If you don't know what you're talking about, please don't post as if you do!

[MarkFeld]

This (and just about every other) chat forum offers a mixture of helpful information and misinformation. And unfortunately, readers and/or those seeking information and advice don't always know which is which.

 

I was just reading this thread across the street and am outraged over some replies from a couple of respondents - does anyone here care to guess which ones?

 

Link to some misinformation

[TomB]

It appears that I responded to that post! :o

[MarkFeld]

Unfortunately, and no doubt due to the negative feedback, the original poster deleted his images. The 1907 $10 Indian looked like an AU example with hairlines from a (light?) cleaning. But a number of posters called its authenticity into question, incorrectly in my opinion. Perhaps more disturbing to me, however, were these posts:

 

That coin has been whizzed on....

and

Without question...Counterfeit.

Shame on those two posters, as there was nothing in the images to give any basis for such remarks, and if they are that uninformed, they shouldn't speak as if they know what they're talking about. Flame away if you feel I'm being too harsh.

[pendragon1998]

Just a wild guess, but would they be the counterfeit comments? The picture didn't show for me.

 

I addressed your gripe several times in my...dudududududududududuududaaaa....

 

Coin Discussion Forum Rules of Thumb:

 

 

01. Post quantity does not equal post quality.

 

02. Beware of inexperienced collectors passing off their posts as wisdom. (See rule #1)

 

03. Just because someone asks a question doesn't mean you have to post an answer. Particularly if you don't have a clue what the correct answer is.

 

Corollary to rule 03. Just because someone asks for a grade for their coin, doesn't mean you have to answer them with a grade. Particularly if you can't accurately grade, or can't grade accurately from the photo.

 

04. One should never display a larger number of thrusting banana smileys than the number of posts one has made.

 

05. If you're already being a jerk during your first week on the forum, save everybody the trouble of blocking you and just get lost.

 

06. New board members who are rude right out of the gate and can't spell to boot should immediately be placed on everyone's 'ignore this user' list, if not banned outright.

 

07. It's rude to ask someone (especially in public) how much they paid for a coin. It can be done with discretion via a private message if you're in the market for a similar coin, but generally avoid the temptation if you're only asking to satisfy your curiosity.

 

08. When boardmembers get on your case for trying to take advantage of inexperienced collectors, the proper response is to either change your ways or take a hike. Becoming defensive will only make you look worse than you already do.

 

09. "Never, ever make excuses. Your friends don't need them and your enemies won't believe you anyhow." -user EZ_E 09/17/2006

 

10. Remember that "he who knows naught, knows not that he knows naught." That doesn't make the posts of _morons more palatable, but at least you're reminded to take pity on them.

 

11. "Your" is possessive; "You're" is a contraction of "you are". Get that wrong, and no matter how smart you are, you'll look like you don't know what you're talking about.

 

12. All the real psychics won the lottery years ago and are multimillionaires. They don't offer free financial advice. Anyone trying to tell you they know what the future holds for a coin investment is just trying to sell you something. (see rule #2)

 

13. Neither great financial means nor a fine collection do a gentleman make.

 

14. Using "words" like "ur", "u", "ppl", and "r" instead of "your", "you", "people", and "are" just makes you look like a _moron. Nobody with a first grade education or higher has any business spelling like that.

 

15. It's called a period (".") - use it!

 

16. Nobody (important) is interested in yet another thread on whether the buyer or the seller should leave eBay feedback first.

[MarkFeld]

It appears that I responded to that post! :o

And thank goodness you did in that reasonable and informed manner, Tom. Your post was obviously not the type I am so worked up over.

[Keleum]

Pendragon,

 

yours should be a WYNTK post.. I got a good laugh out of it.

[BillJones]

The post has been edited now so that there is no longer a picture.

 

As a result I clearly don't know what I'm talking about, but at least I admit it.

[pendragon1998]

Maybe when I hit 50 it will be

[MarkFeld]

Just a wild guess, but would they be the counterfeit comments? The picture didn't show for me.....

These were the two posts that bothered me the most:

That coin has been whizzed on....

and

Without question...Counterfeit.

 

The post has been edited now so that there is no longer a picture...

Bill, I had noted that in a follow-up post.

 

 

[MikeInFL]

Mark,

 

While I don't necessarily disagree with your outrage, I do realize that people's opinions are what they are, regardless of how they are phrased.

 

Accurate or uninformed, everyone is entitled to voice their opinion. However it would be better if they would indicate it as such rather than phrasing opinion as fact.

 

It is also worth noting that this should also apply to those who DO know what they are talking about -- regardless of how well informed, opinion is opinion, and it should be phrased as such.

