How did Eliasberg do it for only $450,000?

[BillJones]

Louis Eliasberg formed one of the most remarkable collections of U.S. coins in history. When his collection went on display at the Philadelphia mint in 1976, it contained virtually all of the coins listed in the Red Book. Some years ago when Eliasberg’s copper, nickel and silver coins went up for auction I read that his total investment in coins came to about $450,000. Today $450,000 wouldn’t even be a down payment on one of Eliasberg’s great rarities like the 1913 Liberty nickel, 1804 silver dollar, 1870-S three dollar gold and the 1822 five dollar gold among many others. Back then less than half a million bought everything. How did he do it? How low were the prices back then?

 

Eliasberg started to collect coins during the depths of The Great Depression. He became interested in coins because it offered a way for him to add gold coins legally to his investment portfolio. Franklin Roosevelt’s gold surrender order forbid the ownership of gold by American citizens except in the form of a numismatic collection. This last provision provided Eliasberg with his “in.”

 

In attempt to get a handle on the prices of the period, I pulled out a First Edition of the Red Book, which is dated 1947 but was actually published in 1946. I used the price quotes from there to get an estimate of what my 1795 year set and my partially complete early gold coin type set was worth back then. The results were interesting and a bit humbling. While there are some flaws in my numbers, it none the less shows that prices were very low way back when compared to today, and probably lower before World War Two.

 

One of the big problems with the 1947 Red Book quotes is that the prices by grade are very limited. For the early half cents, for example, prices are only listed for Good and Fine. For early gold, only prices for Fine and Unc. are listed. Since many of my early coins are EF or AU obviously the numbers in the old Red Book are low. And since all of my early gold coins are in AU, the numbers would be a bit high. A mitigating factor, however is that many AU coins were sold as Mint State pieces in those days. Grading was not as precise as it is today. Still here are some interesting numbers for my 1795 year set:

 

 

Coin My Grade Red Book Price Grade Red Book Price

 

Half Cent AU-58 Fine $15.00

Cent AU-50 Fine 8.00

Half Dime AU-58 Fine 10.00

Half Dollar EF-45 Fine 17.50

Dollar EF-40 VF 35.00

$5 Gold AU-55 Unc. 150.00

$10 Gold AU-53 Unc. 200.00

----------------

Total $435.50

 

As you can see all of the 1795 dated coins were worth less than $450 back then. BUT a really good job paid $100 a week.

 

Still you can see how Eliasberg did it.

 

[MunkyMan95]

$1 went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay farther back then, than it does now.

[zrlevin]

 

Very interesting!

 

These days, a really good job pays about $2000 per week. Does that mean that today Eliasberg would have to pay ~ $9,000,000? How much do the keys you mentioned go for today (1913 5c, 1804 S$1, etc.)?

[MunkyMan95]

If you can get one, I think TDN and Legend sold his 1913 Nickel for $5 Million.

[zrlevin]

[WoodenJefferson]

Bill, as we all know or realize, everything ran a whole lot slower back then, modern conveniences for information relied on teletype, telephone and last but not least the regular mail system. Also there were daily publications such as newspapers and monthly publications as in magazines and other forms of monthly newsprint.

 

Daily life was methodical and direct and it seemed like there were more hours in the day in order to achieve what we now consider rat race technology

 

Eliasberg put the bulk of his collection together from the 1920’s through the 1950’s surviving stock market crashes, depression and even a world war. Not exactly the best time for this endeavor, but if you had the money available it could not have been a better time. It must have been a very lop sided time for coin dealers though, when collectors were selling with very few buyers lining up to purchase great coins and entire collections.

 

I have read once before that Eliasberg had a network of major dealers on the look out for coins to fill voids and dealers would also boast to other dealers and collectors that they in fact sold coins to Eliasberg. So, it was kind of like a two way street that worked out well for all parties involved.

 

He also bought large collections like the Clapp Collection for $100K in 1942. These one time shot buys increased the number of coins he owned and also increased the overall value and the notoriety of continuing to try and have every coin ever minted, his final destination.

 

It worked out well for him and to this day, his name on a coin increases the value 10 fold.

 

 

 

 

[BillJones]

If you can get one, I think TDN and Legend sold his 1913 Nickel for $5 Million.

 

Yea, but it didn't sell for that the first time. In fact I think that it was bought in at an auction. The price of those big, famous rarities depends upon marketing and a desire on the part of the a few very wealthy collectors to push up the bids. You can’t really set an exact value on them.

[Tradedollarnut]

Rumor is that a prominent collector declined to purchase the entire Eliasberg [non-gold] collection for $20M back in 1995. Prices have exploded and I would guesstimate that the collection would be worth on the order of $300M+

 

Who knew!

