Should a seller disclose this type of information to a prospective buyer?

[MarkFeld]

At this past week's Long Beach show, I bought a Draped Bust coin graded VF35 by PCGS. The seller disclosed that he had acquired it in an old, green label VF20 holder, at a rather healthy premium for that grade. To me, the coin looks accurately graded as a VF35, and in fact, I like it better than another VF35 that just sold in auction for considerably more (roughly 50%) than I am asking for my example.

 

If you were a prospective buyer for such a coin would you want to know its previous grade? Regardless of your answer, is that something you feel a seller should disclose?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

[ant]

no! the curent grade is the grade it has. it doesnt matter to me what it WAS cause it ISNT anymore

[James_OldeTowne]

If you were a prospective buyer for such a coin would you want to know its previous grade? Regardless of your answer, is that something you feel a seller should disclose?

No, and no.

 

Similarly, it's unnecessary and frivolous to disclose that a coin failed to receive a CAC sticker.

[MarkFeld]

If you were a prospective buyer for such a coin would you want to know its previous grade? Regardless of your answer, is that something you feel a seller should disclose?

No, and no.

 

Similarly, it's unnecessary and frivolous to disclose that a coin failed to receive a CAC sticker.

I'm sure you wont be surprised to hear that I disagree about the CAC sticker. If for no other reason, because I don't want potential buyers to be wondering if my non-CAC coins were rejected by CAC or not. I'll comment on the other matter later.

[James_OldeTowne]

If you were a prospective buyer for such a coin would you want to know its previous grade? Regardless of your answer, is that something you feel a seller should disclose?

No, and no.

 

Similarly, it's unnecessary and frivolous to disclose that a coin failed to receive a CAC sticker.

I'm sure you wont be surprised to hear that I disagree about the CAC sticker. If for no other reason, because I don't want potential buyers to be wondering if my non-CAC coins were rejected by CAC or not. I'll comment on the other matter later.

Here's a similar scenario. You submit a coin, and it is bodybagged for being cleaned. You resubmit it, and it comes back graded MS-62.

 

This is a scenario that we all know has occurred numerous times.

 

Should you disclose that it was previously bodybagged? I would say "no".

[MarkFeld]

If you were a prospective buyer for such a coin would you want to know its previous grade? Regardless of your answer, is that something you feel a seller should disclose?

No, and no.

 

Similarly, it's unnecessary and frivolous to disclose that a coin failed to receive a CAC sticker.

I'm sure you wont be surprised to hear that I disagree about the CAC sticker. If for no other reason, because I don't want potential buyers to be wondering if my non-CAC coins were rejected by CAC or not. I'll comment on the other matter later.

Here's a similar scenario. You submit a coin, and it is bodybagged for being cleaned. You resubmit it, and it comes back graded MS-62.

 

This is a scenario that we all know has occurred numerous times.

 

Should you disclose that it was previously body-bagged? I would say "no".

Even if you thought the body-bag was deserved?

[IGWT]

Irrelevant.

[bsshog40]

I guess it would depend on the Buyer and potential seller. If there was a selling relationship with the two individuals then I don't see disclosing information like this between the two out of just plain ole respect. If it was just a person coming up to buy coins, then I see no reason to disclose any info like this. I'm sure that most sellers would not do this unless it was someone they knew very well.

[physics-fan3.14]

I would say that it is irrelevant and unnecessary. However, I must add that I wouldn't mind knowing a piece of info like that. It gives me a little more knowledge about the history of the coin.

 

To someone like realone who is trying to track down pedigree info, it might also be very useful.

[World Colonial]

No

[RareSov]

a) I would like to know. Always like to know (even if the 20 was clearly wrong)

 

b) No need to though

 

As for CAC, given the reputation of the eyes, I'd want to know for sure if it had been rejected (and would then take a damn hard look)

[Mark T]

I would like to know as much as possible about a coins history before I purchase.

As for CAC I would want to know if it was submitted and rejected. My reason is simple, every certified coin I purchase will at some point be looked at by CAC. A CAC rejection does not mean I will part with the coin. A few that were rejected last year at Coin Fest remain in my collection because I like them. I do not think a seller need to disclose any information about a coin unless asked.

 

[gmarguli]

Freakin' crack out scam artists are ruining this hobby! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: (or so I've been told).

[MAULEMALL]

Freakin' crack out scam artists are ruining this hobby! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: (or so I've been told).

 

Sup Stranger

[MarkFeld]

Freakin' crack out scam artists are ruining this hobby! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: (or so I've been told).

Greg, whether that's true or not, it wasn't the subject of this thread. However, since you've been absent for a long while and are no doubt a bit rusty, I'll excuse your confusion

 

Welcome back.

[Schatzy]

Holy .....Greg just came out swing!! Nice to see you posting again!!

 

 

I think the information is not important but if were me I would like to know!!

 

I would also like to know if the coin didn't get a CAC sticker!!

[gmarguli]

Freakin' crack out scam artists are ruining this hobby! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: (or so I've been told).

Greg, whether that's true or not, it wasn't the subject of this thread. However, since you've been absent for a long while and are no doubt a bit rusty, I'll excuse your confusion

 

Welcome back.

 

 

Sorry, but my moral outrage just blinded me to the question. However, to answer your question, I don't think it matters what the prior grade was. Prior grade is meaningless. The coin is what it currently is. The buyer is either happy buying the coin as a VF35 or they are not.

