Postage/Insurance fees on ebay items...

[TheMightyDuke]

There is a coin you want on ebay...really really want (lets say you are willing to go to $75, and place a max bid of $75 to get this coin). According to the supplied images (for the sake of argument, they are great images) and descriptions, you have no problem with the item, and make a concerted effort to win this coin. The auction ends, and you get it for, lets say, $50...$25 less than your max bid was. You get the coin for a decent price and you are happy with the end result. Now, up front, before bidding (because you know you have to read the entire auction, because you are smarter than the average ebayer), you know the shipping is going to be, say, $5.50, and the seller makes insurance 'optional', at say, $2.00. Ok, no problem, as you got the coin for much less than you anticipated, so you pony up the $5.50, plus the $2.00, sending $50 for the coin, and $7.50 for shipping/handling and insurance. Realize that I know a shipping charge isnt just for postage, as padded mailers, markers, tape, etc isnt free (but then you have those sellers that want to include/make back the listing fee, wear/tear on the vehicle, and gas, to and fro the P.O...I think this part is BS, but...). Oh, lets say Paypal was used for payment.

 

Now, a week or so passes, and the mailman delivers you a package. You figure you know what it is, and cant wait to open the package. You want to see the coin and make sure you got the deal you thought you got. HOWEVER, even before you open the package, its in a NON padded mailer (basically, a regular envelope, or a manilla envelope the same size as, say, a '000' padded mailer, but not padded, in essence, just an envelope). You get worried about the condition of the coin inside. HOWEVER, you NOW notice the seller used 4 or 5 regular postage stamps, theres no 'First Class' stamp on the envelope anywhere, THEN you notice there is no delivery confirm, signature confirm, no INSURANCE tag, NOTHING to indicate that in reality, he could have just dropped it in a mail box (the alternative to this is there IS a metered postage stamp on it, but it's for only, say, $0.97. and STILL no kind of tracking number on the package at ALL. Whats a guy/girl to do? Sure, I know that if the package got to you, thats whats important...BUT, this kind of thing is happening more and more and more.....and you start adding up the $$ spent on non-existant insurance, pumped up postage, and you do realize it is adding up.....I know its not 'ethical' to say you never got it, asking for the tracking #....and you know you cant get one as there is no tracking # , but how the hell does one try to put a stop to this? Personally, right now, I have 6 received items, not ONE padded mailer, and a total of $14.50 in insurance fees (yep, not one has insurance #, del confrim#, nothing), and the shipping comes to a total of slightly over $41. Thats a total of just over $55.50. After adding the ACTUAL postage on the envelopes, and these are the actual postage charges- one actually had stamps on it ($0.89, $1.30, $1.47, $0.97, $0.97, and one with an 80 cent stamp and two 17 centers...for $1.14...) that totals $6.74 in postage, and STILL nothing insured, nothing trackable....total profit just to ship is $48.76!!!!!!!

 

I know this has been a huge rant, but unless someone can suggest another way of making these shippers be honest about it, besides filing claims, or getting into a peeing contest when you bring it up to the seller (and again, after that, SOMEONE is gonna get negged)...how can someone win (or just be treated fairly at the very least)????? When I ship, I ALWAYS use padded mailers, insurance tag and delivery confirm are ALWAYS on the package (unless its over $300, then I use registered), and what do I make, maybe a couple cents total, but I NEVER try to recoup listing fees, gas money, wear/tear, etc on inflated shipping, or charging for insurance that never gets placed on the item. Or, am I the only one this happens to (and I cant imagine for the life of me this doesnt happen to ANYONE else)?

[gmarguli]

I think you should be honest about it. If it arrived to you in good condition, then you got what you paid for and the shipping method was adequate. Not ideal, but adequate.

 

It is also possible that the sellers use a private insurance company. I do and while I put a note in the package to indicate this, nothing else about my shipment says it is insured.

 

And don't take this the wrong way, but I use Delivery Confirmation on all my packages I ship so that scumbags don't get the wrong idea and try to steal from me because they aren't happy with something. Since I started using DC I've had a lot less "questions" about packages.

