Anacs=ICG=boy am I confused....and PayPal shipping

[RI AL]

The search through 50 years of accumulating foreign stuff has revealed a few better pieces, and I am thinking about taking ICG up on their buy 5 get 5 free offer I saw in Coin World. I have no problem with either ANACS or ICG.This stuff isn't "precious" by any means but worth risking entombment in a plastic coffin for future sale.

 

Can someone explain to me the ANACS ICG thing? Is ANACS a gonner? Is ICG up and running or will my submission to ICG, if I send it, wind up in Botwana?

 

By the way, I learned an interesting little tidbit from the P.O. the other day and was wondering how it might impact PayPal pre-paid shipping. Friends of my wife and me (myself??) are "snow birds" now and she bemoans the fact that she doesn't get coupons in her Sunday paper. SO...being the guy that I am, I have been collecting the flyers for her and accumulated about 1 1/2 pounds worth. I weighed them, slapped the postage on them and popped them in my mailbox bound for the wimps in Florida. Next day they reappeared in my mail box with a bright green sticker saying that because of regulations by Homeland Security, envelopes in excess of 1 pound can not be mailed from home but have to be brought in person to the P.O. Well, I am certainly happy to oblige but is this widely known and doesn't it put pre-paid shipping (as in PayPal) in jeopardy? Has anyone else run into this?

 

Have the best of all possible evenings.

 

RI AL

[ibyandsellsmith]

I talked to Anacs at the fun show and according to them, they just have a new owner.

[PerryHall]

I talked to Anacs at the fun show and according to them, they just have a new owner.

Not true. The staff at ANACS were laid off and many ICG employees were hired to replace them. ICG then hired several of the former ANACS employees. Sorta like musical chairs.

[gmarguli]

ANACS: New owner who had worked for both ICG & ANACS in the past. Fired all the graders and support staff. Moved the company. Hired practically all the ICG graders and support staff away from ICG.

 

ICG: New owner who came to work one morning to find out that he was abandoned by practically all the ICG graders and support staff. Quickly hired some ex-ANACS graders and support staff.

 

As far as I know, both companies are processing submissions practically as normal. Right now ICG is not grading everything they used to. They need to retain some new experts. ANACS is also not grading everything ICG used to in the past, but supposedly will start in the coming months.

 

As for postal regulations, the 1lb rule only applies to postage that is not traceable. PayPal shipping and online postage purchases are traceable and can be shipped from your home.

[sro114-migration]

My understanding is that two of the members of the ICG staff purchased ANACS. They then hired a good portion of the ICG staff to come with them to ANACS. They have hired some of the original staff of ANACS, but I haven't heard what percentage. ICG is pursuing legal recourse due to employment contracts (i.e. covenants not to compete) that may or may not have existed or applied.

 

I believe this legal battle will definately have impact upon both companies. How much is uncertain.

 

I know from an inside source that this move was not done respectfully or professionaly and I for one have no desire to deal with the new owners of ANACS if this is how their ethics are.

 

Anyway, this is my two bits and I know it's worth about that much.

[physics-fan3.14]

I know from an inside source that this move was not done respectfully or professionaly and I for one have no desire to deal with the new owners of ANACS if this is how their ethics are.

 

I agree. It seems like ANACS might have just shot themselves in the foot and moved from third to fourth (or lower). If ICG manages this properly, they have a good chance of claiming Third Place TPG.

[DC Dawg]

By the way, I learned an interesting little tidbit from the P.O. the other day and was wondering how it might impact PayPal pre-paid shipping. Friends of my wife and me (myself??) are "snow birds" now and she bemoans the fact that she doesn't get coupons in her Sunday paper. SO...being the guy that I am, I have been collecting the flyers for her and accumulated about 1 1/2 pounds worth. I weighed them, slapped the postage on them and popped them in my mailbox bound for the wimps in Florida. Next day they reappeared in my mail box with a bright green sticker saying that because of regulations by Homeland Security, envelopes in excess of 1 pound can not be mailed from home but have to be brought in person to the P.O. Well, I am certainly happy to oblige but is this widely known and doesn't it put pre-paid shipping (as in PayPal) in jeopardy? Has anyone else run into this?

