Sad Loss of a Coin Venue

[jackson64]

In the furor last week of ebay announcing their ban on money orders and checks as Legal Tender at their website starting in October---another large change has been neglected in conversation.

 

An Ebay fee change for Coin Sellers--starting Sept16th their FVF will jump from 8.75% to 12% on the first $50 of an item and then the remainder up to $1000 has jumped from 3.5% to a whopping leap of 9% !!!..

 

As example: you sell a nice MS65 Morgan for $300.....you pay the initial $6 for the first $50 then another $22.50 for the other $250..total $28.50...

 

Sept 15th---$13.12 FVF

Sept 16th--$28.50 FVF...

 

What I find disturbing is how this will eliminate/effect the young numismatists and lower budget collectors--there just won't be any lower value items for sale anymore, a seller could easily lose money on any sale of $10 or less..

[YeahToast]

What I find disturbing is how this will eliminate/effect the young numismatists and lower budget collectors--there just won't be any lower value items for sale anymore, a seller could easily lose money on any sale of $10 or less..

 

Those of us with access to them will continue to patronize local brick & mortar shops and shows. Pointing the young and low-budget collectors in that direction should become a priority if it isn't already.

[cpm9ball]

What I find disturbing is how this will eliminate/effect the young numismatists and lower budget collectors--there just won't be any lower value items for sale anymore, a seller could easily lose money on any sale of $10 or less..

 

Those of us with access to them will continue to patronize local brick & mortar shops and shows. Pointing the young and low-budget collectors in that direction should become a priority if it isn't already.

 

Hey, "Toasty", welcome to the neighborhood!

 

Yep, they've gone from SleazeBay to SleazePay.

 

Chris

[BillJones]

This is an example of where you hope capitalism works its magic on thinning out the herd. Ebay is becoming an increasingly hostile environment in which to do business, and for that they deserve to lose customers big time.

[DirtyGoldMan]

Add in the PayPal fees, listing fees, and it appears that you are better off selling to a dealer. Ebay has eaten away any premium for selling coins on their site.

 

Do you have a link to this new fee structure?

[Mark T]

A lot of EBAY sellers have moved to Teletrade to sell their certified coins.

I purchase all my certified coins from Heritage or Bowers.

EBAY is a major disappointment, to many scams and grading fraud is rampant.

I guess I better get all my Raw coins listed before 9/16 !!

 

[jgrinz]

Looks like its time to have a clearance sale - I however have been very satisfied dealing with DLRC on trade ins so that is probably the route I will go to unload the amased collection I am pruning down

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Wow, that is a huge jump. Thanks for letting us know, Jackson.

[jgrinz]

Yep and a Huge chunk of people will be jumping ship

[jtryka]

I better sell before the 16th!

[Coindude]

Don't forget about eauctionemporium.com Ant's place, the home of the 5 cent listing!

[jtryka]

well, I am going truck shopping Friday, so I might need to sell in a hurry anyway!

[PrezErrors]

Check this one out before ebay catches it. No more ebay for this seller we should all be doing it so they get the message.

 

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Foreign-Coin-BYE-BYE-E-BAY_W0QQitemZ310078691392QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item310078691392&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[SRWNC-migration]

I just want to provide a clarification of the new ebay Fixed Price listing fees going in effect on September 16, 2008. While the fees will increase, it is not as drastic as previously explained in this thread. I have verified all of the below with my ebay account manager, and these rates will apply for any coin listing.

 

The changes are ONLY for FIXED PRICE listings on the main ebay site. Auctions and Ebay Store listings are NOT affected by this new fee structure and fees for those types of listing WILL NOT CHANGE. So if you are selling via an auction or ebay store format, you will NOT be affected.

