I think NGC should Improve their Service ..Your THOUGHTS!

[jgrinz]

I recently sent in a coin for crossover. I thought it was a slam dunk for a cross at MS63, HOWEVER, NGC did not think so ... and they are sending it back.

 

DO you think they should call their customers and tell them/US WHAT the grade was and ASK if they/their customers would still like it to be holdered at their grade estimate?. This being especially since TWO out of THREE persons thought this coin to be a 63

 

( Myself and ANACS ) Yes I consider myself somewhat of an expert owning 70 graded Morgans (PCGS/NGC) and feel I can pick a run of the mill grade of a 63 out of a bucket, 91/2 times out of 10 .

 

The coin in question is a highly sought after 1894-s Morgan in an old ANACS MS63 holder and depending on what they decided the grade to be, I may have had them do it anyway. Instead they are taking my 30+ dollars plus insurance plus shipping and sending the coin back.

 

I understand my minimum grade was a MS63, but a phone call if it slabbed a 62, I probably would have said YES, EVEN THOUGH I didn't agree with their grade.

 

It would almost seem they do not want lower graded coins in their holders .. is this possible ..

 

The coin in question is below:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Two things: First, I can't tell a grade from that picture, but it looks like a nice coin. Second, if you wanted it in an NGC holder, why didn't you put cross at any grade? If it didn't upgrade, is the difference between an NGC and ANACS holder that big a deal? That is, unless you're trying to put it in a registry set.

[bsshog40]

I agree with Physics here. If you wanted it to cross, it should have been noted to cross at any grade. If you specifically said not to cross unless 63 or better, why should they call you and double check to see if you changed your mind since then. Btw, the pics are a little small but this Morgan looks at least 63 to me also.

[jgrinz]

I Edited the title to more Qualify my Question - This service would be provided on higher priced/value/damand type coins.

 

[MarkFeld]

DO you think they should call their customers and tell them/US WHAT the grade was and ASK if they/their customers would still like it to be holdered at their grade estimate?.

No.

 

 

Yes I consider myself somewhat of an expert owning 70 graded Morgans

Maybe you're over estimating your abilities. The number that you own doesn't necessarily tell us anything about how well you can grade.

 

.. and feel I can pick a run of the mill grade of a 63 out of a bucket, 91/2 times out of 10 .

Maybe you're over estimating your abilities.

 

I have no idea how accurate the images are, but based on the jaw area of Liberty and the discolored areas, I would have guessed 62 or lower.

 

If you might have been willing to accept a lower crossover grade, it might have been you, not NGC, who wasted your money.

[TomB]

I don't know that NGC should attempt to contact their customers in these cases since a phone call might end up being phone-tag with an answering machine while emails can sit unanswered for days or even weeks. In either case there is an additional amount of effort expended by NGC in the contact attempt, though an email might be automatically generated, and also greater liability for additional coins, but perhaps more importantly there is the timeline for action. How many phone calls should be attempted over what period of time? Who has the ability to authorize this change in service on behalf of the customer? Is the change then in writing to protect NGC and the customer? How long must NGC wait for a return email? I would imagine there may be other points, too. It seems to me that if one wants a coin in a certain holder they either buy that coin in that holder, submit a raw coin to that service or cross at any grade and take their chances.

[jgrinz]

I have no idea how accurate the images are, but based on the jaw area of Liberty and the discolored areas, I would have guessed 62 or lower.

 

I saw the coin in hand and under magnification its a definte 63 hence my reason for crossing at same grade.

 

The reason I used 9 out of 10 in my example is thats what my guessing percentage guessing grades here on the boards from pictures.(Morgans)

 

Having 20-30 or so coins to compare to from both PCGS and NGC gives me a pretty good idea on what they are looking for in a MS63 - which I consider a basic grade when a coin is above an AU/62 but below 64.

 

They have never had to play telephone tag with me / email tag yes

 

I do not think I over over estimating my abilities - it is one catagory I do know and I take offense (TWICE) at that statement.

 

Again this would be a Customer service thing where the its not your run of the mill coin being inspected by them ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MarkFeld]

I have no idea how accurate the images are, but based on the jaw area of Liberty and the discolored areas, I would have guessed 62 or lower.

 

I saw the coin in hand and under magnification its a definte 63 hence my reason for crossing at same grade.

 

The reason I used 9 out of 10 in my example is thats what my guessing percentage guessing grades here on the boards from pictures.(Morgans)

 

Having 20-30 or so coins to compare to from both PCGS and NGC gives me a pretty good idea on what they are looking for in a MS63 - which I consider a basic grade when a coin is above an AU/62 but below 64.