Sorry Al, this is old news. This has been the policy since last year. Here are two links I think will help you understand the Postal Service's policies:

• Items Eligible for carrier pickup
• What can be deposited in Collection Boxes
  

If the links fail, then use the phrases to search for the information on the Postal Service's website.

 

Scott

[Zoins]

My understanding is that ANACS is the new ICG in that they have the HSN contract now. We can probably expect new ANACS ultra-moderns to be graded similar to the old ICG.

[Conder101]

The one pound rule went into place several years ago (originally it was 2 pounds then 1 pound I believe it began around the time the Unibomber started mailing bombs again in the 1993 to 95 era.) and more recently it was reduced to 13 oz.

[ant]

so is anacs still anacs or did everything and every1 change from it? i just joined them and if they are not "anacs" then i dont wana go with them. the sellability of icg is not where i need it to be. and if anacs is icg now, how long untill they are totaly trusted again? im still a lil confused .

[John Maben]

A few people might not like this comment but I really don't care. Others will get it. In a world where NGC and PCGS exist, have credibility, and dominate the market, why on earth, would anybody even be considering any other service? In my opinion, it's crazy. Price??? C'mon! Pay a few bucks more, it's well worth it. The ONLY situation where I could see using a second tier service is if the first tier did not grade the particular coin or variety. Even then, I personally would rather have the coin raw. This is my opinion.

John

[gmarguli]

A few people might not like this comment but I really don't care. Others will get it. In a world where NGC and PCGS exist, have credibility, and dominate the market, why on earth, would anybody even be considering any other service? In my opinion, it's crazy. Price??? C'mon! Pay a few bucks more, it's well worth it. The ONLY situation where I could see using a second tier service is if the first tier did not grade the particular coin or variety. Even then, I personally would rather have the coin raw. This is my opinion.

John

 

Because:

 

1) If the coin turns out to have some sort of problem that I didn't see, ANACS will still holder it and ICG will only charge me $5 rather than keep all the submission fees.

 

2) I don't have to pay to join a club to submit my coins. PCGS and NGC want $100 a year in order to do business with them.

 

3) I can get my coins back in 5-7 days with ANACS & ICG. PCGS & NGC take months.

 

4) Buy the coin not the holder. That's what most people say. Now you're telling me to submit to only two services, but it's the same coin regardless of what holder I put it in!

 

5) Different services grade coins differently. I may get a point bump.

 

6) I can sell more of the same coin if I have them in different holders. Sounds funny, but if I have 200 X in NGC plastic, I may only be able to sell 10 a week. However, if I have 50 X in each of NGC, PCGS, ANACS, and ICG plastic, I can sell 40 a week. Sounds wrong, but it is true.

 

7) These coins are for my collection and I like the XYZ holder the best.

 

8) ANACS & ICG run specials and the cost of grading can be half that of PCGS & NGC. It might be worth it even if the coin retails for a few dollars less.

 

9) Because I can get some problem coins into their slabs as problem free while I could not do the same at PCGS / NGC.

 

At least that is what I'd assume people would give for reasons. Personally, I will use ANACS & ICG for a couple of the reasons listed above. I find it to be a beneficial business model.

 

As for preferring a coin raw over ANACS / ICG slabbed, you may, but the market clearly doesn't.

[John Maben]

Yes, buy the coin. Just don't submit the coin to anyone other than NGC or PCGS. From a business point of view, I don't sell anything other than these two because I don't want to confuse my customers or make any implication whatsoever that they are on par with NGC and PCGS.... before I was doing modern, I dumped many a classic problem coin raw in auction or to other dealers at losses rather than get it in any old slab and hope to find a sucker. Not suggesting that is what you are doing...

