What coin would you keep?

[Mark T]

I have two 1827 Square Base Bust Halves that are CAC certified.

 

The PCGS Au 55 is Overton 141 which is R-3

The NGC AU58 is Overton 126 which is R-2

 

The PCGS coin is crusty with some Verdigris and more then likely original.

The NGC coin is a nice dipper with very sharp details and a good strike. A minor scratch and a small nick which is exaggerated by the scan are notable on the Observe. The reverse is pretty smooth.

 

The scanner hides a lot of the luster that is present on the NGC coin, the PCGS coins has to much patina which subdues the luster .

 

I am going to sell one of these – if you were me (like anyone could be so lucky ) which coin would you keep ??

 

PCGS Coin :

 

http://s585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/guitarman102357/?action=view&current=1827-bust-PCGSau55-observe.jpg

 

http://s585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/guitarman102357/?action=view&current=1827-bust-PCGSau55-reverse.jpg

 

NGC Coin :

 

http://s585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/guitarman102357/?action=view&current=1827-bust-mgcau58-observe.jpg

 

http://s585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/guitarman102357/?action=view&current=1827-bust-ngcau58-reverse.jpg

 

[physics-fan3.14]

I think there is no competition - and I think you realize this. Hence your obviously slanted poll.

 

Oh, the original PCGS coin is the winner, of course.

[robec1347]

Here you go. Wow, they're so large.

 

 

PCGS coin

 

NGC coin

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jtryka]

In my opinion, the PCGS coin is a little overgraded, but I still prefer it to the washed out look of the dipped coin.

[TomB]

Sell both and find an attractive, accurately graded, appearntly original and problem-free coin.

[123cents]

If the NGC coin has nice luster I would probably keep it.

[Mark T]

Sell both and find an attractive, accurately graded, appearntly original and problem-free coin.

 

I think the PCGS is original although I will admit you would know better then I would.

You were with me at Coin Fest when I asked Bill why the PCGS coin received the CAC sticker with the Verdigris. Do you remember what he said ?

 

 

[WinstonWare]

Sell both and find an attractive, accurately graded, appearntly original and problem-free coin.

This is what I was thinking...

[Mark T]

If the NGC coin has nice luster I would probably keep it.

 

These are photos rather then a scan of the NGC. People who liked the white dipped look would like this coin. In hand it is much better looking then a scan or Photo can pick up.

[123cents]

The photos look better than the scans and it looks like it has nice luster. I certainly love toned CBH's but I also like AU and above CBH's that retain nice luster even though they have probably been dipped.

[Mark T]

Scanners can pick up details as good or better then a camera but will often give a coin a washed out look. Many times the scanner will amplify imperfections on a coin especially when you scan at 1200 DPI. Blow that coin up with a large picture and you can really see a lot !! Other then luster this new scanner does a great job getting the correct look of certain coins. I have my share of dipped Bust Halves that are mostly from earlier purchases when I started to collect again early in 2008. Some of them have a fantastic look so I will keep them , others no longer appeal to me and I will eventually sell those.

 

 

[astrostu]

I'm normally not a fan of huge toning. But, I'm starting to come around, and in this case, the PCGS coin just looks more "real."

[TomB]

Sell both and find an attractive, accurately graded, appearntly original and problem-free coin.

 

I think the PCGS is original although I will admit you would know better then I would.

You were with me at Coin Fest when I asked Bill why the PCGS coin received the CAC sticker with the Verdigris. Do you remember what he said ?

 

I remember seeing the coin in-hand and recall very well the conversation with Bill after the CAC inspection, but it does not mean that I either agree with the CAC logic or that I think the coin should be kept. By the way, I like that coin more than the other posted, but I just don't think either are keepers.

[chinook]

The PCGS coin looks 10 pts OVERGRADED to me. The NGC is a dipped out mess with no character.

 

Follow TomB's advice and find a nice (more original) example.

[coinman1794]

The PCGS coin is probably a textbook AU50-53. I'm sure there is nice luster that simply isn't showing. No way is it 10 points overgraded, but I think 55 is a stretch. It's FAR NICER than the NGC-58 in terms of quality, however. I pick the PCGS coin, hands down.

[James_OldeTowne]

I have to agree with those who stated that the PCGS coin is overgraded. From that image, it looks like XF-45, and if it cost you AU-55 money, unquestionably return it and get your money back! It's a spectacularly original coin at XF-45, but a terribly overgraded coin at AU-55.

 

The NGC coin is clearly the better one, BUT I do not like the unoriginal look. At AU-50, it's a great coin, at AU-58, it's just another overgrade.

 

I would keep neither for type purposes.

 

If I understand the CAC concept, then it's highly puzzling that either coin would have a sticker. But then again, understanding the concept and implementing it properly may be two different things.

 

 

[jackson64]

sell both of them, pool the money, and then buy a superb coin with no scratch, nick, dip, or verdigis.....

[James_OldeTowne]

I had to come back to this thread. In looking at that PCGS coin again, I find those green spots very alarming. I think it should either go back to CAC or back to PCGS for some kind of appearance review. The spots should be removed.

 

The NGC coin could be a good candidate for an album or Kraft envelope. It might be able to recover some nice color if stored appropriately.

 

But the best solution is what someone else has already stated: sell both and use the proceeds to buy something nice. UNABASHED SPAM: The upcoming Scotsman sale has some spectacular AUs in it that blow away both of these coins.

[Mark T]

The PCGS coin looks 10 pts OVERGRADED to me. The NGC is a dipped out mess with no character.