 

They have never had to play telephone tag with me / email tag yes

 

I do not think I over over estimating my abilities - it is one catagory I do know and I take offense (TWICE) at that statement.

 

Again this would be a Customer service thing where the its not your run of the mill coin being inspected by them ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You shouldn't need magnification to be able to grade the coin, so that makes me wonder a bit. You are free to take offense over my comment that you might be overestimating your grading abilities, but many people are guilty of that.

 

Edited to add: I taught the ANA's advanced grading class at Colorado Springs 2 or 3 times. There were numerous students there who had been involved with coins for a long time and were pretty much clueless. Often it was due to a lack of perspective and/or not having been taught or learned about grading correctly in the first place.

[jgrinz]

You shouldn't need magnification to be able to grade the coin, so that makes me wonder a bit. You are free to take offense over my comment that you might be overestimating your grading abilities, but many people are guilty of that.

 

Its what NGC does so I do too

 

[gmarguli]

You shouldn't need magnification to be able to grade the coin, so that makes me wonder a bit. You are free to take offense over my comment that you might be overestimating your grading abilities, but many people are guilty of that.

 

Its what NGC does so I do too

 

I highly doubt that NGC uses magnification to grade Morgans. Too look at diagnostics, perhaps, but to grade, no.

[TomB]

You shouldn't need magnification to be able to grade the coin, so that makes me wonder a bit. You are free to take offense over my comment that you might be overestimating your grading abilities, but many people are guilty of that.

 

Its what NGC does so I do too

Other than to identify difficult varieties, inspect a possible problem or to spot counterfeit coinage, I don't believe either NGC, PCGS, ANACS or ICG use magnification for general grading.

[MarkFeld]

You shouldn't need magnification to be able to grade the coin, so that makes me wonder a bit. You are free to take offense over my comment that you might be overestimating your grading abilities, but many people are guilty of that.

 

Its what NGC does so I do too

Based on my 7 years there, with respect to business strike Morgan Dollars in that grade range, I disagree. Though, to be fair, it's possible that things are very different these days.

[cpm9ball]

Mike, the photo you posted is an 1894-S, not a 1904-S as you mention.

 

Chris

[coinman1794]

Getting back to the initial point, I think it would be helpful for NGC to at least provide their grade for the coin, if not actually call the customer in real time. With that said, PCGS discontinued their program of giving their grade for DNC grossovers on October 1st!

[jgrinz]

Mike, the photo you posted is an 1894-S, not a 1904-S as you mention.

 

Chris

 

Typo and fixed thanks

 

[Just Bob]

Other than to identify difficult varieties, inspect a possible problem or to spot counterfeit coinage, I don't believe either NGC, PCGS, ANACS or ICG use magnification for general grading.

 

Does that include small coins like dimes, half dimes, and 3-cent pieces?

[Dcoin]

I'm a little confused?

 

You tell them cross at 63, it doesn't, so now they should call you and ask if you are sure?

 

 

[ant]

i recently sent a sub to ngc it contained a 1979 s t2 pr set. when it first arived they had marked the 1c a t1 . i called mike and he fixed it. but towards the end of there trip the sba was labeled t1. i know its not a t1 and maybe they were too bizzy i dont know but i have to now send back the one coin i made sure was an open s cause its worth the most. i have sent 5 t2 sets and i was correct on all but this last one.are they just guessing, i dont know.do they know what an open s is? i dont know.

 

will i blame them, maybe, but i could have called and complained a second time. they even took the fee for reholder and i had asked if they all grade the same type to do it. they didnt all grade a t2 but they kept the money.

 

remember: to error is human.

 

im glad we dont have computers trying to grade them

 

and yes sometimes i think they look at some different things. like how many they have graded ,how many they want graded at a certin grade and type , or maybe even they dont want to update pop report so they BB a lot. these things i dont know. but i cant control that so i will just work with what i got

 

also the one cross over i did went well cause i put in the slot to grade if it was (62+) that way they knew if it was lower than that not to do it but didnt single out a grade.

[Schatzy]

I'm a little confused?

 

You tell them cross at 63, it doesn't, so now they should call you and ask if you are sure?

 

 

That was just what I was thinking!!

 

You put on your invoice the min. grade is 63 or do not cross.

NGC just did what you told them to do and now you think they need to improve there service???