[physics-fan3.14]

Hey Greg, nice to see you again. Hope you stick around

[WoodenJefferson]

If there has ever been a reason to emphasize the phrase, “Buyer Beware” in a hobby or as an investment vehicle, it’s got to be Numismatics!

 

Even honest collectors get caught up in deceit which they pass off as “white lies” or no harm done, or so they think. In order to gain or break even, it is human nature to overlook small and insignificant facts and relevancy about your possessions your about to pass to one another.

 

I’m not saying that our hobby is rife with scoundrels, I’m just saying that it has more than it’s fare share of shady characters. To get ahead now days, you must omit certain facts and figures, because if you gave complete and utter disclosure, you jeopardize your chances of a sale.

 

We all do it to some degree in one way or the other, it all boils down to ethics and how you treat your fellow human being.

 

I do not think there is a right or wrong answer to this question, it's up to each individual to weigh their conciseness and to make the right decision.

 

[jesbroken]

I think none of the above are fair questions with yes or no answers. Somewhat like a lawyer knowing he's has damned you with either answer. Their are too many pieces of info missing to make a reasonable cut and dried answer to any of the questions posted by Mark or James. JMO

Jim

[James_OldeTowne]

If you were a prospective buyer for such a coin would you want to know its previous grade? Regardless of your answer, is that something you feel a seller should disclose?

No, and no.

 

Similarly, it's unnecessary and frivolous to disclose that a coin failed to receive a CAC sticker.

I'm sure you wont be surprised to hear that I disagree about the CAC sticker. If for no other reason, because I don't want potential buyers to be wondering if my non-CAC coins were rejected by CAC or not. I'll comment on the other matter later.

Here's a similar scenario. You submit a coin, and it is bodybagged for being cleaned. You resubmit it, and it comes back graded MS-62.

 

This is a scenario that we all know has occurred numerous times.

 

Should you disclose that it was previously body-bagged? I would say "no".

Even if you thought the body-bag was deserved?

It matters not. Opinions change from day to day, and to try to record every opinion of a coin that has ever been rendered is impossible, for one thing, and meaninless, for another.

 

I couldn't care less if on April 19th, 2008, a coin was cracked out of one holder and upgraded to another. What's it matter? I only care about the grade it has today, since that is what determines today's price.

 

Ultimately, I sometimes wonder why there is all this insane obsession with what the "grade" is, when the price is really what matters. But it's even worse if you have to start worrying about what the grade is, was, will be, would be, could be and should be.

[TJ'S Coins]

One should but the coin for what it is, not what someone said it was but is no longer. I do not need to know a previous grade or if a coin has been rejected by CAC or even if it was once body-bagged if it isn't now.

 

As long as humans do the evaluating there will always be room for disagreement on grade, beauty and market acceptability. I doubt I would enjoy the hobby as much if robots could be trained to grade coins with alleged consistency.

[Coindude]

Mark, I think that would be something nice to know, but there is no obligation. Sure I'd like to know, but I think if the coin is accurately graded in the holder then what does it really matter? There are tons of coins out there that are undergraded and the same can be said for coins that are overgraded.

[James_OldeTowne]

Sometimes, I have to wonder what it is about this hobby that makes one collector so intolerant of the opinion of others.

 

What is so wrong with understanding that different people can have different opinions about a coin, and that those opinions can change over time?

 

This intolerance says a lot more about the people collecting the coins than it does the coins themselves.

[okbustchaser]

Personally, I would rather not know. It would merely make me wonder what I am not seeing that made the earlier grading team think that it was only a 20.

 

[Schatzy]

Sometimes, I have to wonder what it is about this hobby that makes one collector so intolerant of the opinion of others.

 

What is so wrong with understanding that different people can have different opinions about a coin, and that those opinions can change over time?

 

This intolerance says a lot more about the people collecting the coins than it does the coins themselves.

 

(thumbs u

 

I have thought the same thing. My opinion has changed alot over the last 2 years.

 

An opinion is just that an opinion, sometimes it may be based on education or some times it is just your feelings. Whatever your opinion is it is just that your personal opinion. There will always be someone that doesn't believe what you do!!

[coinman1794]

At this past week's Long Beach show, I bought a Draped Bust coin graded VF35 by PCGS. The seller disclosed that he had acquired it in an old, green label VF20 holder, at a rather healthy premium for that grade. To me, the coin looks accurately graded as a VF35, and in fact, I like it better than another VF35 that just sold in auction for considerably more (roughly 50%) than I am asking for my example.

 

If you were a prospective buyer for such a coin would you want to know its previous grade? Regardless of your answer, is that something you feel a seller should disclose?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

I say absolutely not. The coin is what it is, and I am going to buy it based on what I assess the grade to be, and the price being offered, not what PCGS says today vs. 20 years ago.

[ldhair]

It wouldn't be important to me so I'll answer no and no but that's just me.

 

At the same time I can see where it might be important to someone that wants to search and track the history of an important coin.

[michael]

If you were a prospective buyer for such a coin would you want to know its previous grade? Regardless of your answer, is that something you feel a seller should disclose?

No, and no.

 

 

(thumbs u

[Oldtrader3]

Actually, I would rather not not be given this information. Again, this just illustrates how subjective grading is, even by "professionals".