[MunkyMan95]

If you can get one, I think TDN and Legend sold his 1913 Nickel for $5 Million.

 

Yea, but it didn't sell for that the first time. In fact I think that it was bought in at an auction. The price of those big, famous rarities depends upon marketing and a desire on the part of the a few very wealthy collectors to push up the bids. You cant really set an exact value on them.

 

I thought it was a private sale, but what do I know... Maybe Bruce can enlighten us?

[ctrl-migration]

Rumor is that a prominent collector declined to purchase the entire Eliasberg [non-gold] collection for $20M back in 1995.

I tried to negotiate them down to $19M, but they wouldn't budge and I just didn't want to take out a loan...

[James_OldeTowne]

$450,000, in 1940 dollars is about $7M today.

 

As an aside, $20M in 1995 is like $28M today.

[BankNote1]

If I remember correctly my father started out working for $11.00 a week!!! I don't guess you could collect much on that amount! Times have surely changed!

[MikeInFL]

$450,000, in 1940 dollars is about $7M today.

 

As an aside, $20M in 1995 is like $28M today.

 

That's only you believe the BS inflation statistics from our government. The truth is that the inflation rate between 1995 and today is far more than 40% -- by most estimates it has been 10% in just the last year.

[WoodenJefferson]

Handy Inflation Calculator

[World Colonial]

You can thank the government induced credit inflation for most of the increase in these prices.

[Oldtrader3]

During the Depression, the number of coin collectors in this country would have been at an all time low. My grandfather was an engineer at Bell Labs and was paid half of his salary in ATT stock during the height of the Depression, because Ma Bell had to make concessions to customers, lost many customers and had cash flow problems. He was lucky to have a job at all and knew it.

 

I am sure that there where many nice coin collections available for $0.10/dollar of value, if you looked hard enough during that period from about 1930 to 1938.

[Tradedollarnut]

If you can get one, I think TDN and Legend sold his 1913 Nickel for $5 Million.

 

Yea, but it didn't sell for that the first time. In fact I think that it was bought in at an auction. The price of those big, famous rarities depends upon marketing and a desire on the part of the a few very wealthy collectors to push up the bids. You cant really set an exact value on them.

 

I thought it was a private sale, but what do I know... Maybe Bruce can enlighten us?

 

The coin did not meet my reserve at the FUN auction. It sold privately a few months later for my asking price.

[thebeav]

That's only you believe the BS inflation statistics from our government. The truth is that the inflation rate between 1995 and today is far more than 40% -- by most estimates it has been 10% in just the last year.

 

Boy, I've been preaching that one for years Mike.....Here....Here....

 

Paul

[michael]

Re: How did Eliasberg do it for only $450,000?

 

he had a freaking huge amount of disposable cash in a time into the hundreds of thousands of dollars when people made or were lucky to make a few dollars per week working their collective asses off

 

and in combination with the right opportunities (clapp) and with many dealers surviving just on eliasberg collecting and demand was mucho lower than today for these coins

 

combined to make a synergy for himself

[EZ_E]

Half Cent AU-58 Fine $15.00

 

 

I just purchased this NGC F12 half cent today for $915. That's a darn good price in today's market. The obverse does it for me but I sure compromised my standards with this coin's reverse. I hope that it looks better in hand. The positives are that it is fully centered on both sides, all lettering is strong and I can't argue with the price.

 

[EZ_E]

Plus, Eliasberg constantly had dealers contact him out of the blue to try to sell him their coins. He usually replied, "I already have it but mine is in better shape".

 

 

 

[BillJones]

That half cent is WOW!!!! given the amount that you are paying for it. Yes, it has been cleaned, and for that reason I'm surprised that it found its way into an NGC holder.

 

BUT a great many 1795 half cents are very poorly struck, especially on the reverse in the area of "HALF CENT." I've seen pieces that had similar detail, but more original surfaces sell for $4,000 to $5,000.

 

I'm not trying to show you up here. I just want to make a point about how expensive these coins are in the really top grades. I paid a 5-figure price for this one, which is in a PCGS AU-58 holder. I show this to put things into context. I think you are getting a bargain.

 

 

And here's one I own that NGC refused to grade.

 

[BillJones]

Plus, Eliasberg constantly had dealers contact him out of the blue to try to sell him their coins. He usually replied, "I already have it but mine is in better shape".

 

 

 

Back when I lived in New Jersey I knew a number of collectors who contemporaries of Eliasberg. They said that he was like a vacuum cleaner when came to buying coins. He scooped up everything in sight if he was of a mind to do it.

 

These collectors that I knew were shall I say “well off.” They did not have worry about their next meal, and their collections both inspired me and frustrated me because I could not keep up with them. In short these guys had a lot of resources. Eliasberg had a lot more.

