I've decided that overall, I believe registry sets are bad for collectors...

[MarkFeld]

Please fire away, whether you agree or disagree.

[physics-fan3.14]

Well, there are pros and cons either way. Some people enjoy the competition, and participating in a registry motivates them to finish a set. I know that I personally enjoy having my registry set. It's nothing spectacular, and I am not a fanatic about buying the highest graded just to get more points. But I like having a set online that I can share with other people, and compare to other sets like mine. Some of them have great pictures, and great descriptions, and can be considered a valuable resource (both to waste time looking at them and for the information they give).

 

On the other hand, as I alluded to earlier, many are driven to buy the highest graded coin possible, even if it is butt ugly, or even worse worthless without the plastic shell. This in turn provides incentive to TPGs to overgrade, and it also makes MS70 modern widgets into expensive modern widgets, all for the sake of points. On this count, I agree with you.

 

On the whole, I think the registries are a good thing. Too much of a good thing, or a good thing abused, can make it into a bad thing. I love broccoli, and no one can argue that isn't good for you, but eating too much is going to make you sick.

 

I would be curious as to your reasoning and opinions on the matter. I know you like to stir the pot, but there must be some reasoning behind it.

[rrantique]

[bsshog40]

I actually like my registry. It got me into collecting some of my coins in a different way. I like raw coins better than slabbed, but my registry kind of gives me more of a goal towards a certain series than just buying something different here and there with the only reasoning behind it is to have something different. I'm not into the competition part of it at all. I like looking at others registries also just to see the many types of coins and also the condition that alot are in. I've seen some very nice coins in grades that I know will never be able to see in-hand. I think it's just another venue outside of the normal veiwing of coins. It's also another way for me to look at certain series, see the grades, and to help me with the characteristics of what makes a coins grade. I use other's registries actually as a knowledge tool for coins I don't really collect but like to look at.

[BULLY]

Part of what I like about registry sets is that while many of my sets are incomplete, in some cases, I learn about varities of coins that I didn't know existed, and then I can seek them out. With no local coin clubs in my area, nor any local coin shops, it's probably something I wouldn't have discovered on my own. The NGC Registry opened my eyes to complete sets of coins, and to achieving a goal.

 

A downside is that I almost feel like because of the competiton, I will load all coins, even creating multiples of the same sets, just to get some high grade coins in there, even if it may be a set that is only 10%-25% complete, but it adds a lot of points because I have more than one of the same coin.

 

I also regret that I don't scan or photograph more of my coins for the sets, though I tend to write about them, whether it be just what the coin is, how I collected it, or anything of particular note about the coin.

[jgrinz]

I believe it leads to compulsive disorders which no one knew they had ...

I being one.

 

 

[leeg]

If one has no discipline, will buy the holder and not the coin, to fill a hole.

[WoodenJefferson]

As far as trying to up grade a coin by cracking it out or to attempt a cross only for the sake of a registry set entry, yes, then I strongly disagree. But as far as a way for a collector to express themselves, yes, then I’m all for registries.

 

The grading services really hit a chord when these were introduced and found many ready and willing players. As long as it remains a fun hobby and does not cut into the household budget or distract to a point of obsession, then let the players play.

 

I collect, therefore I am.

 

[World Colonial]

Well, I certainly believe they probably made at least some coins more expensive that they otherwise would be. I hope there are never any registry sets for my series.

[cpm9ball]

Personally, I have no interest in Registry sets. I collect what gives me pleasure but does not limit me to specific parameters. I may have a little of this or a lot of that, and the enjoyment I derive from any or all of them is part of me. If others find pleasure in participating in the Registry, that's fine, but if someone is trying to build a Registry set just because they are trying to keep up with the Joneses, then they should find some new neighbors.