 

The FIXED PRICE listing changes are as follows:

 

Current FIXED Price Fees:

 

INSERTION FEES:

LISTING PRICE / INSERTION FEE (up to 7 days)

$1.00 - $9.99 / $0.35

$10.00 - $24.99 / $0.55

$25.00 - $49.99 / $1.00

$50.00 - $199.99 / $2.00

$200.00 - $499.99 / $3.00

$500 or more / $4.00

 

FINAL VALUE FEES:

LISTING PRICE / FINAL VALUE FEE

$1.00 - $24.99 / 8.75%

$25.00 - $999.99 / 8.75% of first $24.99 plus 3.50% of balance

$1000.00 or more / 8.75% of first $24.99, plus 3.50% of amout $25.00 - $999.99, plus 1.50% of balance

 

 

NEW FIXED Price Fees:

 

NEW INSERTION FEES:

LISTING PRICE / INSERTION FEE (up to 30 days)

$1.00 or more / $0.35

 

NEW FINAL VALUE FEES:

LISTING PRICE / FINAL VALUE FEE

$1.00 - $50.00 / 12.00%

$50.01 - $1000.00 / 12.00% of first $50.00 plus 6.00% of balance

$1000.01 or more / 12.00% of first $50.00, plus 6.00% of amout $50.01 - $1000.00, plus 2.00% of balance

 

So for the example given in this thread for a coin selling in a Fixed Price listing for $300.00:

 

Current Ebay Fees:

Insertion Fee: $3.00 for up to 7 Day Listing

Final Value Fee: $11.81 ($24.99 x 8.75% = $2.19 plus $275.01 x 3.5% = $9.62)

Total Fees: $14.81

 

New Ebay Fees (Effective Sep 16th):

Insertion Fee - $0.35 for up to 30 days listing

Final Value Fee: $21.00 ($50 x 12% = $6.00 plus $250 x 6% = $15.00)

Total Fees: $21.35

 

The one good part about this new structure is if you list a more expensive Fixed Price item and it doesn't sell in 30 days, you are only out the $0.35 insertion fee versus the current tiered insertion fee structure that increases in fee amount based on the item price.

 

In the case of the $300 coin given in this thread, if it doesn't sell you are only out the $0.35 insertion fee in the new structure versus the $3.00 insertion fee in the current structure.

 

The BAD part about this last point is that I am willing to bet that there will be a SIGNIFICANT increase in Fixed Price listings with outrageously high prices when this change goes in effect as it only costs you $0.35 to see if you can find a sucker willing to pay through the nose for your item.

 

Note that part of this change is that instead of only a 7 day listing currently, you will now be able to have a listing run for 30 days.

 

Also if you have a multiple item Fixed Price listing (say 10 items at $50.00 each), in the new structure you will only get charged the insertion fee for one item ($0.35 total). Currently, you get charged an insertion fee based on the total number of items available in the listing multiplied by the item price (in this case, 10 items x $50 each = $500, so ebay charges an insertion fee of $4.00).

 

I just wanted to provide this information as I think there is confusion about these changes by ebay and what types of listings are affected.

 

Sean

SRWNC

 

[nwcs]

Well, I guess I bought my last coin (the 1853 G$1) at ebay. I don't see it as all that negative, though. I'll have more incentive to do business with the good guy dealers I've interacted with and met over the years. And I have some money to spend soon.

[Houston Investor]

Buyers will have to understand many sellers will only ship to confirmed paypal addresses only. As one ebay seller (a local dealer) tells me "It would be prudent to block buyers with low FB and block paypal payments from unconfirmed addresses." I asked him what if they will get mad their paypal payment did not go thru. He said "Thats their problem and I will file nonpayment with ebay if they don't pay. The worst thing is some insufficiently_thoughtful_person with an unconfirmed address, unverified paypal user, and a feedback of say 3 buying 5 or 10 items. Ebay has a way you can block them and you better do it. A lot of them are scam artists and will try to lure you with the idea of a big sale, especially during the slow summer months. I hate these scum. Don't fall for it."