[Keigwin]

I'm with John, having been burned by all the other TPG's except NGC and PCGS. Most recently NGC returned a lovely, toned liberty seated half dollar in an ANACS slab, refusing the crossover because of "questionable toning".

 

NGC and PCGS coins consistently draw the best auction prices. Items #1, 5 and 9 above are why I never pay FMV for a non-NGC/PCGS holdered coin without the nod from a reputable dealer I trust.

 

Sure, buy the coin not the holder but when buying over the internet the label carries a lot of weight.

 

Lance.

[CHABSENTIA]

This is true in a lot of cases but I will refer to a recent article in Coin World NGC will only list the VAMS doe the Hot 50 and Top 100 concerning Morgans.

 

Recently Coin World did an article about a certain VAM that is on the 1878

7 TF Rev of 79. This coin in AU is about $45.00. With this VAM in AU it is

about $950.00.

 

If you had this coin and NGC would only list it without the VAM then would you leave it that way or would you send it to ANACS?

 

Same thing with any other VAM that is not a Hot 50 or top 100 that significantly increases the Premium or other similar situation.

[CHABSENTIA]

The $99.00 is not really a big deal. You are given a free coupon for the grading of 5 coins. If you graded the same 5 coins in the Economy Tier then it would cost you $80.00 so the actual Membership is $19.00 a year.

 

As a Member you can check Numismedia Grades above MS62 and PF62. You have to be a paid member to check the Progress of your Order online.

 

 

I have bought 4 NGC Storage Boxes from NGC at $5.99 each. The cheapest I have seen them anyplace is $9,99 so I have saved $16.00 there and may buy more.You have to be a paid member to get this Price.

 

 

Considering everything my Membership so far has cost me $3.00 with several advantages,

 

 

 

[gmarguli]

I agree that the cost of membership can be a wash many times. I was just listing reasons I expect people to give. ANACS & ICG both grade a significant amount of coins every month. There must be legitimate reasons why.

[John Maben]

"ANACS & ICG both grade a significant amount of coins every month. There must be legitimate reasons why."

 

I am not deliberately trying to be on the other side of you Greg but......

 

Not really, and I think "a demand does exist" would better describe why they get any coins at all.

 

My best guess, and only a guess (but at least based on what I see, hear, and 30 years in this business) OCT-NOV-DEC '07 average:

 

NGC & PCGS combined 250,000 avg per month

 

Not sure how it would break down but I believe PCGS has been trailing NGC for a long time.

 

All others (this does not include self-graders) combined total: 35,000 avg per month.

 

"Graded" coins is defined as put in a holder, for which revenue was received, and do not include rejected for the minimum grade coins, simply because they were reviewed.

 

Now, if you take away from "all others" the modern coins that are going directly to marketers (television etc), in my opinion, they become a complete and total non-factor.

 

Yes, NGC and PCGS grade many modern coins that are intended for mass marketers also, but vintage is still their core grading business.

 

John

[e1cnr]

Greg,

 

your post above is by far the best reasons I have seen for using ICG or ANACS

 

I just hope that JT hasn't ruined the credibility of both companies to the point of no return as legitimate third party grading operations

 

If they don't start sending out coins they have had for the last couple months, many submitters will be leary of sending them anymore - which will negatively affect their bottom line

 

the HSN deal can only last as long as it takes buyers to realize that they are big-time upside down on their purchases and they have difficulty selling what they have acquired

 

the bubble will eventually burst (maybe sooner than later)

[physics-fan3.14]

A few people might not like this comment but I really don't care. Others will get it. In a world where NGC and PCGS exist, have credibility, and dominate the market, why on earth, would anybody even be considering any other service? In my opinion, it's crazy. Price??? C'mon! Pay a few bucks more, it's well worth it. The ONLY situation where I could see using a second tier service is if the first tier did not grade the particular coin or variety. Even then, I personally would rather have the coin raw. This is my opinion.