 

Chris

[MarkFeld]

Well, there are pros and cons either way. Some people enjoy the competition, and participating in a registry motivates them to finish a set. I know that I personally enjoy having my registry set. It's nothing spectacular, and I am not a fanatic about buying the highest graded just to get more points. But I like having a set online that I can share with other people, and compare to other sets like mine. Some of them have great pictures, and great descriptions, and can be considered a valuable resource (both to waste time looking at them and for the information they give).

 

On the other hand, as I alluded to earlier, many are driven to buy the highest graded coin possible, even if it is butt ugly, or even worse worthless without the plastic shell. This in turn provides incentive to TPGs to overgrade, and it also makes MS70 modern widgets into expensive modern widgets, all for the sake of points. On this count, I agree with you.

 

On the whole, I think the registries are a good thing. Too much of a good thing, or a good thing abused, can make it into a bad thing. I love broccoli, and no one can argue that isn't good for you, but eating too much is going to make you sick.

 

I would be curious as to your reasoning and opinions on the matter. I know you like to stir the pot, but there must be some reasoning behind it.

I certainly agree about there being pros and cons. But I think at least some of the good - like collectors sharing their coins with one another - could be derived without official registry sets. Granted, it would be considerably more difficult and far less efficient, but it could still be done, to some extent.

 

But to me, at least, the negatives are huge. I see so many buyers (collectors, as well as investors) chasing the grading labels/holders, while often largely ignoring the coins.

 

If that weren't bad enough, huge price/value distortions are created in the marketplace. I predict that these distortions will prove to be financially disastrous to the holders of certain coins who have been gouged, either knowingly or unknowingly.

 

I also believe that grading by the third party graders is affected in some cases.

 

And I see far too many collectors becoming slaves to their registry sets. In some instances they don't even really enjoy or have freedom in their collecting any more, due to the rules/restrictions/parameters of the sets.

 

Admittedly, I do want to "stir the pot" on this subject, but the title of my thread was sincere, with respect to numerous collectors I have observed.

[gmarguli]

The registry just brings out the stupidity and ego in people. This stupidity and ego was always there, just we didn't get to see it so easily.

[pendragon1998]

But I think at least some of the good - like collectors sharing their coins with one another - could be derived without official registry sets. Granted, it would be considerably more difficult and far less efficient, but it could still be done, to some extent.

 

 

Signature sets.

[James_OldeTowne]

Registry sets are a terrific idea, in my opinion. It's when "registry mania" sets in that it gets out of hand. Paying for a "pop top" coin at a rate of 100x the cost of the next lower coin is ridiculous.

 

I alluded to the issue in the guest commentary for Coin World a couple of weeks ago.

[EZ_E]

I used to ridicule the registries and the bolstered egos that participated but I've changed my mind. The NGC registry serves as an excellent template for my type collection. I don't necessarily appreciate all of the Seated Liberty sub-varieties that are required but, apart from that, it suites my needs just fine.

 

The main reason I enjoy the registry is because it documents my collection and I can view it most any time even when the actual coins are locked away 200 miles away.

 

As mentioned, the registry serves as a template for my type collection. Now, I have a goal before me and I always perform best when I am working towards one.

 

Sure, it also gives the joy of competition which is in itself healthy. But all things should remain balanced and not given to the extremes like some of these modern (and classic) registries.

 

The coin is king not the slab! The secret of my success in assembling my type collection is not seeking to fill a certain slot but allowing the good coins to come to me. This is the way it usually works out 90% of the time anyway.

 

And, the registries allows others to share their coins with me.

 

It is an invaluable tool when used properly but, like all things, it has its flaws but that ain't my problem. :þ

[MarkFeld]

I used to ridicule the registries and the bolstered egos that participated but I've changed my mind. The NGC registry serves as an excellent template for my type collection. I don't necessarily appreciate all of the Seated Liberty sub-varieties that are required but, apart from that, it suites my needs just fine.

 

The main reason I enjoy the registry is because it documents my collection and I can view it most any time even when the actual coins are locked away 200 miles away.