 

What makes all this more obnoxious is the stupid new FB rules, the change to 100% paypal, and now much higher fees? All things have a lifespan and it looks like this will be running out for a lot of sellers on the bay. Frankly, unless your selling an item over $100 I don't think its worth using the bay anyway. But if you do, just make sure its a nice high profit item with a keystone markup - say 100% so you can come out ahead of the fees. They say it takes a markup of at least 40% to make it in the coin business and the truth of this is becomming more obvious every day.

[thebeav]

Thank you for the clarification Sean.

 

Paul

[jackson64]

thanks for clarifying Sean...you must have strong ties with ebay--your post is not accurate, mine was....

 

the initial $6 fee for the first $50 plus 9%--NINE percent not the 6% you quoted...coins do not fall under the 6% category, they fall under the 5.5% increase of 9%..

 

and if you want to get fully realistic by adding insertion fees, final value fees--we may as well add paypal fees since it will be mandatory..throw in a cap on shipping costs which will have to be done through them also ( which will cost most sellers a loss when materials, time, postage, gas to post office etc..)

 

added all together and the total is closer to $36 !!! on a $300 sale..that is 12% of your money...

 

in perspective, a 12-15% consignment fee by a major auction house who has thousands of buyersand does the work of listing and pics--it's starting to sound like a bargain to me--plus when you get paid, it's your money...not stuck in a paypal account which can be frozen or incrementally allotted to you $500 at a time...

 

Sean, your point is well made though about ebay turning into a bunch of over-priced, fixed price items and regular auctions will die off--it won't take long for ebay to just be an online store and not the fun auction place that made it unique---greed killed a good thing--what were they thinking???

[michael]

EBAY is a major disappointment, to many scams and grading fraud is rampant.

 

 

good riddence

[ant]

Don't forget about eauctionemporium.com Ant's place, the home of the 5 cent listing!

 

(thumbs u

[EZ_E]

That's outrageous! I just noticed the 8.75% today. I never realized it was that high. The new rates are just asinine! I won't be selling there much anymore!

[coinman1794]

http://pages.ebay.com/sell/August2008Update/BasicFees/

 

Scroll down to the final value fees for fixed price listings. Only clothing, shoes, and accessories go to 9%; "all other categories" go to 6%.

 

Of course its still absurd, but I really dont see all that many people abandoning ebay...buyers don't pay fees. I do think its a bad move to eliminate checks and MOs, because not everyoine has paypal. That was the great equilizing factor of ebay...anyone could participate. Now they cant.

[SRWNC-migration]

thanks for clarifying Sean...you must have strong ties with ebay--your post is not accurate, mine was....

 

the initial $6 fee for the first $50 plus 9%--NINE percent not the 6% you quoted...coins do not fall under the 6% category, they fall under the 5.5% increase of 9%..

 

Hi jackson64,

 

When these fee changes were announced, I called my ebay account manager to get clarification on how this will affect my coin sales on ebay as the initial ebay announcement was not exactly clear as far as start dates, which fees apply to each categories, etc. When I posted here, I was just trying to share the information I received with the rest of the board in the interest of accuracy. I did not mean any disrespect, and if any was taken I sincerely apologize. None was intended.

 

On my "strong ties with ebay" - I have been selling on ebay for 4.5 years, a Powerseller for the past 4 years, and an ebay designated 'Top Seller' for the past 2 years (ebay assigns top sellers a fixed account manager who assists with any ebay issues such as ebay site issues, bad buyer issues/problems, policy changes, growth plan development, etc), exclusively from selling coins. Trust me, I'm not happy about these fee increases and told my account manager as much, but only the Buy.com's of the world get discounts from the published ebay rates. I was not defending ebay in any way, just trying to provide accurate information.

 

Here's the ebay page that my ebay account manager pointed me to that explains the new Fixed Price listing fees:

 

Ebay New Fixed Price Fee Structure

 

If you go down to the bottom of the page to the last 2 tables, you can see the FVF rates that apply to each category of item. My ebay account manager walked through this page with me on the phone and confirmed what I said in my previous post. If this ebay webpage/my account manager's explanation is wrong and you have better information, then can you please share your source so I can contact my ebay account manager again and ask for him to clarify.