[bsshog40]

Well under ebay's soon to be ludicris new rules, you can neg him and he can't neg you!

[harvey8542]

I ship every thing for free latley first class and if the buyer wants insurance then they can purchase it.This hopfully keeps every one happy. As for Ebay's nrw rules you are right Bobby what a JOKE

[Conder101]

As Greg said some people use private insurance, other people self-insure. Even if they collect for insurance there is no rule or law that says they have to pay for post office insurance and no other insurance method. You complain that you have paid out and they have made an extra $48 in profit. Why does it bother you so much that the post office didn't make money on your eBay purchases instead of the sellers? Now if something didn't arrive and the seller tried to get out of it after you paid for insurance then you would have reason to complain.

[gmarguli]

I ship every thing for free latley first class and if the buyer wants insurance then they can purchase it.This hopfully keeps every one happy.

 

One of the funniest comments I ever read was on the eBay forums were a seller was complaining about the eBay star system. The seller gave free shipping on all auctions and complained that they were down to 4.5 stars with regards to shipping costs.

[bsshog40]

That is funny Greg!

[harvey8542]

That's no joke mine is at 4.7 I think

[James_OldeTowne]

That is funny Greg!

No it isn't! I give free shipping, and ship fast to boot, and I don't have a 5 either!!

 

[carson city]

Don't sweat the small stuff-----it's all small stuff---Richard Carlson

[James_OldeTowne]

If you got the coin, and it arrived in like condition (as described), then you have no beef. You agreed to the exorbitant shipping charge. Your only option (prior to the new, improved idiotic eBay policies) is to leave a neutral feedback stating the shipping materials used were unacceptable.

 

That aside, I often don't use a padded envelope, and I self-insure. I also frequently don't use first-class. In some ten years of shipping items this way, I think at most three have ever been lost, and one has been damaged (an ANACS slab in a padded envelope, incidentally).

 

 

[CHABSENTIA]

As I mentioned earlier I have had this Problem. You read the Terms and see that the Seller charges $5.50. You agree to the $5.50 so if the Merchandise arrives in good shape so I don't see where you really have a complaint as you agreed to the $5.50 charge.

 

Where I had a problem was in the Terms where the Seller said he would provide a tracking number on request.The Seller also said that unless you buy Insurance that he will not be responsibe for it if it is lost in the Mail.

 

 

After 9 days I had heard nothing ot received no package even though I had paid through Pay Pal the next day. I sent him an E MAIL and asked for the tracking number which he had said he would do upon request.He said that it didn't have a tracking number as it was sent through the Post Office and only Fed Ex provided one. He then tells me that he mixed it up with another Batch and that it went out a few days ago. I again asked for the tracking number telling him that it would be on the Insurance receipt for which I paid extra. He avoids the question and tells me that I am accusing him of being dishonest and that my coin was sent out.

 

After paying $ 7.15 for Postage and Insurance my Package arrives with a $1.47 Postage Stamp. Now I don't care about the $5.50 as I had ageed to it. My problem is what would have happened if the Coin had been lost since there was no Insurance purchased?

 

I send an E Mail to the guy telling him I had received the Coin but what would have happnened if it had been lost since he did not purchase Insurance. His response was " what do you care. You got your Coin and if I receive any more Emails fromyou I will turn you into EBAY for harrassment and if you leave any Negative Feedback or Neutral with Complaints I will retaliate. This Guy had 100% positive feedback.

 

 

The Insurance part is my problem because nobody can file a claim and there is no way to track it.