 

As mentioned, the registry serves as a template for my type collection. Now, I have a goal before me and I always perform best when I am working towards one.

 

Sure, it also gives the joy of competition which is in itself healthy. But all things should remain balanced and not given to the extremes like some of these modern (and classic) registries.

 

The coin is king not the slab! The secret of my success in assembling my type collection is not seeking to fill a certain slot but allowing the good coins to come to me. This is the way it usually works out 90% of the time anyway.

 

And, the registries allows others to share their coins with me.

 

It is an invaluable tool when used properly but, like all things, it has its flaws but that ain't my problem. :þ

Victor, it was encouraging to read your personal take on the subject. Keep enjoying your collecting! (thumbs u

[TomB]

I have no problems with the Registry set idea. As with anything else, if one has the requisite intelligence and experience and uses it wisely then they will likely be able to be better protected while enjoying their hobby to a greater degree.

[pendragon1998]

Couldn't the some of the same arguments be made about coin albums? For example, I collect Lincoln Cents from 1909-present, business strikes only. I have a Dansco 7100. There is a slot for the (bloody) 1922-D plain coin, which I otherwise wouldn't be inclined to spend my money on. Now, because there's an empty slot, I feel a ridiculous feeling of not having completed the set until I can buy one of those coins...not that I'm done - I still have a dozen or so coins to go, but my point remains: I won't feel 'done' until I blow a chunk of change on that coin and jam it into the album.

[MarkFeld]

Couldn't the some of the same arguments be made about coin albums? For example, I collect Lincoln Cents from 1909-present, business strikes only. I have a Dansco 7100. There is a slot for the (bloody) 1922-D plain coin, which I otherwise wouldn't be inclined to spend my money on. Now, because there's an empty slot, I feel a ridiculous feeling of not having completed the set until I can buy one of those coins...not that I'm done - I still have a dozen or so coins to go, but my point remains: I won't feel 'done' until I blow a chunk of change on that coin and jam it into the album.

Well, one of the same arguments - yes. At least (hopefully) you don't "have" to buy it/them in any particular grade and subject yourself to pricing abuse.

 

 

[zrlevin]

I do not participate in the set registries. I think that they are a brilliant marketing ploy, but they are not for me. I do not like the rigidity nor the competition that these sets induce.

 

I like to build my sets with coins, raw or slabbed, that fit the general image of my set. This would not be possible if participating in the registry, unless I was willing to drop big bucks to get common, circulated Lincoln memorial cents etc. certified. Now a coin that cost me 1c and a 2x2 has cost me $20; money that I could never hope to recover.

 

I also do not like to keep my coins slabbed. Looking at a collection of slabbed coins is like looking at a museum collection. Why should I have to look at my own coins through plastic? All of my coins are in cardboard 2x2s, and if I want a good look at one, I just pop it out and re-holder it.

 

Conforming to the rules set forth by others in order to collect something that I enjoy is foolish. I would never complete a registry set, as I would never agree with the coins required to do so. To use Michael's example, I do not consider the 1922 plain Lincolns as part of that set, nor do I consider the three-legged buffalo as a deserving member of that particular date set. I would refuse to purchase these coins, and as a result, would never get the satisfaction of filling the set. Heck, I don't even use dansco albums anymore!

 

The competition in these sets is ridiculous as well. Who cares if a coin is MS69 or MS70? I cannot tell them apart. People spend huge wads of money on these plastic manufactured conditional rarities, when that money could be spent on real rarities. Also, how could someone like me ever compete with the type sets of Victor, Paul, Tom, and others? My collection would never achieve such a rank as theirs, even though I may have worked just as hard to build it.

 

I have my own registry over on Picasa, one that I can set the rules for!

