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BULLY

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Journal Entries posted by BULLY

  1. BULLY
    Early Releases vs. First Day of Issue - Opinions Sought!
    Once upon a time, when Early Releases or First Strikes were young and new, they seemed desirable to many collectors. Other collectors may not have cared, understandable.
    The prevalence of such coins, however, often left a collector with the choice of buying a coin with no designation or selecting an Early Released, First Releases, First Strikes coin for the same price. I can't speak for other collectors, but when the two were side by side, and the same price, I took the ER (or other) designation. It's worth noting that in the NGC Registry Sets, there was NEVER any point premium from NGC for any such designation, only the coin grade itself, that is what matters after all.
    Now, the newer thing is "First Day of Issue" which is something that was previously never offered by NGC, nor I believe PCGS and was limited to ANACS, ICG, or other 3rd, 4th or lesser tier TPG services. Now that NGC is offering it, the question becomes: Is there anything MORE desirable from "First Day of Issue" (FDOI) compared to Early Releases, First Releases, First Strikes or those older and more familiar designations from NGC or PCGS?
    Secondarily, if FDOI is more desirable, why?
    Along the same lines, is the FDOI something that you would select OVER the OTHER designations, but ONLY for the same price?
    Similarly, would you select the FDOI designation over a PLAIN/NO designation for the same price?
    The BIG QUESTION: Would you pay more for a FDOI designated coin compared to a plain coin? How about compared to a coin designated Early Releases, First Releases, etc.? If you would pay more, how much? For example, on a $35 coin, would you pay $40 or about a 15% premium? How about an example where the Early Releases coin was $34.95 and the First Day of Issue coin is $35.95, just $1.00 more, or about a 3% premium? Feel free to try some other pricing examples for yourself to craft your own reply. The higher value of the coin, the more significant the price difference might be.
    For the record, I am not trying to start a war here. I am, however, very curious about the opinion of my fellow collectors, investors, and collector-investors, because I was purchasing some coins, and I faced these questions, particularly the FDOI dilemma, and I found myself hesitant which caught me by surprise.
    Historically, I have always been of the mindset that one should by the coin, not the holder. The holder matters, of course, insofar as the grade of the coin, and the reputation of the Third Party Grading (TPG) company. One wonders if, down the line if ever selling a coin, will a holder matter to a potential buyer and if so, will it make a difference in the selling price? I submit that it should not, but in the real world, I pose the question, DOES IT?
    Let me close by saying that for today, on my birthday no less and after a several year self-imposed absence from the Collector Society, I absolutely and 100% will NOT be addressing the issue of "fashion" or otherwise "specialty" labels on slabbed coins, whether they have flags, photos, images of the very coin they hold, signatures of FORMER or current U.S. Mint directors, different color schemes, holders with different cores, etc. I learned more than a few years ago that the topic of "labels" is fraught with strife. I fear even the question I posed about the FDOI designation may be controversial, so I beg my fellow members that if there are differences of opinion, PLEASE let the discourse be civil, that is my birthday wish for the Collectors Society.
    Mike B.
    P.S. Here is a throwback to 1999, the first year of the State Quarters program, but curiously not issued by the U.S. Mint. Instead, here we have an Australian Kookaburra silver bullion coin with a U.S. State Quarter Privy Mark for Connecticut (my home state), featuring the image of CT's state quarter, the famous and historic Charter Oak. Tell me it's not JUST as cool in the plain old-fashioned brown NGC label? Tell the truth now.

    To see old comments for this Journal entry, click here. New comments can be added below.
  2. BULLY