[BULLY]

HOWEVER, you NOW notice the seller used 4 or 5 regular postage stamps, theres no 'First Class' stamp on the envelope anywhere, THEN you notice there is no delivery confirm, signature confirm, no INSURANCE tag, NOTHING to indicate that in reality, he could have just dropped it in a mail box (the alternative to this is there IS a metered postage stamp on it, but it's for only, say, $0.97. and STILL no kind of tracking number on the package at ALL. Whats a guy/girl to do? Sure, I know that if the package got to you, thats whats important...BUT, this kind of thing is happening more and more and more.....and you start adding up the $$ spent on non-existant insurance, pumped up postage, and you do realize it is adding up.....I know its not 'ethical' to say you never got it, asking for the tracking #....and you know you cant get one as there is no tracking # , but how the hell does one try to put a stop to this?

 

I've actually contacted sellers about this issue, with mixed results. One seller responded, and fairly admitted he was cutting corners on "low cost" items. While he was pleased that I got the the coin, he also agreed to refund the additional amount I paid for insurance, and apologized. Since he was forthright and didn't argue, and issued a prompt refund via PayPal, I left him positive feedback anyway, using the detailed part of the feedback to put a "one star" (the lowest rating) about HIGH SHIPPING CHARGES. For those who have read eBay's NEW feedback system, apparently those are going to start affecting how seller listings will appear in searches for items. That said, I know it was still wrong, but again, he owned up to it.

 

I've also contacted sellers who claimed they had private insurance, and thus that was the reason they didn't use postal insurance. Well, if you already HAVE private insurance, why are you charging for postal insurance? Are you trying to recoup your annual premiums? I thought the answer was bogus, but how can I disprove it. A perfect example if where I was afraid to leave negative or more accurately NEUTRAL feedback for fear of retaliatory feedback from the seller.

[BULLY]

I send an E Mail to the guy telling him I had received the Coin but what would have happnened if it had been lost since he did not purchase Insurance. His response was " what do you care. You got your Coin and if I receive any more Emails fromyou I will turn you into EBAY for harrassment and if you leave any Negative Feedback or Neutral with Complaints I will retaliate. This Guy had 100% positive feedback.

 

The Insurance part is my problem because nobody can file a claim and there is no way to track it.

 

 

Now, if eBay lives up to part of its new policy, such threats of retaliatory feedback would be taken very seriously. They refer to it in their new policy about threats of negative feedback from buyers against sellers, but what about currently such threats from sellers against buyers? Under the new rules, sellers can't leave a buyer negative feedback, which, I suppose, is freeing in some ways. At the same time, it ties yours hands to leave feedback about people who are truly difficult to deal with.

 

No wonder this guy had 100% positive feedback, anyone who might leave a negative was SCARED to do so and made it positive anyway, if only to say they received the item!

[TomB]

The larger issue to me would be getting the coin in an undamaged manner, which it appears this is what you received. True, the shipping charges might have been more than needed and the shipper may have pocketed the difference, but if this bothers you there are still two ways to approach the issue. One is to contact the shipper and tell them you believe they might have misled you on the terms of shipping and to ask for a partial rebate while the other is to use the ebay star system and/or feedback system to lower the seller's feedback and warn others.

[CHABSENTIA]

The problem is that as I mentioned earlier I have had problems with E Bay adhering to their Policies. In this case I would have been left with Negative feedback and E Bay doing nothing. If he had even responded with : I would have made it good " etc then I would have probably given him another chance if I saw something I needed and got a good deal.

 

 

The other day I was looking at a coin and thought it was a good deal but checked and the Seller charged $15.00 for Postage which was ridiclous given the Price. I passed. In most cases the Seller applies the Insurance if paid. I bought $250.00 worth of Coins the other day from one of the few Sellers I now deal with on EBAY. He charged me $3.00 for Postage for three coins a few dollars for Insurance. I paid both. Obviuosly they weren't shipped Priority Mail but I know they will be Insured and I always have to sign for them.

 

 

 

I have had others ship by Priority Mail and some have cahrged extra for Insurance and some not and say it is included in the Postage. One even states that he will help you file for Insurance if you pay it and the Coin is lost.

 

I don't mind if in the Sellers terms he charges such and such for Postage. If I bid on the coin I expect to pay it. If I pay for Insurance I don't want to worry what will happen if the Coin is lost and it hasn't been paid.