[Oldtrader3]

I tend to be an accumulator with a lack of focus and too many sets going at once. The registry, initally in 2002 for me, was a trap because I built too many sets simultaneously that I could never finish (i.e. a MS Trime set, versus a MS half-eagle set). However later on, the registry gave me more discipline in my collecting because I started to focus on a few sets that I could collect for and make into a nice set, complete or not. This self discipline also made me much less interested in registry ranking and much more interested in building a nice set that I felt was an accomplishment for me, given my disposable income, regardless of other's registry sets.

 

I now have several sets that I like, that I may never complete, but who cares. I have fun finding and obtaining nice new specimens which I look forward to with much less set helter-skelter and accumulation desire.

[IGWT]

Please fire away, whether you agree or disagree.

Of course, registry sets are neither good nor bad. What you really mean to say is that some collectors are prone to bad decisions, and the registries are evidence of that fact.

[Doogy]

ahhh.....yes....the question for the ages

 

 

I too think Registry Sets were boons for the services, and they've made a killing on it. I have no problem with the principle of it, and also how 90% of the users (collectors) engage in it.

 

My beef is with the 'private' Registry sets. anyone else annoyed at registry sets that have won the top prize year after year that are not even able to be seen? I noticed the top set for the US type set (PCGS), and you cannot even click on the set, let alone see any pictures or grades. I think many would agree that Mr. Eliasberg had the most fascinating and best set of US coins of anyone to collect, and he was so humble with his collection that he allowed it to be printed it in a major magazine (LIFE, if i recall). I remember reading that after the magazine went to print, the publisher was flooded with questions about coin collecting, and how to get started.

 

I'm not saying the owners of these sets should give any info that may risk their security, but why is it that a person is allowed to take the top spot when others vying for the same award can't even see the grades of the coins they are competing against?

 

to me, it is all about TRANSPARENCY. If you're gonna' hold some competition with coveted top honors, you have to know what you're competing against!

 

 

The stage: the 2008 Beijing Olympics.

 

The runners line up at the starting line what is expected to be an impressive race. Most of them look nervous, as the reported fastest runner in the world is unknown to the field (both in name and having ever raced in formal competition), and hasn't shown up to the staging area yet. Just then, the President of the Olympic Committee comes over the loudspeaker to announce:

 

"the 100 meter men's final is not to be run, as we have privately witnessed the running of the world's fastest man, and will be awarding the medal in a private ceremony. thank you for coming out today."

 

 

I don't "get it", anyone else?

 

[Bruceswar]

BAD! That sums up most all of it. People get soo wrapped up in label chasing they forget about the coins inside the slabs. I for one have a few sets, in which I am not keeping track of nor have I taken coin photos or posted anything meaningfull about the coins. Without the registry no modern coin slabbing would be nessicary. Now there are people like Hoot who take the time to have photos up, write long descriptions etc etc. These people are buying the coins and not the holders. I look at some of the top sets in Washington Quarters and I am discusted by what I see. Some of the coins are truly yuk! On the other hand I enjoy my raw set of high grade quarters where I am not driven by plastic and inserts. Everybody who has seen my set has liked it alot and I must agree with them. After all I am a collector not a plastic chaser. Now justr because you created a registry set does not make you a plastic chaser, but we all know many people are just that. I like to call these people Sheep! The TPG's are the shepards and these people are blindly guided by that insert. For me it is not about numbers or plastic it is about EYE APPEAL. Ok rant over... Flame me..

[BillJones]

The main thing I like about my registry sets is that it gives me a chance to educate other collectors. With pictures and write-ups, I can tell a story about each piece in my collection. The only blue note is that I can't put the pictures of the raw coins I own that can't be certified. My type set would be short only one coin if I could do that.

 

I got caught up very briefly with the points and competition thing. But then I figured out pretty fast that there was no way I could compete with the top collections. I’ve have to start my collection, which has a labor of love for over 40 years, all over again. And I just don’t have the money to beat the top sets.