 

Follow TomB's advice and find a nice (more original) example.

 

10 Points ?? You need some serious glasses

Based on the other Au55 coins I have it looks "ok" detail wise for Au 55.

I have the benefit of seeing in hand you can only make a grade determination based on a photo. It is not a pretty coin but it has a lot of character!!

As for the NGC coin it does appear from the photo to look overly dipped. It is not a bad looking coin in hand but it also does not fit my collecting goals so it will be up for sale.

 

[Mark T]

I have to agree with those who stated that the PCGS coin is overgraded. From that image, it looks like XF-45, and if it cost you AU-55 money, unquestionably return it and get your money back! It's a spectacularly original coin at XF-45, but a terribly overgraded coin at AU-55.

 

The NGC coin is clearly the better one, BUT I do not like the unoriginal look. At AU-50, it's a great coin, at AU-58, it's just another overgrade.

 

I would keep neither for type purposes.

 

If I understand the CAC concept, then it's highly puzzling that either coin would have a sticker. But then again, understanding the concept and implementing it properly may be two different things.

 

 

 

I picked up both coins last year when the market was a lot stronger. I paid $ 500 for the Au 58 and $ 490 for the Au 55.

I should be able to sell the Au 58 for about what I paid but I will take a loss on the Au 55 in todays market. Both will be up on EBAy this weekend.

 

The problem with the Au 55 is there is so much junk on it the details look like .

I agree with you on the CAc assessment, I was very surprised that the Au55 was certified and a little surprised about the Au58 although as I have said it really looks a lot better in hand.

 

 

 

 

[MBA101]

I say the PCGS coin has exactly the detail and luster that typical 55's have. The original toning can make it look like a lesser coin, but the grade is right. The green may or may not be what you think. I cannot believe that PCGS would holder a coin with something that obvious, unless it is something that is actually growing on the coin and was not there before, in which case, there is a serious problem. I have a preference for coins that look "old" with all the gunk and stuff on it, as long as it is not harmful "gunk".

 

Keep what you like. Me? There are 49 different 1827's. I would keep both, and then start working on the other 47 when I had the chance.

[Mark T]

I say the PCGS coin has exactly the detail and luster that typical 55's have. The original toning can make it look like a lesser coin, but the grade is right. The green may or may not be what you think. I cannot believe that PCGS would holder a coin with something that obvious, unless it is something that is actually growing on the coin and was not there before, in which case, there is a serious problem. I have a preference for coins that look "old" with all the gunk and stuff on it, as long as it is not harmful "gunk".

 

Keep what you like. Me? There are 49 different 1827's. I would keep both, and then start working on the other 47 when I had the chance.

 

The bright green stuff is Verdigris for sure. I knew it had some when I bought the coin last year, but because I had just started up collecting again I did not know better then to stay away from the coin. At the time I bought this I picked it up for less then what other Au 55 Busts were selling for. The stuff that is caked in the Wings may just be crud as it is much darker then what the scan shows.

 

Here is the original auction with the Bowers Photo.

 

http://www.bowersandmerena.com/auctions/lot_detail.aspx?AuctionNo=13100&SessionNo=1&CatNo=40&SearchString=&VideoFlag=&zoom=1&lotno=837

 

[RareSov]

Could tell it would be nicer, as you stated.. looks nice now I saw photos

 

I prefer untoned coins, thats the way I would go.. personal preference

[chinook]

The PCGS coin looks 10 pts OVERGRADED to me. The NGC is a dipped out mess with no character.

 

Follow TomB's advice and find a nice (more original) example.

 

10 Points ?? You need some serious glasses

Based on the other Au55 coins I have it looks "ok" detail wise for Au 55.

I have the benefit of seeing in hand you can only make a grade determination based on a photo. It is not a pretty coin but it has a lot of character!!

As for the NGC coin it does appear from the photo to look overly dipped. It is not a bad looking coin in hand but it also does not fit my collecting goals so it will be up for sale.

 

Glasses on. Its still a 45.

[Houston Investor]

I like the NGC coin better. I am not much of a fan of toned coins.

 

Toning is often the result of a reaction of the atmosphere on the coins surface. Unfortunately this will only get worse as time goes on. The worst afflicted pieces will have a grey black tone usually from a salty environment or place near the sea.

 

Read the Coin Preservation Handbook and you will see what I mean. I have had my copy since the 1960's. Warning - it may be a scary read for you if you believe coins will not tone over time.

 

I remember being in a shop in the late 1960's and hearing dealer discussions of how to dip coins in mass to "get the tarnish off." The idea of toned coins bringing huge premiums would have been like Sci Fi to these guys. I remember buying a Unc silver half dollar roll and as a courtesy the dealer dipped all of them for me without charge. However, I became alarmed when he was aggressively drying them and I told him "hey be careful, just pat them dry." It was not uncommon then to see the lavatories at shows taken by dealers dipping newly acquired material. Coins with a filmy or hazy PVC tone should be dipped right away.

[dean1345]

I too prefer the NGC coin.

[Mark T]

I had to come back to this thread. In looking at that PCGS coin again, I find those green spots very alarming. I think it should either go back to CAC or back to PCGS for some kind of appearance review. The spots should be removed.

 

The NGC coin could be a good candidate for an album or Kraft envelope. It might be able to recover some nice color if stored appropriately.

 

But the best solution is what someone else has already stated: sell both and use the proceeds to buy something nice. UNABASHED SPAM: The upcoming Scotsman sale has some spectacular AUs in it that blow away both of these coins.

 

Now Bill would those coins be some of yours ??