OK, So pcgs is offering $50.000 reward to stop milk spotting on ASE's

[MAULEMALL]

Does anyone over here have a problem with thier ASE's spotting in NGC holders?

 

Just how many has pcgs bought back per thier guaranty?

[James_OldeTowne]

I am not convinced that the rubber rings that PCGS uses are inert. Almost by definition, flexible plastic cannot be chemically inert.

 

Of course, NO plastic is totally inert.

 

All that aside, can't residues and such be removed from the surface of ASEs with a simple dip? Wouldn't that prevent subsequent surface contamination by milk spots?

[DC Dawg]

Of course, NO plastic is totally inert.

I don't think any material is totally inert. But non-PVC plastic is a better and practical solution.

 

I've always wondered about these gaskets that PCGS, NGC, and others put in their slabs. I wonder if in 10-20 years we won't find all the coins toning or spotting because of the materials used?

 

Scott

[bsshog40]

ASE's have been known to milk spot even out of slabs. I haven't heard of any positive results from dipping either. I think it has something to do with the rinsing process at the US Mint itself. I think those that do not get rinsed properly aquire the spots over tiime. Probably not seen at the time of slabbing and eventually just start forming as time progresses.

[physics-fan3.14]

Of course, NO plastic is totally inert.

I don't think any material is totally inert. But non-PVC plastic is a better and practical solution.

 

I've always wondered about these gaskets that PCGS, NGC, and others put in their slabs. I wonder if in 10-20 years we won't find all the coins toning or spotting because of the materials used?

 

Scott

 

Don't you know that's part of the business plan? It's called a continuing stream of revenue. Crack, dip, resubmit.

[gmarguli]

Does anyone over here have a problem with thier ASE's spotting in NGC holders?

 

Just how many has pcgs bought back per thier guaranty?

 

I've had a few NGC slabbed ones spot. I had a PF70 that downgraded to PF66 (NGC bought this coin back) and I've had several MS69s that I assume developed the spots after slabbing. I bought them slabbed and wholesaled them out.

 

Not sure what PCGS has paid out on these coins, but they are basically reaping what they sowed. They were concerned most about market price for their coins, so they graded few in the top grade. These commanded very high prices. Many of the coins turned and now PCGS has to pay these high prices to buy back these slabbed bullion.

 

I've heard of quite a few of the reverse proofs in PCGS PF70 develop spotting and I'd guess they're paying out around $1200-$1500 each for these.

 

I've also seen some MS SAE spotted in ANACS & ICG slabs. I assume they spotted after being slabbed.

[just-john]

If they think rubber rings work they should talk to NASA

[CHABSENTIA]

I looked into this several months ago and was told that the ones that developed milk spots was due to incorrect rinsing at the U.S.Mint.

[Zoins]

There is a lot of anecdotal stories on when milkspots form and how prevalent they are but the "evidence" may be more confusing than helpful because they seem to be all over the map. There are stories that some coins have spots on them right out of OGP while there are also stories of 15 year old coins without spots in OGP getting them less than a year after being slabbed.

 

I wonder if the Mint thinks this is a big problem? It seems that milk spots happens to coins from the 1960s on up but it also seems that people are most concerned with slabbed ASEs. If that's the main area, how important is having a coin remain stable in a third-party product that is often used in marketing campaigns listed on the Mint's Consumer Awareness pages for allegedly misleading marketing?

[James_OldeTowne]

There is a lot of anecdotal stories on when milkspots form and how prevalent they are but the "evidence" may be more confusing than helpful because they seem to be all over the map. There are stories that some coins have spots on them right out of OGP while there are also stories of 15 year old coins without spots in OGP getting them less than a year after being slabbed.

 

I wonder if the Mint thinks this is a big problem? It seems that milk spots happens to coins from the 1960s on up but it also seems that people are most concerned with slabbed ASEs. If that's the main area, how important is having a coin remain stable in a third-party product that is often used in marketing campaigns listed on the Mint's Consumer Awareness pages for allegedly misleading marketing?

Milk spots are certainly nothing new. They show up on proof coins back to the 1930s, if not earlier. But it does seem to be a particularly egregious problem from the 1950s onward.

 

I would guess it is an issue related to faulty rinsing of the planchets at the mint, leaving chemical residue behind, but that a subsequent dip by the collector would ensure pristine surfaces.

 

That'll be $10,000, please!

 

[SatTech]

What's funny is they seem to show up on SAE's alot more often then on the modern commemerative series. Could be because ALOT more people collect silver eagles than the commems but who knows.

[fhcoins-migration]

jmho. I caught part of a video on silver eagle production a couple of years ago. The solution has to with either one of 2 things. Incorrect planchet rinsing (tired of hearing that one eh?) or .....check out how silver eagles are tubed. The bu coins run into these three pronged holders. When theres 20 on the holder it moves 1 slot down. The mint video showed and described the production worker putting a light machine oil on the prongs (and we know how dedicated some employees are). This was before the coins were struck. Ever burned motor oil on an engine? And silver eagles are pure silver which is many times more reactive and sensitive than 90%. Light machine oil would make the light spotting I see in fresh tubes and since slabs are not 100% airtite I can see the milk spotting worsening with age. I think that the milk spots people complain about were always there just very light when 1st graded and missed by the graders and consumer.

50k please

[SatTech]

That doesn't really explain the problem with the proof issues. Definately a good idea however.

[fhcoins-migration]

Supposedly the proofs are hand picked from the dies, but does anyone know how they are placed in the capsules? Wonder if something similarly automated is used. I know that whatever is in the planchets is "burned" into it and nothing I have used phases it. From ammonia, to dip, to commercial metal prep chemicals with little or no success (there is a cleaner that works but leaves the whole coin an unnatural bright white like processed morgan dollars). I don't have any way to analyze what the spot is composed of but I'm sure others do. Wouldnt be that difficult to trace down the origin of the challenge from there.