Error coin question

[moonlite]

Hi folks, normally I hang out in the CGC section of these forums. However, a lady came and asked me today about a coin she had. Its a 1977 Washington quarter with heads on both sides. I looked at it pretty close and it looked legit. Its been in circulation so both sides have some wear.

 

Pictures are below. I told her I would try and find out a value for her if possible. Any help is appreciated or if I posted in the wrong place, please point out the right one. Thanks!

 

Sides

 

I have a small video of me looking at the coin to prove its double sided.

 

Please PM me any thoughts you don't want to post here.

David

 

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

I wish it was something valuable so you could tell the lady, but it's not. These are rather common, magicians alter them to use in magic tricks. They take two regular coins, shave half off, and stick them together. If its very well done, it might be hard to see, but I can guarantee you it is fake.

[MunkyMan95]

It's a common magician's coin. Made as a novelty. Worth about $1.

[ldhair]

I wish it was something valuable so you could tell the lady, but it's not. These are rather common, magicians alter them to use in magic tricks. They take two regular coins, shave half off, and stick them together. If its very well done, it might be hard to see, but I can guarantee you it is fake.

I agree, it's not real. Sorry.

 

[cpm9ball]

Another way they put the two heads together is to cut away the entire rim and about one-half of the thickness of one coin. Then they ream out the reverse side to the identical specifications. If it is done properly, the seam where the two join together simply looks like the inner edge of the rim. You wouldn't be able to detect it without magnification.

 

Chris

[bsshog40]

I agree, a two-headed magicians coin.

[moonlite]

thanks guys

[TomB]

It was likely done the way that Chris has suggested.

[moovyz]

Now this question comes to mind...

 

 

Are there any known examples of a genuine US minted coins with either both obverses or reverses?

[physics-fan3.14]

Now this question comes to mind...

 

 

Are there any known examples of a genuine US minted coins with either both obverses or reverses?

 

I wasn't going to go into the detail without someone asking, but since you did....

 

The simple answer is no. It is technically impossible. Basically, the obverse die and reverse die are different shapes, so the obverse die will not fit into the reverse die's position in the coin press. That being said, on different series different sides are the hammer (the upper die which does the striking) and the anvil (the lower die which gets struck). So I guess if you were really lucky and the mint was really careless, and if you just happened to be switching series where one of them has an obverse die on the hammer and another has an obverse die on the anvil, you might be possibly able to get two obverses. An example of this is the switchover from regular quarters to state quarters - the regular quarter had the obverse as the hammer and state quarters have the reverse as the hammer die. However, this is highly unlikely and as far as I know has never happened.

[cpm9ball]

This is just a guess, but I doubt it. It is my understanding that the way the press is configured makes it impossible to install two obverse or two reverse dies for the same coining operation.

 

Chris

[AegisIII]

Now this question comes to mind...

 

 

Are there any known examples of a genuine US minted coins with either both obverses or reverses?

 

Yes. There's a known Roosevelt dime with a reverse/reverse mule (clad), plus two or so Washington reverse/reverse (clad) mules. There's also an 1859 obverse/obverse Indian cent mule. There are a few others in the pattern, or perhaps more precisely, "pattern" series but I cannot recall those from the top of my head.

[cpm9ball]

Now this question comes to mind...

 

 

Are there any known examples of a genuine US minted coins with either both obverses or reverses?

 

Yes. There's a known Roosevelt dime with a reverse/reverse mule (clad), plus two or so Washington reverse/reverse (clad) mules. There's also an 1859 obverse/obverse Indian cent mule. There are a few others in the pattern, or perhaps more precisely, "pattern" series but I cannot recall those from the top of my head.

 

I thought a mule was a coin struck using the dies from two different denominations? A coin struck with the same obverse dies (or reverse dies) of the same denomination wouldn't be considered a mule, and cannot possibly occur.

 

Chris

[bsshog40]

You are correct Chris. A mule is a coin or medal minted with obverse and reverse designs not normally seen on the same piece.

[AegisIII]

Now this question comes to mind...

 

 

Are there any known examples of a genuine US minted coins with either both obverses or reverses?

 

Yes. There's a known Roosevelt dime with a reverse/reverse mule (clad), plus two or so Washington reverse/reverse (clad) mules. There's also an 1859 obverse/obverse Indian cent mule. There are a few others in the pattern, or perhaps more precisely, "pattern" series but I cannot recall those from the top of my head.

 

I thought a mule was a coin struck using the dies from two different denominations? A coin struck with the same obverse dies (or reverse dies) of the same denomination wouldn't be considered a mule, and cannot possibly occur.

 

Chris

 

I view a mule as a combination of dies not intended to go together, whether or not they are of the same denomination or not. I'd even call the Maryland quarter struck on a dollar blank with a dollar collar a mule, as I think the collar should be viewed as a die also.

 

And the dual reverse coins have occurred, and so are clearly possible. Here are some Coin World links.

Dime

Quarter

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Devine said around 1984 at the Error-A-Rama in San Francisco, he showed the coin to Ed Fulwider, then night supervisor at the San Francisco Mint. "He related that the coin was probably made during a 'midnight shift,'" Devine said. "He stated because of the die structure, it was impossible to mate two reverse dies. Someone must have gone upstairs and ground off the preventive lugs from the shaft of the die, he told me."

 

This is the key statement in the above linked articles. These were intentionally and purposefully made, thus I would not consider them legitimate errors. Just like the so called Washington Quarter-Sacagawea mules that came out a few years ago and were proven to have been deliberately made hoaxes.

[Coin]

...but the deliberately made 5 hoax1913 Liberty head nickels sure sell for a lot of moola......

...although this has no bearing upon head/head and tail/tail and mule coinage....just a small input to not cross out the value somebody will place on a hoax coin....but I understand , fakes are only novelties just like the double-headed joke nickels that sell for $2 at novelty stores.

[e1cnr]

A few patterns from the 1860's made double headed

 

A few coins in 1850's before they made top and bottom dies different to make it impossible to combine top and bottom dies (without midnight shift grinding help)

 

Others probably minted outside of US mint