

A little pricey for me. Always hard to tell from pictures, but it could be "frosted".

 

What a find if it is a proof.

 

eBay Auction

[bsshog40]

It would be better to see in hand for sure. People questioning this coin on his auction are not cutting him any slack.It does have a nice strike but I wouldn't go as far to claim it as a proof.

[Coindude]

I've seen a lot of talk about this ATS. There are a lot who question calling it a proof but there are a lot who defend Julian. They say that if he says it's a proof then it's most likely a proof. Apparently he's discovered more than one Branch Mint proof even though there are no records of them. This coin used to be in a 65 dmpl holder, not sure if it was pcgs or ngc, but he cracked it out trying to get it into a branch mint holder and was unsuccessful.

[gmarguli]

I've seen a lot of talk about this ATS. There are a lot who question calling it a proof but there are a lot who defend Julian.

 

I'd bet 99% of the people ATS saying it is not a proof have never handled a real proof Morgan of any date.

 

The pics are awful and there is no way to say proof/ms without examining it in hand.

[DC Dawg]

Mr Leidman is on the front page of the PCGS site. I bet some members here know him. He might even be a member here.

Julian Leidman is probably one of the best dealers I have ever met. His store is located in Silver Spring, Maryland and is most likely in Los Angeles for the ANA World's Fair of Money this week.

 

He posts invitations to PNG days at various shows here, but he mostly hangs out ATS because of his association with PCGS--he is one of their consultants. You can find his website at juliancoin.com.

 

Julian is wonderful to talk with. He makes an annual appearance at my coin club to talk about the state of the industry. You can also ask any question and he will sincerely answer you without making you feel like he is beneath answering such simple questions. He is extremely knowledgeable! Julian is one of the few people I would trust to buy a coin site-unseen and would trust his judgement on this.

 

BTW: Anyone have the link to the discussion ATS?

 

Scott

[robec1347]

I believe this is the Thread

[jackson64]

I'm sure the man's credibility and credentials are astounding..however I'm not convinced ( and definately wouldn't be convinced enough to purchase it off of ebay with those pics--even if I had the money)

 

I'm going to credit the picture quality for this but here are a few things ( besides the obvious issue of proof die/s being used in NO for a few coins)...

 

--the coin does not appear extremely "mirrored" in the pics, there is a nice PL contrast, but no depth of reflection or glassy surface...

 

-- the reverse seems to have breaks in the frost on the center and some letters, which raises questions because if it were a rare example of a tiny few struck, wouldn't they be of the frostiest/highest quality?

 

I've only owned 1 Morgan proof and have no illusions about any expertise..however even an expert like Julian ( like anyone in any field of work) may sometimes be mistaken..I'd like to see better pictures and read his reasoning--especially since there is no documentation or evidence that proof dies were used..

[WoodenJefferson]

I wished I knew more about Morgans, but I was thinking, did not a master coiner from the Philadelphia Mint visit the New Orleans Mint around this time frame because they were having die/strike problems with Morgan Silver Dollars?

 

Would it not be possible for this representative to carry some proof planchets and a set of dies from Philadelphia to the New Orleans mint to enable test strikes? This coin/coins were taken back to the Mother Mint and got out like so many other mint items?

 

Thinking out loud.

[prudden]

If this was in a 65 DMPL slab,now it's in a PCGS "genuine" as being cleaned. Weird.

[RareSov]

Nice line of thinking

 

From the images, it does not seem to be a business strike, but who's to say

 

He says he will bring it to shows. Surely he will bring it to ANA if he is going, so maybe some of you can check it out

[jackson64]

why does everyone keep mentioning that the coin was cleaned? The man cracked out a DMPL coin and sent it in to get it graded and slabbed as a proof..PCGS did not agree it was proof so they do what they do to all coins they won't grade, simply encapsulated it and put "Genuine"..

 

 

[WoodenJefferson]

They keep saying cleaned because code .92 on the slab denotes "cleaned" that's all. Julian also stated that he's never seen the coin holdered and bought the coin raw.

 

It was another member that stated the coin was once in a PCGS DMPL-65 holder.