 

All IMHO...Mike

 

p.s. the coin was cleaned looks cleaned to me.

 

[edited for clarity]

[DirtyGoldMan]

Pendragon,

 

I really enjoyed you're post. Looks like your on you're way to a classic.

 

[MikeInFL]

Here's the coin in question:

 

[MarkFeld]

Accurate or uninformed, everyone is entitled to voice their opinion. However it would be better if they would indicate it as such rather than phrasing opinion as fact. It is also worth noting that this goes for those who DO know what they are talking about too..Mike

Mike, we are in complete agreement. Additionally, if the posts I referenced had been stated as opinions (and, in one case, without the words "Without question...Counterfeit") , I wouldn't have even started this rant of a thread.

[BillJones]

The coin is real, but its surfaces have cleaned. As such it would be a "no grade."

 

The trouble is it’s been my experience that the services have been historically inconsistent in grading the 1907 no motto, no periods $10 gold coins. A great many of them were struck with poor detail and weak luster. Those coins almost always get low Mint State grades. The trouble is pieces that are a bit better than “typical” seem to get low Mint State grades too.

 

This piece is from my collection. I couldn’t believe it when I saw this coin in an NGC MS-62 holder. I couldn’t get the check written fast enough. I’ve seen pieces in NGC and PCGS MS-64 holders that I didn’t like as well that had price tags that were 5 or 6 times as much.

 

[IGWT]

But there would be so much less to read on the forums if people were to restrict their comments to their competence.

[gmarguli]

Unfortunately, and no doubt due to the negative feedback, the original poster deleted his images. The 1907 $10 Indian looked like an AU example with hairlines from a (light?) cleaning. But a number of posters called its authenticity into question, incorrectly in my opinion. Perhaps more disturbing to me, however, were these posts:

 

That coin has been whizzed on....

and

Without question...Counterfeit.

Shame on those two posters, as there was nothing in the images to give any basis for such remarks, and if they are that uninformed, they shouldn't speak as if they know what they're talking about. Flame away if you feel I'm being too harsh.

 

Since I didn't see the images in the original thread, I wasn't going to comment. However, now that MikeinFL has provided those images, I feel a little better about commenting.

 

I must say that the coin looks very odd to me. I can easily see why some people would question it's authenticity based only on the pictures. Based on the pictures, the obverse is oblong and the reverse looks like a Sacagawea with the wide rims. The reverse almost looks cast or acid etched. The entire color looks off and the surfaces look funky.

 

Perhaps all that is due to the pictures and not representative of the coin? Individual posters have no foolproof way of knowing if this is the case.

 

While I would not post that the coin was "Without question...Counterfeit.", I do not believe it would be out of line for someone to question the authenticity of this coin in a (worded more appropriately) less certain manner.

 

Let's put it this way, how confident are you that this coin is real? Would you be willing to buy this coin off eBay with these pictures from a seller in China with feedback of 3 and the description of: 100% authenicty gurenteed...gem rare!!!...heavy gold big giant coin...buy now....?

 

I can also understand why someone would call it whizzed (on). The lack of apparent hits on the funky looking surfaces might lead some people to believe it has been whizzed. Also, many people incorrectly use the term whizzed to mean harsh cleaning, which is possibly what this poster meant.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you that those two comments maybe shouldn't have been made. I guess I just don't dislike them nearly as much as you.

[jgrinz]

In this instance I can actually understand what Mark is saying. I think it is more influenced by his history in the field of numimatics, as a grader, where YOU ABLSOLUTELY must know that a coin is Not Genuine before labelling it as such.

 

For someone to outright say its NOT genuine from a PICTURE is insane.

 

The pictures are a little funky though

[bsshog40]

Well the pic was veiwable to me and of course my knowledge of gold is slim to none. I would have agreed with the cleaning as to obvious hairline showing, but nothing indicated counterfiet to me.

[guitarwes-migration]

I just signed up for the boards, so Howdy

 

Hi guys, This coin in question is Mine.

 

My pics stink, I know. They were taken in direct sunlight with a 1.2 MP camera freehanded in a hurry.

 

My coin, believe it or not, has very similar color to the other '07 posted. Albeit, my coin has been wiped, it's still a nice coin I think.

 

I really wasn't trying to impress anybody with a Top Pop coin or anything......just trying to post a new coin amongst the blabbering conversations that go on.

 

Mark Feld is the MAN......if you guys hadn't already noticed!

 

Thanks again Mark.

 

[guitarwes-migration]

 

I will catch up with ya'll tomorrow.

 

thanks for the replies from those of you who know what you're talking about.