 

Here's the basics on the Final Value Fees (FVF) per category:

 

Computers & Networking - First $50 @ 6%, up to $1000 @ 3.75%, rest @ 1%

Cameras & Photo - First $50 @ 8%, up to $1000 @ 4.5%, rest @ 1%

Electonics & Video Game Systems - First $50 @ 8%, up to $1000 @ 4.5%, rest @ 1%

Books, Music, DVD, Movies, Video Games - First $50 @ 15%, up to $1000 @ 5%, rest @ 2%

Parts & Accessories (Motor) - First $50 @ 12%, up to $1000 @ 9%, rest @ 2%

Clothing, Shoes, & Accessories - First $50 @ 12%, up to $1000 @ 9%, rest @ 2%

ALL OTHER CATEGORIES - First $50 @ 12%, up to $1000 @ 6%, rest @ 2%

 

I didn't include Paypal because the Paypal fees are not changing, and 90% of my ebay customers already pay with Paypal. This is a non-issue for me. It's a cost of doing business, and my Paypal rates are actually lower than my credit card processors rates. I have NEVER had any money stuck in my Paypal account. I can withdraw any amount up to whatever I have in there and it clears my bank in 3 days. They only freeze your account if you have a poor transaction record/high claim rate against history. I've only had 3 buyers file Paypal claims against me in 4 years, and I won all three cases easily (it pays to video record the packaging and shipping process and keep good records).

 

The new shipping charge caps that ebay has talked about are only for the Books, DVDs & Movies, Music, and Video Games categories. (see ebay page: Ebay FAQ page on Shipping Charges Caps, other updates ) There have not been any caps established for other categories, and per ebay's own information page about these shipping caps, they do not have any other categories scheduled for shipping caps:

 

"Will this apply to other categories in the future?

We currently do not have other categories scheduled. Consistent with any other major change we've made to our policies, we will let our sellers know well in advanced to adjust their listings."

 

 

 

Sean

SRWNC

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Sean, your posts are very valuable. I hope you'll post here more often.

[agentjim007]

I better sell before the 16th!

wouldn't you need them to end before the 16th?

[jackson64]

you are right Sean and I apologize to e1 if my posts were misleading--not intentional. I looked at the heading "clothes, shoes and all other categories, then perused the left column for the interval of $ amount--failed to notice the multi-columned layout and various and different fees for so many different things--I honestly don't know how you sellers keep track of your actual profit ratios with so much involved...

 

again, my sincerest apologies for my error--still though, from $14 to $21 is still a pretty significant hike...and that's with their new "lower fees" and doesn't include the fee you pay for accepting payment...

 

Sean--and I'm not trying to be argumentative---if ebays' new "money orders, checks and cash are not legal tender here" policy is going to cost you 10% of your business ( the ones who pay with these methods), how can you say you are not affected by their new paypal only policy?

[SRWNC-migration]

Sean--and I'm not trying to be argumentative---if ebays' new "money orders, checks and cash are not legal tender here" policy is going to cost you 10% of your business ( the ones who pay with these methods), how can you say you are not affected by their new paypal only policy?

 

Jackson64,

 

To be honest, although checks and money orders make up around 10% of our ebay sales, these transactions cause around 90% of the problems we have with bad transactions/fraud attempts on ebay.

 

Wrong Payment Type - While we clearly state in all of our listings that the only type of money order we accept are USPS money orders and we don't accept any cashiers checks, buyers either don't read the listing or just ignore it and send whatever type of payment they want. This has been occuring MUCH more frequently since ebay has eliminated the ability to leave negative feedback for buyers. Then we have to either accept the payment and take on the risk it is invalid, or contact the buyer for replacement payment, and then wait for a response from the buyer. Many times the buyer never responds, or they respond that their payment is "good" and we should trust them and if we will not accept the payment then just forget about the transaction, or one of my favorites that we are breaking some type of local/state law and they will have their lawyer contact us (of course we have never received any such contact from their 'lawyers').

