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I located another Fake NGC Slab on eBay. Interested?

Started by braddick,

30 posts in this topic

braddick

braddick

Posted
Posted

It's getting a bit more difficult to locate these, but sure enough... they're still out there.

 

Here's the FAKE one (and, yes- the commemorative is fake too)

 

For reference, here's a REAL genuine slab/coin in the same grade

 

Two of the many 'tells' is the dash between the digits (on the fake one it's about touching the "0"). Also the "6" in MS62" is wrong on the fake (see the slant/tilt compared to the genuine NGC insert).

The commemorative itself is a counterfeit- now available as a die struck silver produced in China.

 

For fun, check out the seller who is offering this NGC fake slab/coin's ANACS bust dollars...

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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Posted

I will contact ther appropriate parties and have sent this to the seller:

 

Dear seller,

 

I am sorry to tell you that this is an obvious counterfeit. Among other things, the eagle is the one that was used only on genuine Morgan Dollars from 1921, but also on other date counterfeits. Your 1796 $1 and Lafayette $ also appear to be counterfeit. I say this as a full time dealer of 28 years and former grader at a major grading company. Either you or someone else(I will give you the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't you) has apparently placed counterfeit coins in what might be counterfeit ANACS and NGC slabs. You are being reported to Ebay as well as the secret service and being discussed here:

 

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=618170

and here:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2008896&page=1#Post2008896

 

If you are an honest/ethical person you will end these listings voluntarily and check out what I am telling you. If you don't, it is apparent that you are knowingly trying to commit fraud.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
well said Mark....I even found his 1950 "Proof" Franklin to be suspect, looks like a poorly struck business strike with no luster even....
Thanks. I think the 1950 Franklin is a Proof. Proof surfaces don't always show well in images and not all Proof 1950 halves are deeply mirrored anyway - some are more satin-like in appearance.
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braddick

braddick

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well said Mark....I even found his 1950 "Proof" Franklin to be suspect, looks like a poorly struck business strike with no luster even....
Thanks. I think the 1950 Franklin is a Proof. Proof surfaces don't always show well in images and not all Proof 1950 halves are deeply mirrored anyway - some are more satin-like in appearance.

 

There's no mistaking though this 1951 "Proof" set is actually an AU/MS business strike set of 1951 coins.

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ibyandsellsmith

ibyandsellsmith

Posted
Posted
well said Mark....I even found his 1950 "Proof" Franklin to be suspect, looks like a poorly struck business strike with no luster even....
Thanks. I think the 1950 Franklin is a Proof. Proof surfaces don't always show well in images and not all Proof 1950 halves are deeply mirrored anyway - some are more satin-like in appearance.

 

There's no mistaking though this 1951 "Proof" set is actually an AU/MS business strike set of 1951 coins.

I agree with you on this one, but the other's, I don't know. I can't believe you guys can catch stuff like that. People, "me included" are gullible as hell. Thanks for being on the look out to protect people like me. :golfclap: (thumbs u

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CHABSENTIA

CHABSENTIA

Posted
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I don't know if its the angle or not but the last "1' before the dash seems to be a little higher than the other numbers.

 

This particular Seller may or may not respond amicably. Some time ago before I finished my A.S.E.Collection there was a Seller who was selling the junk slabs and using the NGC population to describe the dates.

 

I wrote him and told him about it and he responded that it was the Population and I asked him to send me a Population report for the slab that showed it and he responded that he didn't have to show me anything and that not only was he going to block me from bidding on his auctions but that he was going to file a complaint with EBAY on me for harassment.He pulled that particular auction. I don' tknow if he is still doing the same but the latest deal on EBAY that lets you list the four Grading companies are probably the result of many Sellers such as him.

 

Maybe this is the latest thing. If you can only list the four grading companies then just use Counterfeit slabs.

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jesbroken

jesbroken

Posted
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Great eye, Pat. I would not have noticed. Many of us owe a great deal of thanks to you, Mark and others who donate their time to cleanse our marketplace of such persons who commit these acts of thievery. I hope you know you are all appreciated.

 

Edited to add:

Does anyone know for certain if the Secret Service or another agency are even interested in these crimes, as they are not concerning circulating coinage? I doubt they care about the NGC slab issues, but what about the Chinese counterfeit coins or the changing of dates, mintmarks or edges grinding, who's auspices do these issues fall under for sure?

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MikeKing

MikeKing

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I will contact ther appropriate parties and have sent this to the seller:

 

Dear seller,

 

I am sorry to tell you that this is an obvious counterfeit. Among other things, the eagle is the one that was used only on genuine Morgan Dollars from 1921, but also on other date counterfeits. Your 1796 $1 and Lafayette $ also appear to be counterfeit. I say this as a full time dealer of 28 years and former grader at a major grading company. Either you or someone else(I will give you the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't you) has apparently placed counterfeit coins in what might be counterfeit ANACS and NGC slabs. You are being reported to Ebay as well as the secret service and being discussed here:

 

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=618170

and here:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2008896&page=1#Post2008896

 

If you are an honest/ethical person you will end these listings voluntarily and check out what I am telling you. If you don't, it is apparent that you are knowingly trying to commit fraud.