 

[Oldtrader3]

This is why I use the registry mostly as a coin accounting system for descriptions and pictures, not for any sort of competitive play. I do not have the discretionary resources to play one upmanship with anyone else on registry coins. Many of the nicer coins that I have now are remnants of my past collection. However, I am happy to have what I do have now and enjoy my collection.

[ctrl-migration]

This is why I use the registry mostly as a coin accounting system for descriptions and pictures, not for any sort of competitive play. I do not have the discretionary resources to play one upmanship with anyone else on registry coins. Many of the nicer coins that I have now are remnants of my past collection. However, I am happy to have what I do have now and enjoy my collection.

If I ever viewed coin collecting as competitive, I'd quit almost immediately after the thought took root. It's depressing at times to even read posts from people talking about certain purchases, etc. Very pointless and I'd rather not get involved in it if it's just going to make me feel bad.

[EZ_E]

That half cent is WOW!!!! given the amount that you are paying for it. Yes, it has been cleaned, and for that reason I'm surprised that it found its way into an NGC holder.

 

BUT a great many 1795 half cents are very poorly struck, especially on the reverse in the area of "HALF CENT." I've seen pieces that had similar detail, but more original surfaces sell for $4,000 to $5,000.

 

I'm not trying to show you up here. I just want to make a point about how expensive these coins are in the really top grades. I paid a 5-figure price for this one, which is in a PCGS AU-58 holder. I show this to put things into context. I think you are getting a bargain.

 

 

And here's one I own that NGC refused to grade.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback, Bill. And, shoot, you're the king of humbleness so how could I ever take offense? And even if you rubbed it in my face I'd take it 'cause you have the absolute best type collection than anyone else I know personally. You have my numismatic respect bigtime! Not only are you one of the most informative posters on the boards but you literally help me set goals with some coins.

 

Yep, with the apparent corrosion on my 1795, I'm surprised it slabbed as well. But, hey, that strike and dual centering is sweet with a sweet price to match.

 

I still think that your 1797 half cent is the finest EAC that I have ever seen, regardless of the grade. I like it much more than your '95 even though it, too, is a well above average coin.

 

Good post and good info, Bill!

 

p.s. I'm with Charlie. I most certainly can't compete with you, for instance, on the quality of some of my type coins. I just can't. So, I'm content with what I can get. I like my AG3 1796 dime and my P1 Chain cent. Sure, I wish I had better but for what I have, I'm content.

 

Heck, I started this x-ray assignment in mid December. I clear between $1600-2000 per week at my job (and I don't have to pay rent, utilities, cable or phone since it's covered by my agency) and have probably been spending over half of my earnings on coins for 7 months. I still can't afford coins like you. But, that's ok. To each according to his abilities.

 

But I will occasionally upgrade like the 1859 rainbow toned half dime I just picked up last night on the marketplace. A sweet coin that will fit nicely in my collection. (thumbs u

[BillJones]

This is why I use the registry mostly as a coin accounting system for descriptions and pictures, not for any sort of competitive play. I do not have the discretionary resources to play one upmanship with anyone else on registry coins. Many of the nicer coins that I have now are remnants of my past collection. However, I am happy to have what I do have now and enjoy my collection.

If I ever viewed coin collecting as competitive, I'd quit almost immediately after the thought took root. It's depressing at times to even read posts from people talking about certain purchases, etc. Very pointless and I'd rather not get involved in it if it's just going to make me feel bad.

 

One fact that we all need to remember is that the point system for the registry is flawed. Most of my very expensive coins are the early types from 1792 to 1807. Those coins don't get their due when it comes to registry points. You can put together a set of modern coins in grades like PR-70 ultra cameo and MS-68, pay a lot less money, and blow my collection out of the water easily.

 

Second, when you are up against foundations and the like, there is no way you will have the resources to go up against them. They just have incredible amounts of money. At one point an auction house that was selling a collection put that collection up as a registry type set. That just should not happen. The auction house was not a legitimate collector in any way, shape or form. Yet they pushed everybody down a notch for several months.

 

I’m on the registry to provide education and to see if I can have the highest level of completeness. When I see someone ahead of me with only 50 or 60 percent completeness, I discount their standing. When they conceal their holdings so that no one can see what they have, I disregard them.

 

[jtryka]

How did he do it? With $450,000 gold backed dollars, that would be equal to about $20.2 million today, still a remarkable feat!

[Oldtrader3]

Victor, you have nothing to be worried about with your new half cent. I would have bought it in a minute if I had the discretionary funds for purchasing EAC type coins now. I like it very much, however Bill's type set is in a different league than most of us.

[kranky]

Though Eliasberg's finances were obviously essential to his accomplishment, I'm more in awe of the fact that he obtained one of every US coin in just 16 years (as I read in NN).