JKK

Maybe you still do like it. I see it as copper tarnish, but I don't have the right to tell you what coins you should like. That's a big problem around here, people who think that their hobby (meaning, as they experience it) is the only hobby. That is a mentally_challenged and narcissistic way of looking at things. Do I give two f-bomms about collecting tokens? No. Do I respect the TAMS folks and their interests? Sure, and I'm glad they're around in case I trip over a token I don't recognize or understand. They probably don't get off at shoveling through book after book to attribute a barracks emperors era Roman bronze, either, but they leave me alone with my quaint perversions. Seems I can do the same. Do I think state quarter collecting is preposterous? Whether I do or not is beside the point. The point is that it got literally millions of kids interested in coins. Some have become YNs and some grew into ANs. That's a huge win, and much more important than me looking at a post about one and wondering whatever it is I might be wondering. So I STFU.
So if you like it, you like it. "Like" is not automatically equal to "value." I like the 43-P Jeff, heavily worn, that I found in change when I was eight because I found it in change when I was eight. It is worth $1.26 right now, melt. Don't care. It reminds me of the start of a hobby that is in its sixth decade for me. To anyone else it'd be a melt value worn wartime Jeff. To me it's special.
Of course, it's always good not to overpay for a coin. But it's always a valid question what your goal is. If it's to collect coins you like, then learning to value them from a market standpoint keeps you from being a sucker. If it's to make money, obviously, price paid is everything because that's the break-even number. As with liking or not liking a coin, no one is justified in imposing his definition of his hobby on yours.

Maybe you still do like it. I see it as copper tarnish, but I don't have the right to tell you what coins you should like. That's a big problem around here, people who think that their hobby (meaning, as they experience it) is the only hobby. That is a mentally_challenged and narcissistic way of looking at things. Do I give two f-bomms about collecting tokens? No. Do I respect the TAMS folks and their interests? Sure, and I'm glad they're around in case I trip over a token I don't recognize or understand. They probably don't get off at shoveling through book after book to attribute a barracks emperors era Roman bronze, either, but they leave me alone with my quaint perversions. Seems I can do the same. Do I think state quarter collecting is preposterous? Whether I do or not is beside the point. The point is that it got literally millions of kids interested in coins. Some have become YNs and some grew into ANs. That's a huge win, and much more important than me looking at a post about one and wondering whatever it is I might be wondering. So I STFU.
So if you like it, you like it. "Like" is not automatically equal to "value." I like the 43-P Jeff, heavily worn, that I found in change when I was eight because I found it in change when I was eight. It is worth $1.26 right now, melt. Don't care. It reminds me of the start of a hobby that is in its sixth decade for me. To anyone else it'd be a melt value worn wartime Jeff. To me it's special.
Of course, it's always good not to overpay for a coin. But it's always a valid question what your goal is. If it's to collect coins you like, then learning to value them from a market standpoint keeps you from being a sucker. If it's to make money, obviously, price paid is everything because that's the break-even number. As with liking or not liking a coin, no one is justified in imposing his definition of his hobby on yours.

You're getting there fast. A couple refinements already suggested, and you'll be able to present photos we can evaluate. Note that it is okay to supplement the full pics with zooms of areas in question (necessary for repunched mint marks and so on). Armed with that information, some pretty sharp observers equipped with 40+ years of experience and good references regarding known errors are in position to help you a lot. Your next step would be to get a current Red Book, the bible of US coinage, and an ANA grading guide. That would help you filter out a lot of questions by enabling you to know the answers yourself--quicker and more self-sufficient.

You're getting there fast. A couple refinements already suggested, and you'll be able to present photos we can evaluate. Note that it is okay to supplement the full pics with zooms of areas in question (necessary for repunched mint marks and so on). Armed with that information, some pretty sharp observers equipped with 40+ years of experience and good references regarding known errors are in position to help you a lot. Your next step would be to get a current Red Book, the bible of US coinage, and an ANA grading guide. That would help you filter out a lot of questions by enabling you to know the answers yourself--quicker and more self-sufficient.

