I find this a bit comical.........

[Doogy]

.....but typical of PCGS.

 

There was a recent post on PCGS website about the upcoming Goldberg 'Millenia' auction. Many (most) say that this will be the largest world coin auction in history, in terms of dollars and importance. PCGS had an article on their website touting this fact, and someone made a post about it:

 

click here for the article ATS

 

I mentioned at the bottom of the thread that it was surprising they put the article up, as ALL of the coins are NGC certified, and NGC has ads in major publications stating this fact. (as well as quotes from the Goldbergs saying NGC is THE grader of choice for this type of material). I've found that PCGS doesn't usually tout anything that isn't in their holders, heaven forbid the Kool-aid drinkers should begin to second guess them.

 

In usual PCGS way, they seemed to have deleted the link. I guess they wouldn't want to share any historic coin news with the collecting public, if they didn't get their piece of it.

[MarkFeld]

I find it a bit comical, as well, but mostly sad and disappointing. A great coin, set or collection should not be ignored simply because the competition graded it. And the sharing of information pertaining to this hobby should be encouraged, not discouraged and/or hidden.

[MikeInFL]

It is things like this that make me think that TPGs don't care about the collector any more.

 

However, situations such as the one you mention certainly makes it appear that PCGS is more draconian in their policies than their competitors.

 

Being #1 has its advantages, but decisions such as this aren't wise, in my opinion -- as credibility is the most important thing when it comes to TPGs, and decisions such as this erode that credibility.

 

All IMHO...Mike

[bsshog40]

I agree Mike. It makes me wonder what keeps thier forum alive when all have to either walk on eggshells, or miss out on numismatic news because of PCGS's discriminating policies.

[GDJMSP]

That will indeed be a very important auction. The catalog itself is destined to be one of the most highly sought after of them all. I made sure I was on the list for it several months ago when the auction was first announced. I suspect this auction will rival if not surpass the Eliasberg World Gold auction in both notoriety and realized prices.

[Doogy]

It now appears that they put the article back up on their website. I posted this in a thread ATS, so maybe they read it and had second thoughts?

 

 

[comicAL]

Hi, All

 

I had nothing to do with this, really!

 

AAJ

[Revenant]

Hi, All

 

I had nothing to do with this, really!

 

AAJ

 

It's his fault! Get him!

[gmarguli]

Being #1 has its advantages, but decisions such as this aren't wise, in my opinion -- as credibility is the most important thing when it comes to TPGs, and decisions such as this erode that credibility.

 

But you bought into their marketing and are calling them #1. PCGS hasn't been #1 in anything for a LONG time.

[stinkycheese1]

Being #1 has its advantages, but decisions such as this aren't wise, in my opinion -- as credibility is the most important thing when it comes to TPGs, and decisions such as this erode that credibility.

 

But you bought into their marketing and are calling them #1. PCGS hasn't been #1 in anything for a LONG time.

 

Maybe PCGS isn't #1, but PCGS over the other grading companies seem to bring in more money when your coin is in their slab. For example coin the same grade in a PCGS holder might sell for a higher price than the coin in the same grade in an ANACS holder. At least that's what I've heard...

[MikeInFL]

Being #1 has its advantages, but decisions such as this aren't wise, in my opinion -- as credibility is the most important thing when it comes to TPGs, and decisions such as this erode that credibility.

 

But you bought into their marketing and are calling them #1. PCGS hasn't been #1 in anything for a LONG time.

 

I haven't bought into anything, but it is farily obvious that PCGS is #1 when it comes to one key measurement -- average price realized. So perhaps the market has bought in -- which is more important, to me and I would argue the market as a whole, than which company makes more money or has the most submissions.

 

Personally, I could care less which holder the coin is in, and in many cases would prefer an NGC, ANACS, ICG or even raw coins if I can get them for less.

 

Regardless, the point being made was that the competitive-inspired censorship policy used by the #1 TPG one of the market leaders is shortsighted -- particularly when the services the company provides are based upon trust. Do you disagree?...Mike

[SatTech]

Yeah, that's pretty typical of their attitude over there. I read but don't post. It seems like every third post is some drivel about how NGC/ANACS et al can't grade such and such a series, but PCGS nails it every time. When you have guys posting advice and saying they won't buy anything that isn't slabbed PCGS and advising others to say no to 'foreign' plastic, you're probably not getting good advice. I have yet to read a post over here belittling people for buying ICG,ANACS,NGC, or PCGS. It's so much more civilized.