[kryptonitecomics]

I find it hard to agree with your logic about their customer service.....

 

As for your grading skills.....I believe that you are probably very effective at grading Morgans...I know that I consider myself somewhat of an expert, which is typically evident by my submission results matching my predications exactly but.....

 

from time to time NGC's opinion varies from mine....by one point up or down. I don't consider them wrong, but simply we have a different opinion and potentially a slightly different standard. The fact that I might show a coin to several dealer friends and we concur on a grade does little to change the fact that it's our opnion vs NGC's opinion. (thumbs u

 

Please post some better images if you get a chance as I would like a chance to see what NGC saw.....

[Conder101]

NGC did exactly what you told them to do. If you would have been satisfied with it coming back a an NGC 62 you should have specified that as the minimum grade

[prudden]

"It would almost seem they do not want lower graded coins in their holders .. is this possible .."

 

He3y jgrinz,

Well, if you go by what they gave my 4 coins+ 2 BB's,they don't mind lower grade MS coins in their slabs. Man,I got hosed. I thought I was little better than that.

 

And, no I don't think they have the time to call and ask if you wouldn't ming a lower grade. I suppose they could offer that service on topo of Crossover/Min grade,but I think it's not necessary.

[coinman1794]

I'm a little confused?

 

You tell them cross at 63, it doesn't, so now they should call you and ask if you are sure?

 

 

That was just what I was thinking!!

 

You put on your invoice the min. grade is 63 or do not cross.

NGC just did what you told them to do and now you think they need to improve there service???

 

The problem is you can't find out what grade they do think it is, and it would be nice to know this. Until yesterday, PCGS was issuing a label with PCGS grade on it for coins that did not cross. That is a very helpful service.

[Schatzy]

 

The problem is you can't find out what grade they do think it is, and it would be nice to know this. Until yesterday, PCGS was issuing a label with PCGS grade on it for coins that did not cross. That is a very helpful service.

 

Yes, you can don't put a min. grade and you will find out what NGC thinks!!

[BankNote1]

I find many collectors try to look to closely at their coins that they are trying to grade. Also many collectors just look straight down on the coin and not rotate the coin in hand. A decent light is also a must for me to grade anything. I'm with most here you don't need a loupe to grade a MS63 Morgan. I do OK from AU to MS65 on grading Morgan's although MS66 and up at times I need a little help from my loupe.

 

You stated that the coin was in an ANACS holder. Is it a newer holder or the small white holder? If it is the small white holder with a number below 1 million I'd send it in again! If the coin is in a newer ANACS holder I wouldn't bother trying to cross the coin.

 

I have found that sometimes the second time is the charm. I have had a good many coins that NGC crossed at a lower grade that upgraded after I got them in a NGC holder and sent them in for re-grade! I have found PCGS to be the same way as well. NGC and PCGS like their holders better than another brand's holders.

 

[MarkFeld]

If it is the small white holder with a number below 1 million I'd send it in again! If the coin is in a newer ANACS holder I wouldn't bother trying to cross the coin.

I wouldn't base my decision on what holder the coin was in. Perceived standards by any given grading company at any given time are completely irrelevant when it comes to individual coins.

[jesbroken]

I know from experience that when dealing with assembly line type work methods such as I imagine NGC utilizes, it is truly nonproductive for anything to stop or slow the system. A one minute ordeal can escalate into a ten minute slow down.

I did not see your answer as to whether you had specifically requested for the coin to not be slabbed below MS63, for if you did, then most certainly they did not have any reason to contact you. If you did not, I do not understand why they are sending it back without having slabbed it. So, therefore, they must have done as they were instructed and I feel no problem with their actions.

We all have had coins we do not feel were graded correctly and quite possible this is sometimes the case, but when you select their system to have your coin graded you are at their mercy. Pretty much end of story.

Good luck

Jim

[coinman1794]

 

The problem is you can't find out what grade they do think it is, and it would be nice to know this. Until yesterday, PCGS was issuing a label with PCGS grade on it for coins that did not cross. That is a very helpful service.

 

Yes, you can don't put a min. grade and you will find out what NGC thinks!!

 

In some cases, that's like sending your coin through the mail with no insurance...you could loose your !

[just-john]

some days maybe they were out of ms63 stickers and only had ms 62's just keep resubmitting till you catch them on a day when they only ms 65 stickers

[jgrinz]

some days maybe they were out of ms63 stickers and only had ms 62's just keep resubmitting till you catch them on a day when they only ms 65 stickers