You're getting there fast. A couple refinements already suggested, and you'll be able to present photos we can evaluate. Note that it is okay to supplement the full pics with zooms of areas in question (necessary for repunched mint marks and so on). Armed with that information, some pretty sharp observers equipped with 40+ years of experience and good references regarding known errors are in position to help you a lot. Your next step would be to get a current Red Book, the bible of US coinage, and an ANA grading guide. That would help you filter out a lot of questions by enabling you to know the answers yourself--quicker and more self-sufficient.

It never ceases to amaze me how some educated people can still manage to be so ignorant, but they certainly can, sadly.

Hakkaa päälle. Yep, yet another chapter in the eighty-year history of pretentious ignorance. Despite two degrees.

Funnier: it was in the car and my mother was driving. She had been mother-henning Paula about having enough money to go shopping. Her response was her head on a swivel and asking: "You do WHAT?" She then went into a splutter about not knowing how they did things in Finland (like most religious fanatics, my mother is deeply ignorant; one of her first questions to Paula was whether Finns were related to Russians...good lord), but that they needed to have a talk before Paula went anywhere. No idea what would have happened if I hadn't been riding along in back, having realized early on that Finnish native speakers have terrible trouble with our consonant blends and some other sounds. For example, Paula would say she spoke Feeneess, Svediss, Zerman, and Engleess. She called me "Zahn," as close as she could get to "John." So I was able to disassemble the problem without too much delay, cackling as I did so.

Bargain for them. Brutally. Take advantage of the thing you can control, which is how much you pay for them. There are degrees of cleaning and damage.

Also, you should always crop the photos so the whole coin images are as large as possible. Modern photos have very high resolution and if cropped, the coin will in most cases show as much larger (as in about the size of the original partial image).
My stomach rolled a bit when you talked about cleaning with vinegar. Don't clean them at all unless you must remove physical matter that obscures identification or is actively corrosive (like PVC slime). Saying that is like saying to a daycare: "So what ways do you suggest I starve and torture my kids? Dog food and hickory stick work okay?" No, nyet, nein, lo, non, la, okhi, etc. Here is the reason: most forms of chemical cleaning and all forms of physical abrasive cleaning will alter the basic natural color and look. Before, it was just dingy, maybe; after, it looks unnatural, not right. And if value matters, bad cleanings (which would include nearly all novice cleanings) generally drop the value a couple of full grades. That means that the nicer the remaining detail, the more money you throw away.
There are a very, very few people to whom none of my cautions would apply. I know one. I am not myself one. This board might or might not have one, but they are rare and they all paid to play (meaning they had to practice somewhere).

In case you want to know why we always need the whole coin, in short, there are a number of reasons. Some of mine overlap Woods's. First, a positive attribution (as in identification) helps us know if there is a known error in that issue. Second, in case of damage, both at the mint and afterward, what affects one side can affect the other. Third, it helps to know the overall grade (for which the whole coin is needed) in order to determine whether it's even worth you worrying about. So it's not just pedantry; it's necessary information collection to best help you.

Also, you should always crop the photos so the whole coin images are as large as possible. Modern photos have very high resolution and if cropped, the coin will in most cases show as much larger (as in about the size of the original partial image).
My stomach rolled a bit when you talked about cleaning with vinegar. Don't clean them at all unless you must remove physical matter that obscures identification or is actively corrosive (like PVC slime). Saying that is like saying to a daycare: "So what ways do you suggest I starve and torture my kids? Dog food and hickory stick work okay?" No, nyet, nein, lo, non, la, okhi, etc. Here is the reason: most forms of chemical cleaning and all forms of physical abrasive cleaning will alter the basic natural color and look. Before, it was just dingy, maybe; after, it looks unnatural, not right. And if value matters, bad cleanings (which would include nearly all novice cleanings) generally drop the value a couple of full grades. That means that the nicer the remaining detail, the more money you throw away.
There are a very, very few people to whom none of my cautions would apply. I know one. I am not myself one. This board might or might not have one, but they are rare and they all paid to play (meaning they had to practice somewhere).