 

 

[bsshog40]

I think the #1 and #2 thing with the TPG's is a bunch of bull. The only benefit that PCGS has is they have a market value guide that is available to every tom, , and harry. That's the only thing people have to go buy. NGC or ANACS, or any other TPG, does not do this. Most times when you see anybody quote the value of the coin they are selling on ebay, they are using the PCGS value guide. Nobody is going to sell thier coins for the most money they can get using a numismedia price. Not when there are so many unknowledgeable buyers out there that only have access to the PCGS value guide. It' marketing, and that's exactlly what the PCGS value guide is, and advertisement for there coins with a price. JMO

[gmarguli]

I haven't bought into anything, but it is farily obvious that PCGS is #1 when it comes to one key measurement -- average price realized. So perhaps the market has bought in -- which is more important, to me and I would argue the market as a whole, than which company makes more money or has the most submissions.

 

It's fairly obvious that PCGS gives lower than market grades to many coins so that they can point to prices realized and say the market prefers PCGS.

 

Stick an MS65 in an MS64 slab and point to the superior prices realized for your coins in PCGS plastic. The submitter loses as they are paying for the PCGS marketing machine. The smart buyers buy these coins and put them in NGC plastic and make a profit that the original submitter should have made.

 

 

 

Regardless, the point being made was that the competitive-inspired censorship policy used by the #1 TPG one of the market leaders is shortsighted -- particularly when the services the company provides are based upon trust. Do you disagree?...Mike

 

I agree. Censorship = fear. If you are #1 and as superior as you tell people, why the need for fear.

[gmarguli]

Here is an example of what I'm talking about: Link

 

This guy has an 1878 8TF Morgan in NGC MS66*. That is probably a $6500 coin.

 

The coin is now in a PCGS MS65 slab. A PCGS MS65 would likely sell for $1,000, so assuming this is really nice looking based on the original Star designation and PQ, you're looking at $1,500 compared to around $900 for a regular old NGC MS65.

 

See, PCGS coins sell for more than NGC coins. $1,500 to only $900. Premium prices for PCGS coins!!!!!!!!! That's why they're #1!!!!!!!

 

The original poster of that thread, mike92694, should be castrated so he can't reproduce.

[Doogy]

Here is an example of what I'm talking about: Link

 

This guy has an 1878 8TF Morgan in NGC MS66*. That is probably a $6500 coin.

 

The coin is now in a PCGS MS65 slab. A PCGS MS65 would likely sell for $1,000, so assuming this is really nice looking based on the original Star designation and PQ, you're looking at $1,500 compared to around $900 for a regular old NGC MS65.

 

See, PCGS coins sell for more than NGC coins. $1,500 to only $900. Premium prices for PCGS coins!!!!!!!!! That's why they're #1!!!!!!!

 

The original poster of that thread, mike92694, should be castrated so he can't reproduce.

 

yup, what a insufficiently_thoughtful_person!

[MAULEMALL]

Here is an example of what I'm talking about: Link

 

This guy has an 1878 8TF Morgan in NGC MS66*. That is probably a $6500 coin.

 

The coin is now in a PCGS MS65 slab. A PCGS MS65 would likely sell for $1,000, so assuming this is really nice looking based on the original Star designation and PQ, you're looking at $1,500 compared to around $900 for a regular old NGC MS65.

 

See, PCGS coins sell for more than NGC coins. $1,500 to only $900. Premium prices for PCGS coins!!!!!!!!! That's why they're #1!!!!!!!

 

The original poster of that thread, mike92694, should be castrated so he can't reproduce.

 

yup, what a insufficiently_thoughtful_person!

Then he posts this...

Posts: 93

 

Friday November 16, 2007 1:24 PM

 

 

 

 

 

<< Thought I was the only wondering why the heck did you did that. Sorry all I could think of was good grief. >>

 

 

 

I always like torturing myself with crossovers.

 

Don't plan on selling the coins for the time being.

 

On paper, I have allegedly lost over $15,000 since I've started doing crossovers.

 

$15.000 on cross overs

[gmarguli]

I always like torturing myself with crossovers.

 

Don't plan on selling the coins for the time being.

 

On paper, I have allegedly lost over $15,000 since I've started doing crossovers.

 

 

This guy is dumber than I thought. He's paid money for the privilege to lose $15,000.

 

 

Some people really are too dumb to live.

[IGWT]

He hasn't lost anything . . . yet. What would he have lost if he cracked out the coins because he simply doesn't like plastic? How dumb would he be in that case?

[gmarguli]

He hasn't lost anything . . . yet. What would he have lost if he cracked out the coins because he simply doesn't like plastic? How dumb would he be in that case?

 

Oh no, he HAS lost something right now. He owns something now that has a lot lower value than before. I own Worldcom stock. Would you tell me I haven't lost anything...yet?

 

It would have been dumb to crack the coins because you didn't like the plastic. However, you are a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person to cross the coins and accept a lower grade knowing full well it will be a big financial hit.

[SatTech]

Kool-Aid is a powerful drug!