 

you could add the FBI to that list too.

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ibyandsellsmith

ibyandsellsmith

Posted
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Great eye, Pat. I would not have noticed. Many of us owe a great deal of thanks to you, Mark and others who donate their time to cleanse our marketplace of such persons who commit these acts of thievery. I hope you know you are all appreciated.

 

Edited to add:

Does anyone know for certain if the Secret Service or another agency are even interested in these crimes, as they are not concerning circulating coinage? I doubt they care about the NGC slab issues, but what about the Chinese counterfeit coins or the changing of dates, mintmarks or edges grinding, who's auspices do these issues fall under for sure?

All it takes is one important coin collector, for this to stop. I'm sick of it, these people should be put in front of a firing squad.

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DC Dawg

DC Dawg

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Did someone do a basic lookup of the serial number?

Could there be something with the lighting that could be making the coin worse than it is?

 

Scott :hi:

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Conder101

Conder101

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I really like his 1801 bust dollar where he has paired a label style discontinued in August 2004 with a (fake) hologram not used until late 2005/early 2006. (The ANACS logo seen on that hologram was not used until at least several months after they started using the "problem coin" label with the big blue ANACS logos on it. When the "problem coin" labels first went into use in Feb 2005 they continued using the logo design on the hologram that had been in use since the early 90's.)

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BillJones

BillJones

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Yes, the dollar is bad, but it's interesting to note that the piece appears to have wear on it. What's with that?

 

Does seller think that the presence of wear on a Mint State graded coin with make buyers think the piece is genuine? hm

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Revenant

Revenant

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Yes, the dollar is bad, but it's interesting to note that the piece appears to have wear on it. What's with that?

 

Does seller think that the presence of wear on a Mint State graded coin with make buyers think the piece is genuine? hm

 

Perfection can be even more suspect than the odd patch of what might be wear.

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braddick

braddick

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Excellent Mark, I tried going the eBay route but wasn't getting results. It makes sense to go directly with the Services as they have a vested interest in getting these auctions pulled and carry weight with eBay. It'll be interesting to watch if not only are this seller's listings for counterfeit coins/ slabs are stopped but if the seller is also NURU'ed.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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Excellent Mark, I tried going the eBay route but wasn't getting results. It makes sense to go directly with the Services as they have a vested interest in getting these auctions pulled and carry weight with eBay. It'll be interesting to watch if not only are this seller's listings for counterfeit coins/ slabs are stopped but if the seller is also NURU'ed.
Pat, based upon what I have observed and heard from the grading companies, they understandably have much more pull and faster results with Ebay than we do with respect to counterfeited slabs. I'm disappointed that the seller wasn't booted from Ebay. But, based on his actions and the fact that he didn't reply to my emails, he has officially made my "seller of interest" list and I plan to watch him carefully. ;)

 

Please continue to post and send me messages about such listings in the future if you care to - thanks.

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gmarguli

gmarguli

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I'm disappointed that the seller wasn't booted from Ebay. But, based on his actions and the fact that he didn't reply to my emails, he has officially made my "seller of interest" list and I plan to watch him carefully. ;)

 

I wouldn't put too much weight into the fact that he didn't reply to your emails - especially if he really doesn't know that the coins are counterfeit. If you sell enough on eBay you will already get your fair share of self-appointed authorities emailing you.

 

You accused him of fraud and stated you reported him to eBay and the Secret Service. If I got an email like that - which I have MANY times in the past, I'd do what I always do to the self-appointed authorities/crackpots, I'd delete the email and block the bidder.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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I'm disappointed that the seller wasn't booted from Ebay. But, based on his actions and the fact that he didn't reply to my emails, he has officially made my "seller of interest" list and I plan to watch him carefully. ;)

 

I wouldn't put too much weight into the fact that he didn't reply to your emails - especially if he really doesn't know that the coins are counterfeit. If you sell enough on eBay you will already get your fair share of self-appointed authorities emailing you.

 

You accused him of fraud and stated you reported him to eBay and the Secret Service. If I got an email like that - which I have MANY times in the past, I'd do what I always do to the self-appointed authorities/crackpots, I'd delete the email and block the bidder.

Greg, you might very well be right. However, while admittedly tough, my first message to him included "Either you or someone else(I will give you the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't you) has apparently placed counterfeit coins in what might be counterfeit ANACS and NGC slabs"

 

And I believe that there was enough good information contained in the two threads I linked and sent to him so that an honest seller probably would have at least questioned the coins/holders and/or replied. That, along with his previous sale of business strike 1951 coins as Proofs leads me to strongly suspect he knows what he's doing.

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braddick

braddick

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I've been watching this seller and based on his past experiences and buying habits I believe he knew exactly what he was doing.

 

Greg, one good reason you delete and block like messages is because you are experienced and know you have done nothing wrong nor have anything to fear.

 

It's difficult to believe this seller received a pretty well worded email (from Mark) suggesting 15K or more worth of his coins are bogus and he didn't respond whatsoever.

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