In case you want to know why we always need the whole coin, in short, there are a number of reasons. Some of mine overlap Woods's. First, a positive attribution (as in identification) helps us know if there is a known error in that issue. Second, in case of damage, both at the mint and afterward, what affects one side can affect the other. Third, it helps to know the overall grade (for which the whole coin is needed) in order to determine whether it's even worth you worrying about. So it's not just pedantry; it's necessary information collection to best help you.

Heh. You just said "Quarters anus 1964 silver..." I remember that in my first quarter college Spanish class. Our instructor was a Spaniard. "Cuantos años tienes, Margarita?" he asked a young woman. "Tengo veinte anos," she said, haltingly. "Please," said the TA, "not in here."

I'm reminded of when our Finnish exchange student said to my mother, "Oh. I have sex for money." My mother is a religious fanatic, and you can imagine her reaction. Finally the family language junkie, who had analyzed her accent patterns, held up a checkbook. "Checks, right?" "Yes. Sex." Then we told her what she'd been saying. She immediately colored like a second-degree sunburn.

I don't see any doubling. Not even the machine doubling/die deterioration doubling that is about ten thousand times more common than authentic doubled dies.

Here is a very succinct article from the board's own David Lange, who is the sort of authority most people should listen to very carefully. Hopefully it will help you grow in understanding.

I'm reminded of when our Finnish exchange student said to my mother, "Oh. I have sex for money." My mother is a religious fanatic, and you can imagine her reaction. Finally the family language junkie, who had analyzed her accent patterns, held up a checkbook. "Checks, right?" "Yes. Sex." Then we told her what she'd been saying. She immediately colored like a second-degree sunburn.

Now, THAT is a great story!!! I got all screwed up with language learning....in middle school, I took German from 6th-8th grade.  Then, I got to high school and switched to Spanish because the high school German teacher and I, well, did not get along.  Let's say that.  And it didn't help that I was in Spanish classes for all four years with this guy who would manage to say the absolute stupidest things you can imagine in Spanish.  He really mangled things and would end up saying things like "Señor Hernandez is vomiting dogs" or "Señora Escobar is raining urine today" in Spanish.  It was absolutely ridiculous.

Heh. You just said "Quarters anus 1964 silver..." I remember that in my first quarter college Spanish class. Our instructor was a Spaniard. "Cuantos años tienes, Margarita?" he asked a young woman. "Tengo veinte anos," she said, haltingly. "Please," said the TA, "not in here."

Heh. You just said "Quarters anus 1964 silver..." I remember that in my first quarter college Spanish class. Our instructor was a Spaniard. "Cuantos años tienes, Margarita?" he asked a young woman. "Tengo veinte anos," she said, haltingly. "Please," said the TA, "not in here."

In US change, you should just get the Red Book. That will tell you which coins are the most valuable (and that you will therefore virtually never find in pocket change). The idea that there's retirement money in the cash register is not supportable, because if there were, I would already have done it by now and would be living in Gaoth Dobhair with a nice view of the North Atlantic. Sometimes it seems like the world thinks America is this place where any time you want something, you just pick up gold nuggets off the ground (the small ones the really really rich people couldn't be bothered with, like one ounce and below) and turn them in for dollars.

If the question is do you have a doubled die, my answer at least is I don't see any evidence of it. Of course, without full shots of both sides, most of the pertinent information is not present. I see a well-worn Merc reverse minted at Philly.

That's sad to hear, because YT is full of buffalo bagels. It's a great place to get bad information, and yes, some of its people would and do lie. There doesn't seem to be any control over that.

This is a zombie thread.  Let's shoot it in the head, put it down and get back to talking coins.