 

 

 

[Houston Investor]

I don't think its really your business what it really cost the seller to ship you the item. Unless your a dummy that does not fully read the auction terms, you agreed when you bid on the item what you would pay for shipping and insurance. If your satisfied with the coin, I don't think you have anything to complain about.

 

Its up to you to take responsibility to decide what your willing to disburse for the total cost of the item before you bid.

 

Yes, now under ebay's absurd new feedback policy, some nit wit can neg a seller because he did not like the seller's cost of shipping without the seller having the option of being able to neg the buyer in return.

[CHABSENTIA]

Again in my situation I always look at the total cost such as the Buyers premium on Teletrade etc. As I mentioned earlier I passed on a Seller where the Bid seemed a good deal until the Terms mentioned a $15.00 Shipping fee.

 

 

I passed on the $15.00 and forgot about it. If a Seller states that Postage is $8.00 and I pay it and the Seller also says that they will not be responsible for items lost in the mail and one needs to pay another $ 1.65 for Insurance I don't care if the Seller only applies $1.50 of that $ 8.00 to postage. I agreed on the $8.00

 

I think that I have a right to know how I will receive a refund if the item is lost and the Seller has not purchased the Insurance.. I would think that only a Dummy wouldn't care.

[Conder101]

If a Seller states that Postage is $8.00 and I pay it and the Seller also says that they will not be responsible for items lost in the mail and one needs to pay another $ 1.65 for Insurance I don't care if the Seller only applies $1.50 of that $ 8.00 to postage. I agreed on the $8.00

If it says in the terms of the auction that they aren't responsible if you don't buy the insurance for the extra $1.65 then the $8 is just for postage and you have little to complain about if it gets lost and you aren't reimbursed. You agreed to the $8 and you declined insurance. (Yes I know that under normal rules the seller is obligated to make sure the item arrives, but by bidding you also agreed to hold him blameless if you didn't buy the insurance. It was in the terms that you agreed to by bidding.)

[okbustchaser]

Disclaimer: I have never sold an item on Ebay. I am not now, nor have I ever been an insurance professional. That said:

 

Just because a seller charged you X amount for insurance DOES NOT mean that he must purchase said insurance from the Post Office.

 

He very well may be 3rd party insured in which case he has every right to pass on that expense to his customers--just like ANY OTHER BUSINESS does!

 

He may self-insure. In this case the money you paid is added to the money paid over time by everyone else so that he can replace a purchase which is lost or damaged.

 

Personally, I wish more sellers would self-insure on smaller amounts. I think the PO gets more than enough of my money just on postage.

[CHABSENTIA]

The last line of my post states that "if I pay the extra money for the Insurance and the Seller does not purchase the Insurance and the item gets lost then I think I have the right to know how the Seller will make it good.

 

 

In this case I used $1.65 as that was the cost I paid and the Seller did not purchase the Insurance. Again my post states that if the Seller stated $8.00 for Postage and only spent $1.47 out of the $8.00 I have no problem.

 

 

There are some sellers that state that they do not offer Insurance. It is up to the Buyer to roll the dice. Some say that they are not responsible for items lost in the mail if the Buyer refuses Insurance. If you refuse it in this case then again you roll the Dice.

 

 

Again my problem is when you pay the extra fee for the Insurance and the Seller does not purchase the Insurance. What happens if the item is then lost in the Mail and you have paid the extra fee for the Insurance..Then the Seller is rolling the Dice..

 

In about 10 posts I stated that I paid the Postage AND the extra Insurance fee. The Seller did not purchase the Insurance. and only used $1.47 of the $8.00 for Postage. I don't care that he only used $1.47 out of the $8.00 as when I bid I accepted it would be $8.00

 

The point is that I spent $8.00 + 1.65 for Insurance and the Insurance was not purchased. Whe n I asked the Seller what would have happnened if the article had been lost and there was no Insurance purchased then what would have been his action.

 

 

His response was " What do you care. You got your Coin".