[DC Dawg]

I'm going to credit the picture quality for this but here are a few things ( besides the obvious issue of proof die/s being used in NO for a few coins)...

I don't know if Julian will have it with him in Los Angeles this week. If you're attending the ANA show, you may want to stop by his table to see the coin.

 

They keep saying cleaned because code .92 on the slab denotes "cleaned" that's all. Julian also stated that he's never seen the coin holdered and bought the coin raw.

All coins PCGS marks as genuine has a .92 on the slab. They do not give details as to what is wrong with the coin--as opposed to NCS who does. Julian explains in the eBay posting, "my colleagues at PCGS declined the opportunity to encapsulate it as a proof, because of a lack of documentation or reason for it to be struck."

 

Besides, if you want to take your chances, "You have up to 14 days after delivered to return your item for whatever reason."

 

Scott

[WoodenJefferson]

I do believe that the e-bay auction is nothing more than publicity for the up coming shows. If it were to happen to sell on e-bay for that amount, he's take it and not worry about the show dates. Any way, right now, the coin is getting some much needed attention, especially in the eyes of the seller. It would be near impossible to get this unique Morgan into a PCGS holder with a PR designation under any circumstances until proof arises in the form mint records indication a proof was struck at the New Orleans Branch Mint. For now or until that happens, it’s encased in a genuine holder for safe keeping.

 

OBTW $99,000.00 is out of my league,

 

Wait, I have not yet looked at my Mega-Millions slip, if I’m the winner, my chump change can pick it up Tuesday.

[HiHoAudio]

Would it not be possible for this representative to carry some proof planchets and a set of dies from Philadelphia to the New Orleans mint to enable test strikes? This coin/coins were taken back to the Mother Mint and got out like so many other mint items?

 

Excellent theory.

[ldhair]

These are the codes PCGS has listed on their site.

 

No Grade Description Printed Description Holdered

82 Filed Rims Yes Yes

83 Peeling Lamination No No

84 Holed and Plugged Yes Yes

86 No Opinion - our experts are unable to determine a coin's authenticity. Fee refunded No No

87 Not Eligible For Service Selected - the coin is too valuable for the chosen service level. Fee refunded No No

90 Questionable Authenticity No No

91 Questionable/Artificial Toning (or Questionable Color for copper) No Yes

92 Cleaned - surface damage due to a harsh, abrasive cleaning No Yes

93 Planchet Flaw - metal impurity or defect in the planchet No Yes

94 Altered Surfaces - whizzed, harsh cleaning, thumbed over (using a pasty substance to cover defects or alter the appearance) No Yes

95 Scratch / Rim Dent No Yes

96 No Service - coins we do not certify (i.e. medals, some privately made issues, etc.) or cannot certify (i.e. over-sized coins). Fee Refunded. No No

97 Environmental Damage - i.e. corrosion, coating (lacquer), excessively heavy toning, etc. No Yes

98 Damage - deliberate surface damage, i.e. graffiti, spot(s) removed, etc. No Yes

99 PVC (Poly-Vinyl-Chloride) Residue - a plasticizer used to produce vinyl that will leach out of the holder and onto the coin, eventually damaging the surfaces No No

 

[MarkFeld]

All coins PCGS marks as genuine has a .92 on the slab. They do not give details as to what is wrong with the coin--as opposed to NCS who does.

Scott

That is incorrect on both counts.

[WoodenJefferson]

OK, since I do not know, I’m going to throw out this question:

 

Did any of the other Branch Mint Morgan Dollar known proofs exhibit weakness in the hairlines above the ear?

[jgrinz]

All coins PCGS marks as genuine has a .92 on the slab. They do not give details as to what is wrong with the coin--as opposed to NCS who does.

Scott

That is incorrect on both counts.

 

I agree and their coding system has been posted on a previous post

 

Impossible to tell what THAT coin is with those pictures

[James_OldeTowne]

The pics are awful and there is no way to say proof/ms without examining it in hand.

My problem with calling it a proof is that even going by the images, one can tell the strike leaves much to be desired. There are many average business-strike New Orleans dollars that feature significantly sharper detail than shown by that coin.

 

Why would New Orleans go to such great lengths to strike a single proof coin ... and then strike it with poor pressure?