FUN 2008: Chapter 1 - Late Start on Friday

[cpm9ball]

I planned to leave Cape Coral so that I could arrive at the convention center about 8:30am. Unexpectedly, I had to take care of some bank business for the store before I could leave, so I didn't get there until 11:30am. I guess I was fortunate because an Orange County Sheriff's Deputy told me there had been a 70-car pile-up due to heavy fog, and it closed I-4 for much of the rush-hour period.

 

The drawback to arriving so late was that the parking lot was completely full. It can accommodate a couple thousand cars, and the overflow must park in the fields on the outskirts of the lot. It would have been about a half-mile walk to the building had it not been for some enterprising young folks who came up with the idea of providing transportation using "bicycle taxis". They were just working for tips and not charging a fee, and it sure beat trying to pull along a heavy case on wheels through the grass.

 

If you've never been to the Orange County Convention Center, it is a huge complex comprised of several buildings, the largest of which are the North and South Halls. They are both about a quarter-mile long and are three, 20'+ stories high. The public entrances are on the 2nd floor, so you must either take an elevator or walk up a very long flight of steps. It is here where FUN has their registration desk and there are also 8 meeting rooms and the auction viewing rooms. After registration, you must proceed to the escalators or elevators to go back down to ground level where the bourse is located. As I made my way down the escalator to the bourse, I could see through the large windows over the doorways that the floor was packed and uniformed and plainclothes deputies were everywhere providing security.

 

My first order of business was to go to the NGC desk because I had one unattributed Top 100 VAM to submit for designation and a couple of bodybags that I needed someone to explain to me. As always, David Lange was very helpful, and I will be resubmitting the BB's.

 

My next order of business was to go to the Stack's table. You may remember the photo that I posted, here, of the copy of the Presidential Seal, and I wanted to know if they might be interested in putting it in one of their auctions. I guess it was just dumb luck, but the first person I approached at the Stack's table turned out to be Christine Karstedt who is the President of Stack's. When I showed her the photograph of the seal, I could see the excitement in her eyes. She called the New York office immediately, and they want to put it in the Money Show in Baltimore in July(?) So, I will be taking a drive to the Stack's office in Ft. Lauderdale sometime in April to deliver the Presidential Seal. Sorry! I just don't trust ANY shipping company not to drop it or damage it in some way.

 

I spent the rest of Friday trying to accomplish as much as I could of what I had planned for my agenda. I stopped by Greg Allen's table to say "Hi!" to Ron Sirna and ask his opinion of a toned Morgan that was recently BB'ed. I made my way to the Paris Mint's table to try to obtain some information about the mintmarks that were used prior to 1845. Unfortunatley, Talisman, who is their distributor in the U.S. was apologetic, but could not offer any help. I was able to take a few photographs, but finally had to give up because it was so crowded that I had too many "back-of-the-head shots" from people walking by just as I snapped the pictures.

 

On my way to the SSDC's VAM meeting, I bumped into J.T. Stanton who was heading there, too. He is looking very fit, and his spirits seem greatly improved. It was a noticeable difference considering the turmoil he has gone through the last few years. We made plans to have dinner together that evening and shoot some pool afterwards. At the SSDC meeting, I was able to get the 2008 copy of VAMView and two CD's. One is an attribution guide for the "Top 100" VAM's and the other is an attribution guide for the "Hot 50". For those of you who don't know, the VAMView is a price guide compiled from the most recent, actual sales of properly identified and encapsulated coins. Out of curiosity, I made a quick check of the 1885-CC, VAM4 because I had submitted one earlier to PCGS for reholder under designation reveiw. Wow! In MS65, it has increased 50% over the 2007 price of $2500. (thumbs u

 

It seems the time had gone by too fast, and I hadn't really accomplished as much as I thought I would. Oh, well, there is still Saturday. If I had to grade myself on my efficiency for sticking to my agenda, I woulld have to give me a C-.

 

I haven't processed any of my pictures, yet, and more will come in Chapter 2, but for now, I must tend to other responsibilities.

 

Chris

[jgrinz]

thanks Chris ..its almost like I was there .... I cant wait for part two

[CHABSENTIA]

Congrats on the show and thanks for the info.

 

I was wondering if you could answer a question on a VAM here?

 

The 1887 S Morgan has a VAM 4 here that is a near doubled date and is in the Hot 50.. According to VAM World the 1887 P also has a VAM 4 which is a near doubled date.

 

Now I know that Vams aren't interchangable such that a Vam two for one year is not the same as a VAM 2 in another year etc but we are talking about the same date of 1887 and the same VAM but just another mintmark.

 

 

I checked the Registrys here and the 1887S VAM 4 is listed and is a Hot 50 but the 1887P VAM 4 is not listed .

 

Does this mean that NGC has never graded a 1887 P VAM 4 and hence there is no listing or does it mean that NGC just doesn't recognize it?

 

Thanks for your help.