 

Fraudulent Money Orders/Cashiers Checks - If we do accept the non-USPS money order or cashiers check payment based on the ebay buyers "excellent" track record (feedback percentage and comments), we take on the risk of the payment being fraudulent or counterfeit. In the past we did this more often, especially before ebay eliminated being able to leave a buyer negative feedback, and found that almost 100% of the fraudulent payments we received from ebay buyers were from these payment methods. We have never received a fraudulent USPS money order, plus we can verify they are valid with our post office before presenting to our bank for deposit. We've only received one bad personal check in 4 years, and the buyer immediately replaced it with good funds when we contacted him. Plus we only shipped out to confirmed Paypal shipment addresses in most cases.

 

Increased Clearance Time by our Bank - Another downside is our bank has significantly increased the clearance time for all money orders and out-of-state checks deposited to our account due to fraudulent payments we have received. This causes a delay in clearance of legitimate payments from honest customers, and delays our shipments of their purchases. This results in an increase in the number of emails/phone calls we receive from ebay buyers asking when their purchase will ship. Plus now that ebay has the DSR's (Details Seller Ratings) and use these rating to determine the FVF we pay via their Discount Program for Powersellers based on the DSR's, some customers get impatient waiting for clearance and then give us a low DSR for shipping time because it takes a few extra days for their payment to clear before we ship. This results in us paying higher ebay fees overall, which BY FAR outweighs any savings we get from the buyers not using Paypal.

 

Non-Payment - Approximately 70% of the ebay transactions that the buyer never sends payment are ones that they indicate they are paying with check or money order. The payment never arrives, we have to send reminder invoices, then file a claim for non-payment with ebay after 10 days from purchase date. The claim process takes an additional 8 days before ebay releases the transaction, refunds our transactions fees, and allows us to relist the item. Plus all of this takes up a disproportionate amount of our time for transactions that we never receive payment.

 

Repeat Good Customers who use Personal Checks/USPS Money Orders - We do have several repeat good ebay customers who use Personal Checks and USPS money orders. Most of them now buy directly from us (non-ebay direct purchases) and we provide a discount to these customers for allowing us to avoid ebay fees.

 

Direct Credit Card Payments (non-Paypal) Being Implemented Into Ebay Checkout System - Many of the ebay customers who use checks or money orders have told us that they dislike Paypal, but would use a credit card if ebay provided that option without going through Paypal, or having to call the seller with their credit card information. Ebay will soon update their checkout system to allow us to integrate our credit card gateway directly into the ebay checkout. Users will enter in their credit card information in the secure ebay checkout (not Paypal), and it will be automatically be sent to our credit card gateway for immediate approval. This change has been one that many sellers, including us, have requested ebay to make for a long time. We feel this change would eliminate the majority of the checks/money order payments from legitimate ebay buyers even if ebay was not formally eliminating the option to use a check/money order.

 

Disclaimer - Of course, every ebay seller will be affected differently based on their size and business model. Casual or infrequent ebay sellers may be impacted more by these changes, and I am not trying to make light of their situation in any way. I'm just answering your question based on my ebay business model.

 

Sean

SRWNC

[jackson64]

best of luck to you Sean and I hope for your continued success...

[zrlevin]

Non-Payment - Approximately 70% of the ebay transactions that the buyer never sends payment are ones that they indicate they are paying with check or money order. The payment never arrives, we have to send reminder invoices, then file a claim for non-payment with ebay after 10 days from purchase date. The claim process takes an additional 8 days before ebay releases the transaction, refunds our transactions fees, and allows us to relist the item. Plus all of this takes up a disproportionate amount of our time for transactions that we never receive payment.

 

I have had this problem outside of eBay as well.

[jtryka]

I better sell before the 16th!

wouldn't you need them to end before the 16th?

 

When I say "sell" I mean the transaction is done.