[CHABSENTIA]

I understand that theory. I understand that people Self Insure in many cases including outside of EBAY.

 

 

There are about 4 people I will deal with on EBAY. One states that Insurance is ------ and that if the item is lost that he will help me file for Insurance etc. I don't care whether he buys Insurance from the Post offfice or is self assured.

 

 

Some state that they do not offer Insurance and some quote a Price for Postage and state that Insurance is included in the Price of the Postage.

 

I feel that if a Seller states that if the item is lost if the Buyer does not purchase Insurance and you pay the extra fee for Insurance that the Seller should stipulate what they will do in the case of loss if you pay it.In this case the Seller also said that they would furnish the tracking number upon request.

 

 

When I had not received the Item after 10 days I asked for the Tracking number and the Seller informed me that He sent it through the Post Office and the Post office did not offer tracking numbers.

 

 

 

[Houston Investor]

 

I

I think that I have a right to know how I will receive a refund if the item is lost and the Seller has not purchased the Insurance.. I would think that only a Dummy wouldn't care.

 

Have you heard of paypal? I do not buy from people who don't use paypal.....

 

If you pay with paypal and the item is lost you can file a claim. If the seller can't prove they shipped it and you received it via tracking then paypal will rule in your favor. A seller who does not purchase tracking info risks a phony claim by the buyer and a forced refund via paypal. For items over $250 the seller should also purchase a return receipt (green form) to further protect themselves from phony claims.

 

I have had two instances where I paid with paypal, I did not receive the item, and there was no insurance. I filed with paypal and paypal opened a dispute - when the seller did not respond I was given a refund thru paypal. One seller was sort of taken back by the incident, I think it surprised him. I was ready to neg him had there been any hassle from him. The other one, even though paypal issued me a refund, I went ahead and negged anyway.

[Conder101]

The last line of my post states that "if I pay the extra money for the Insurance and the Seller does not purchase the Insurance and the item gets lost then I think I have the right to know how the Seller will make it good.

Yep, if the item gets lost you do have a right to know how the seller will make it good. Your item didn't get lost so I guess the seller doesn't have to say how he WOULD have made it good.

[CHABSENTIA]

Gee let me see.

 

1.. I pay the next day by Pay Pal

2. After nine days I do not receive the item although all the rest of my Purchases to date through Pay Pal have notified me.

3. I E Mail the Seller and he tells me he just shipped it that morning as it got mixed in with another Batch of Coins that were due to go out that morning.

4. The Seller then informs me that he has up to ten days after receiving my payment through Pay Pal to ship the Item. I then ask him what is the advantage of paying immediately through Pay Pal other than sending a check and waiting ten days and also the fact that according to E Bay Policy I am able to file after 10 days for not receiving the Item . He told me I am wrong.

5. I ask him at that point for a tracking number which in his '"Terms" he agreed to supply on request. He then tells me that he sent it through the Post Office and the Post office does not supply tracking numbers. This is not only nonsense but any other Seller I have talked to tells me that for a few cents they purchase a confirmation so that there are no problems. Also if he had purchased Insurance he would have had a tracking number on the receipt.

6. Then he tells me if I leave Negative Feedback as to the Above or notify E BAY that he did not purchase the Inurance that he will retaliate against me.

 

 

And this is the Seller that is going to make it right if the item was lost.

 

So let me get this straight. With this type of possible behavior you would buy a Coin for say $500.00 on EBAY then pay for Insurance in case the item got lost and then you roll the dice and if you do not receive the coin after 2 weeks you contact the Seller and ask about the Insurance you paid for and maybe the Seller will make it good or maybe he won't.

 

 

Amazing! So I can pay for Insurance but don't have a right to know if it will be covered in the event the Item is lost .This is exactly the type of attitude that is causing the Fees to be raised on EBAY.

 

 

 

 

 

[BULLY]

Well, eBay's new policy says that THEY will protect SELLERS from threats of retaliatory feedback. If a buyer gets a threat of retaliatory feedback before the new policy is fully implemented, I don't see why that should not also be reported to eBay, and why eBay should not be made to take it just as seriously.