 

 

wes

 

 

[bsshog40]

Welcome Wes. Yes, I know I am one of alot of people on this forum that are glad to have Mark as a member. I value his opinions highly, and he had proved in his posts that he has some valued opinions.

[dooly]

Welcome over hear .. i only know one thing .. stay over hear there is a better class of coin buff..

 

(thumbs u

dooly

[cladking]

A lot of people mistake their opinions for facts and it becomes very apparent when they are posting misinformation or dubious statements on a message board.

 

Really we all tend to take things at face value even though we know the world doesn't always work that way. I'm sure no one would want everyone to post like a Heinlein "fair witness" or there really wouldn't be much discussion at all.

 

I do generally agree that people should be more cautious about what they purport as fact. Anyone making definitive judgements from a picture runs a high risk of being wrong. Unless you recognize a specific counterfeit then you're sticking your neck out saying it is.

[BillJones]

For someone to outright say its NOT genuine from a PICTURE is insane.

 

But you can tell if a coin is counterfeit from a picture if the picture shows that die work is totally bogus. Here's an example from the U.S. coin section.

 

Counterfeit 1861 Silver Three Cent Piece

[WinstonWare]

If you don't know what you're talking about, please don't post as if you do!

 

 

BWUHAHAHAHAHAH

[ibyandsellsmith]

Welcome Wes, I think your coin is very beautiful, and if it were mine I'd be very proud of it, as I think you are. My opinion on the authenticity would be a far cry from knowledgeable, and as for it being cleaned or not "got me."

[MarkFeld]

......Since I didn't see the images in the original thread, I wasn't going to comment. However, now that MikeinFL has provided those images, I feel a little better about commenting.

 

I must say that the coin looks very odd to me. I can easily see why some people would question it's authenticity based only on the pictures. Based on the pictures, the obverse is oblong and the reverse looks like a Sacagawea with the wide rims. The reverse almost looks cast or acid etched. The entire color looks off and the surfaces look funky.

 

Perhaps all that is due to the pictures and not representative of the coin? Individual posters have no foolproof way of knowing if this is the case.

 

While I would not post that the coin was "Without question...Counterfeit.", I do not believe it would be out of line for someone to question the authenticity of this coin in a (worded more appropriately) less certain manner.

 

Let's put it this way, how confident are you that this coin is real? Would you be willing to buy this coin off eBay with these pictures from a seller in China with feedback of 3 and the description of: 100% authenicty gurenteed...gem rare!!!...heavy gold big giant coin...buy now....?

 

I can also understand why someone would call it whizzed (on). The lack of apparent hits on the funky looking surfaces might lead some people to believe it has been whizzed. Also, many people incorrectly use the term whizzed to mean harsh cleaning, which is possibly what this poster meant.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you that those two comments maybe shouldn't have been made. I guess I just don't dislike them nearly as much as you.

Several of my gold coins (including uncirculated examples), which I have imaged, have displayed similar off-color and exaggerated looking hairlines. So perhaps I am more familiar than a number of others with that type of image. If someone chooses to question the authenticity of a coin, that's fine/their prerogative. However, my main point is that they shouldn't post in such a way as to give the impression they are relaying a fact. And if someone is going to use the term "whizzed" in a numismatic context, they should do so correctly and distinctly from regular "cleaning".

 

I certainly might be wrong, but am extremely confident that the coin is genuine. If I had to set odds, I'd make the line about 97 out of a hundred that it's genuine and I'm fairly conservative. In fact, there are many times when I'm not at all confident that I can make such an assessment from an on line image.

 

I didn't expect others to be as bothered by the comments as I was, but thought I'd use them as inspiration for a thread topic.

[WoodenJefferson]

I’m not saying that it dose not happen here, but I have seen on more than X (fill in your own conclusions) occasions where there has been sort of a “dog pile” affect when people ATS respond to a thread. There is even “I agree with you” imocon that can be used but is nothing more than a “cop out” catch-all phrase if you ask me.

 

If your going to make a call, support that call with at least an attempt to explain yourself. The original poster can at least convey those thoughts and then apply them to other comments and perhaps come to a conclusion one way or the other.

 

We all make mistakes, some blatant, most of them are unknown to ourselves until pointed out by someone just a bit more informed.

 

Anyway, welcome to the forum guitarwes…I don’t have a clue when it comes to gold.

 

 

 

[rrantique]

Hi and welcome to the forum Wes.

[jom]

I looked at the thread and certainly considered a possible counterfeit. I think the picture of the obvious hairlining can lead one to believe either it's fake because of the odd look it gives in the photo. Plus, if the coin were fake then one way to cover it up would be to possibly wipe it. I dunno...just a thought.

 

Bill: Nice 1907. Here's mine:

 

 

jom