[MunkyMan95]

Awesome report Chris, I can't wait to see what that seal will sell for in the Stacks auction!

[MAULEMALL]

Damm I am envious Chris....Excellent post. (thumbs u

 

My next order of business was to go to the Stack's table. You may remember the photo that I posted, here, of the copy of the Presidential Seal, and I wanted to know if they might be interested in putting it in one of their auctions. I guess it was just dumb luck, but the first person I approached at the Stack's table turned out to be Christine Karstedt who is the President of Stack's. When I showed her the photograph of the seal, I could see the excitement in her eyes. She called the New York office immediately, and they want to put it in the Money Show in Baltimore in July(?) So, I will be taking a drive to the Stack's office in Ft. Lauderdale sometime in April to deliver the Presidential Seal. Sorry! I just don't trust ANY shipping company not to drop it or damage it in some way.

Oh my God... Do you have it insured... I would think that Stacks would give an insurance estimate and Provide for a secure pick up.

 

Man that would tighten my butt.

A Beautiful and Historic piece!

[bsshog40]

Nice report Chris.It sounds like there is alot to see and do. As large as it sounds, it seems that just trying to find people to take care of issues you need is more time consuming than anything. Thanks for the report.

[rrantique]

Good luck on the seal Chris,and thanks for the wonderful report. (thumbs u

[thebeav]

Great post ! TY....

 

Paul

[rbrown4]

Great post Chris. I hate to see you part with that seal it is beautiful. I would like to send you a listing of some VAMS for a pricing from your new book purchase. Can't wait to hear more.

 

Rey

[jesbroken]

Man, you make a fellow envious!! Thanks for the great first hand view of the bourse. When you get back, could you again post the photo of the seal? That is exciting enough even have something in the Stack's sale, but something as awesome as the seal! Great job and thanks again.

[cpm9ball]

Does this mean that NGC has never graded a 1887 P VAM 4 and hence there is no listing or does it mean that NGC just doesn't recognize it?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

On the contrary, the mintmark has just as much to do with a variety designation as the date. You wouldln't say that two Chevy's are identical if one had an automatic transmission and the other was stick shift. Would you?

 

Since the 1887P is not recognized as a Top 100 or Hot 50, NGC will not designate the VAM on the insert. It doesn't mean that they haven't graded any. I guess you could say that it is like the 2001-D Kennedy on my sig line. You won't find a separate category for it in the NGC Census. It is grouped with all of the other MS64 Kennedy's.

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

Great post Chris. I hate to see you part with that seal it is beautiful. I would like to send you a listing of some VAMS for a pricing from your new book purchase. Can't wait to hear more.

 

Rey

 

Rey, the VAMView is a freebie with the SSDC membership. PM me the list that you want checked. I can't guarantee there will be any pricing information, but I will look for you.

 

Chris

[MunkyMan95]

I found a pic of the seal for those who asked.

 

[cpm9ball]

Man, you make a fellow envious!! Thanks for the great first hand view of the bourse. When you get back, could you again post the photo of the seal? That is exciting enough even have something in the Stack's sale, but something as awesome as the seal! Great job and thanks again.

 

Ask and ye shall receive!

 

Chris

[Just Bob]

[CHABSENTIA]

Thanks for the info. Just wanted to make sure as there are a lot of VAMS. I understand that just because a VAM is for say a double date on one year that it would be a different VAM number on a different date.

 

There may be other simalarities but on different dates witht the VAM number but I just noticed that the 1887 P AND THE 1887 S both had a VAM 4 for the same reason.

 

This then goes to the Holders.If a person had an 1887P with a VAM 4 then it would not be desiginated as a VAM 4 on an NGC holder. I beleive that PCGS designates a VAM 4 on the 1887P as well as other Vams that NGC does not designate.

 

I do not know if PCGS in its Registry gives more points for say a 1887P VAM 4 then just a 1887 P in the same grade. If this is the case and I use it for an NGC Registry then I will only get the points for a 1887P in the same grade.

 

The next point would be whether there is a Premium on the 1887P VAM 4 as opposed to an 1887 of the same grade in the Market Place.

 

If the decision in this case is that the points in the Registry make no difference then one would have to join PCGS or go to a Dealer that would have it slabbed for you etc.

 

Another choice would be to go to ANACS but then would Coin in the ANACS holder with the same grade and the same VAM command as much as the one in the PCGS Holder?

[cpm9ball]

Since I don't participate in any Registry, I am not qualified to comment or give you an opinion in that regard.

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

Don't minde me, I'm just trying to get the posts in order.

 

Chris

[TomB]

It sounds like you still had a terrific time, Chris, and that Presidential seal will make someone very happy, if not quite a bit lighter in the wallet, too. (thumbs u

[cpm9ball]

It sounds like you still had a terrific time, Chris, and that Presidential seal will make someone very happy, if not quite a bit lighter in the wallet, too. (thumbs u

 

I really don't have any idea what the winning bid will be, but I do want to be there when it happens.

 

Chris