John

 

Because:

 

1) If the coin turns out to have some sort of problem that I didn't see, ANACS will still holder it and ICG will only charge me $5 rather than keep all the submission fees.

 

2) I don't have to pay to join a club to submit my coins. PCGS and NGC want $100 a year in order to do business with them.

 

3) I can get my coins back in 5-7 days with ANACS & ICG. PCGS & NGC take months.

 

4) Buy the coin not the holder. That's what most people say. Now you're telling me to submit to only two services, but it's the same coin regardless of what holder I put it in!

 

5) Different services grade coins differently. I may get a point bump.

 

6) I can sell more of the same coin if I have them in different holders. Sounds funny, but if I have 200 X in NGC plastic, I may only be able to sell 10 a week. However, if I have 50 X in each of NGC, PCGS, ANACS, and ICG plastic, I can sell 40 a week. Sounds wrong, but it is true.

 

7) These coins are for my collection and I like the XYZ holder the best.

 

8) ANACS & ICG run specials and the cost of grading can be half that of PCGS & NGC. It might be worth it even if the coin retails for a few dollars less.

 

9) Because I can get some problem coins into their slabs as problem free while I could not do the same at PCGS / NGC.

 

At least that is what I'd assume people would give for reasons. Personally, I will use ANACS & ICG for a couple of the reasons listed above. I find it to be a beneficial business model.

 

As for preferring a coin raw over ANACS / ICG slabbed, you may, but the market clearly doesn't.

 

To those I would add:

 

10) Historically, ANACS has had experts in varieties, and will label far more varieties than any other service. If this is something I collect, I would immediately go with them.

 

11) ICG had a reputation for slabbing an extremely wide variety of items. A while back one of the board members did an experiment (with hilarious results) to see just how far ICG would go. They stopped at a wooden nickel.

 

12) ICG also had a reputation for ancient coins, and you don't see very many ancients in PCGS or NGC holders.

 

But with everyone switching everything around, all these reasons might be out the door. With the screwy practices of ANACS, I've pretty much ruled out buying any of their stuff. But if ICG can pull it off, I would definitely consider using them.

[Conder101]

I'm with John, having been burned by all the other TPG's except NGC and PCGS.Most recently NGC returned a lovely, toned liberty seated half dollar in an ANACS slab, refusing the crossover because of "questionable toning".

That sounds like a potential NGC burn to me. Unless you are of the opinion that NGC gets it right 100% of the time and absolutely NEVER makes an error. Especially since we know that frequently coins that get refused DO sometimes cross or get graded if resubmitted.

[BULLY]

Does anyone consider older ANACS holders to be more reliable than current ones? I mean I've seen older ANACS holders that clearly label problem coins, much like NCS does, which indicates to me a degree of credibility.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am still a fan of NGC when I submit coins myself, and when purchasing coins, I stick to NGC and PCGS about 99% of the time.

 

However, when I can get some deals on some coins that are in ICG or ANACS holders -- say a 1/10th oz Gold American Eagle for $80 (literally LESS THAN melt value) graded MS69 -- what's not to love about that? It's better than RAW because at least you have confidence in its authenticity, and as a modern coin, the chances of it being damaged by PVC or artificially toned or facing other issues of older collectible coins are highly unlikely. Meanwhile, you get a certified piece of BULLION that is PRESERVED for years to come.

 

Same with some Silver Eagles from ANACS -- MS69 -- if you can get them in the $16-$20 range, isn't that quite the deal with reasonable confidence that they are what they are, with some discretion on grade, compared to NGC/PCGS granted, but for the bullion at the price these days, my vote is: GRAB IT WHILE THE GETTIN IS GOOD!

 

 

[John Maben]

I think NCS fills the void for problem coins. They will call it simply genuine, or that and describe the problems with a details grade, all with the security of knowing this is a sisiter company to NGC. I know I sound like an advertisement but I haven't worked in the grading business for almost 4 years now so I do not believe I am biased and I just truly believe NGC and PCGS are all anyone would ever need. For me, NGC gets the lion's share.