 

I also have problems with the point system itself. Most of my most expensive coins are the early pieces from the 1792 to 1807 era. Those coins get far fewer points than they deserve IMO. The guys at NGC admitted that at the last FUN luncheon, but they say that revising the point scales is too large a task.

 

As for the down side, I think that some high grade coins, especially in the modern series, are massively overpriced relative to their rarity because of distortions caused by the registry rat race. I think that some people will be sorry they paid what they have paid when reality steps in, which it will eventually.

 

[EZ_E]

Brewster, there's plenty of us that are exceptions to your post.

 

 

I used to ridicule the registries and the bolstered egos that participated but I've changed my mind. The NGC registry serves as an excellent template for my type collection. I don't necessarily appreciate all of the Seated Liberty sub-varieties that are required but, apart from that, it suites my needs just fine.

 

The main reason I enjoy the registry is because it documents my collection and I can view it most any time even when the actual coins are locked away 200 miles away.

 

As mentioned, the registry serves as a template for my type collection. Now, I have a goal before me and I always perform best when I am working towards one.

 

Sure, it also gives the joy of competition which is in itself healthy. But all things should remain balanced and not given to the extremes like some of these modern (and classic) registries.

 

The coin is king not the slab! The secret of my success in assembling my type collection is not seeking to fill a certain slot but allowing the good coins to come to me. This is the way it usually works out 90% of the time anyway.

 

And, the registries allows others to share their coins with me.

 

It is an invaluable tool when used properly but, like all things, it has its flaws but that ain't my problem. :þ

[cpm9ball]

Brewster, there's plenty of us that are exceptions to your post.

 

Who are you kidding? When they made you, they broke the mold so they wouldn't make the same mistake twice.

 

Chris

[DirtyGoldMan]

Mark,

 

I believe that registry sets are neither inherently good nor bad for the collector, but are undoubtedly very good for the TPGs that sponsor them and good for dealers who are good at marketing.

 

I do believe that they may bring out the worst in some collectors and sellers. I think that Greg said it best earlier.

 

RYK

[MikeKing]

Well, first, there's a big difference between the NGC registry and the PCGS registry.

 

The NGC registry allows you to go into the numismatics and history of your coins, state whatever you like for that matter, including your personal feelings about each particular coin. PCGS registry doesn't give ample room to do this.

 

I'd guess there's probably more 'mania', that de-stabilizing force you talk about, with the PCGS registry, by virtue of the fact that it doesn't allow for much more than just 'showing' your coins and their grades. It's also a venue for the 'koolaid' experience. But that's just my guess.

 

The NGC registry is more competitive, however. I assume part of that is due to the fact that they allow entry of coins from both of the two top tier grading companies. It could also be because it's the most 'exploratory', i.e., it allows much more depth to your sets and as such, more to learn from and explore. It's also more fun.

 

So it really depends on your own brain, Mark, and how you view things.

 

I don't know how we could figure out if the detriment of competitiveness and the role of price inflation as a result of that, actually puts a dent in the larger scope of enjoyment people get from both contributing to and browsing through the NGC registry. There's so much to learn in this hobby, and the registry is a great venue to do that from.

 

For many of us, and I suspect, most collectors, where one 'ranks' in the registry is of absolutely no importance.

 

edited to add:

 

In my mind, anyone who could put together a complete set of Capped Bust Halves in VF or EF with eye appeal, would have one of the MOST competitive sets in any registry, because something like that is much harder to achieve than buying your way into it. I think if more collectors saw it that way, it would enrich the NGC registry all the more.

[MarkFeld]

Mark,

 

I believe that registry sets are neither inherently good nor bad for the collector, but are undoubtedly very good for the TPGs that sponsor them and good for dealers who are good at marketing.

 

I do believe that they may bring out the worst in some collectors and sellers. I think that Greg said it best earlier.

 

RYK

Robert, that was well put and concise. You get the prize, with an assist from Greg, and perhaps another one from Lou, even if he did try to put words into my mouth.

 

Thanks for the replies, folks.