 

 

[gmarguli]

Well, eBay's new policy says that THEY will protect SELLERS from threats of retaliatory feedback.

 

eBay also said that they will also be lowering fees to help sellers. We saw how well that worked out.

[BULLY]

Well, eBay's new policy says that THEY will protect SELLERS from threats of retaliatory feedback.

 

eBay also said that they will also be lowering fees to help sellers. We saw how well that worked out.

 

 

Well, notice that I said what they claim the policy will be and what I think the policy should MAKE eBay DO! eBay is notorious, in my experience, for not following through on lots of things, even simple technical support requests that linger for months.

 

Pathetic.

 

 

[TheMightyDuke]

While I am not familiar with how 3rd party insuring works, self insuring is risky at best. At the very least, Paypal requires Delivery Confirmation (I believe I am 100% correct there, but if not, someone correct me please). That is a tracking device that can be used. If you print a shipping slip from Paypal, I do believe that service is free. If you go to the PO, you get a computer generated postage label from the PO. Anything less than $2.00 on a First class package, you KNOW nothing but postage was paid. If you see regular STAMPS on an ENVELOPE, well, you know this is someone you wont do business with again. If you are in the PO, what the hell does it take to fill out at LEAST a delivery confirm tag? You are in there anyway, is 30 seconds and what, $0.85 too much to have SOME peace of mind? Anyone that ships, and doesnt use Del Confirm, Sig Confirm, Insurance is crazy. If you have no way to track an item (simply supplying the receipt you get for the transaction wont help), as a seller, you will get boned every time if Paypal is used (this is why I only bid on items where sellers accept Paypal).

 

One more thing....all hypothetical......say you have 100 transactions, doesnt matter if its with the same seller or not. you pay $6.00 flat for each transaction, yet you see $0.97 postage (I will use my $0.97 example, just for kix) 100 times. Thats $503 of MY money that the seller did NOT use to ensure a controlled environment in shipping, that I could have used to purchase more coins, (and remember, I am NOT against someone charging $6, and seeing a $3.50 shipping charge with a sig confirm, del confirm or insurance tag...I know that money will be made on shipping charges, but DONT rape me of every possible cent you can...). I dont expect to have every single penny of my shipping/insurance costs to be disclosed, and making a couple $2-$3 IS ok in my book, but when someone collects my money for an item, I at LEAST expect that item will be shipped promptly, packaged securely, and be trackable. Is that too tall of an order to fill???

[World Colonial]

As a buyer, I do not normally buy from anyone who does not take Paypal. This is not just because I can file a claim but also because I do not usually want the item bad enough to bother with mailing a check. On more expensive items, I will not bid on an item unless they accept Paypal unless I know that seller.

 

As a seller, I have sold mostly to buyers outside the United States and the reliability of the postal systems can be a problem. I never had a problem with about 100 shipments but then the last two to South Africa BOTH were lost, or more likely, were stolen even though I used Global Express Mail. This was four months ago and I just finally filed the insurance claims because the buyer took about six weeks to tell me they never got it and then the USPS took ten weeks to finally send me the forms. And though I have no reason to doubt I will ultimately get reimbursed, if I do not, then I will be out $400.

 

The next time I ship outside the US, I believe I will try private insurance. (I have the ANA insurance but do not want to file a claim under it even if I can. In the overall scheme of things, its nickels and dimes and I do not want to file a claim against it unless the amount is large enough.) I've DSI before but never had to file a claim.

 

I'm not sure what other sellers do, but I went ahead and refunded the money to them even though my claim has yet to be paid. As a buyer, if I buy insurance, I expect to be reimbursed regardless of whether the seller can get reimbursed or not and I would not expect to wait four months to get my money. And since I did not say anything about this in my listing, I considered myself obligated to refund the money upfront. I have heard of instances from others where the buyer will do nothing to help file the claim and the sellers gets shafted. If this continues to be a problem, I'll have to consider changing my list description.