    ANACS on eBay

    By BULLY,

    I know NGC and PCGS are the top tier coin graders.
    I'm not sure how familiar everyone is with eBay's policies for selling graded coins.
    NUTSHELL: In the past, coins couldn't be listed as "certified" nor could they be listed with a numeric grade unless they were graded by NGC or PCGS (or NCS, and appropriate details grade).
    For coins that were graded by ANACS, ICG (or companies that are notably worse than ANACS and ICG), the rules prohibited sellers from calling the coins "certified" or something like that.
    Apparently, that's changed, and ANACS is now included with NGC and PCGS in the category of what may be listed as certified coins. I was surprised because along with ANACS, ICG was also added to the list. Here is the link to the policy:
    http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/currstamps.html#graded
    So, here's my question to the group, and please feel free to answer publicly, or reply directly to me:
    Has grading at ANACS improved to the point where ANACS slabbed coins are considered acceptable to collectors? Would you buy an ANACS slabbed coin? If so, under ANY circumstances, or only in limited cases, and if it's under limited circumstances, what are they?
    Along the same lines, would you submit coins to ANACS for grading? If so, are there any particular coins you'd submit, or would you submit any coins?
    I ask these questions for a couple of reasons:
    1. I haven't been following the industry too closely over the last year or two, so I honestly don't know if there have been any seriously changes at ANACS. Obviously, my preferred TPG company is still NGC. I know most collectors probably still prefer either NGC or PCGS, or use the two interchangeably. However, this gets into the second part of why I'm asking.
    2. A dear friend of mine has just learned that her aging father has quite the hoard of Peace Dollars, Morgan Dollars, and halves, which start from silver Kennedy and apparently date back to at least Walking Liberty series. The large dollars alone apparently number in the hundreds, and as our texts continued overnight, more things kept popping out of the woodwork, so to speak.
    The first thing I'm doing is getting her some 2.5"x2.5" pvc-free flips, for when she CAN finally afford grading.
    That said, she's a waitress and her dad lives on Social Security, so spending $17/coin at NGC is just out of the question. I have presented the idea of pre-selecting coins to submit, the ones which are likely to be the most valuable based on date/mintmark combinations, and condition of course, but even then, her finances will dictate how many she can submit and how frequently.
    I know ANACS often has sales/special offers, and their grading fees are a bit lower than NGC, so with ANACS showing up among the grading companies that eBay seems to be recognizing where they haven't in years past, I'm wondering if it might be worth submitting some of the other coins to ANACS.
    Anyone have experience or knowledge about ANACS and their coin grading as it stands today in the marketplace? How about their coins and do they sell?
    If it's a waste of time and money to even consider it -- that's fine. I know a couple of years ago, I wouldn't have considered mentioning it to my friend. The bottom line is that I'm trying to ascertain whether or not that's changed.
    Hope that made sense, as I'm getting close to bed time.
    Mike B.
    To see old comments for this Journal entry, click here. New comments can be added below.
  3. BULLY
    Graded medals are less expensive than raw ones!
    Here's another example of how purchasing coins, in this case a medal, from dealers already graded can be less expensive than purchasing them raw from the US Mint, and submitting them on your for grading, to NGC or otherwise.
    While I don't ordinarily collect medals, in this case, the 9/11 Memorial Medal, made with ONE OUNCE of SILVER, and of a design which I found appealing, was something I wanted to buy. The medals are currently selling on the US Mint's web site for $66.95, plus shipping of course, with $10 going to charity.
    I managed to find the Philadelphia minted version of the proof medal from a reputable dealer for $49 even, postage paid. The medal was graded by NGC as PF69 Ultra Cameo, and had an Early Releases label to boot.
    The NGC Serial Number is 3550700-030 if you want to look it up, since I've been unable to successfully scan NGC holders. I welcome feedback on how folks scan or photograph slabbed coins.
    About a month later, I came across the West Point minted version of this medal, for $62.99 postage paid. It too was graded by NGC as PF69 Ultra Cameo, with an Early Releases label. Admittedly, it wasn't quite the deal I got on the Philadelphia minted version, but it was STILL LESS THAN ISSUE PRICE and rather than getting a raw version, I got an NGC HIGH-GRADED version, with an Early Releases label to boot.
    The Serial Number for the West Point Medal is 3553035-028
    If one doe the math in simple terms, buying both from the mint would have been:
    $66.95
    $66.95
    $ 4.95 (per order shipping)
    $ 8.00 (per Invoice submission to NGC)
    $40.00 ($20 each for 2 at the Modern Special Tier, assume I submitted with others)
    $20.00 (conservative shipping estimate for shipping TO and FROM NGC)
    -------
    $206.85 Estimated Total if I bought these myself, and submitted them to NGC - with no guarantee of grade that would be achieved.
    Actual Price paid:
    $49.00
    $62.99
    $ 0.00 (free shipping for each, different dealers)
    -------
    $111.99
    This amounts to an actual realized savings of $94.86 or 45%!
    The math for my 2011-S Jefferson Nickel (see previous entry) is a little more complicated. But to do simply break down the US Mint Proof set by coin and divide the price by nine, it is $3.55 per coin. Let's be generous and assume that I didn't pay extra shipping, because I bought the proof set at the same time I bought the medals. Let's also assume I shipped it to and from NGC with the medals, so we need not add shipping costs to and from NGC. So, the math would look something like this:
    $ 3.55 (original purchase price)
    $20.00 (Grading for one coin at Modern Special Tier since I bought an Early Releases coin)
    $ 0.00 (Assume shipped with other items)
    -----------
    $23.55 (not including any shipping)
    Actual cost: $8.99
    For: NGC graded coin, condition: PF69 Ultra Cameo with Early Releases label. We also know that I might have submitted several proof sets before I got a PF69 Ultra Cameo coin -- though I might also have been lucky and received a PF70 graded coin, but for the price, at $8.99, the sure PF69UC coin just seems like a STEAL OF A DEAL, IMHO.
    In this case, the savings is $14.56 or roughly 62% for a NEARLY perfect coin, delivered to my door with no work submitting it to NGC!
    Frankly, I like removing the hassle of it all -- especially when it's cheaper. Not to mention that the NGC price guide already lists the coin at a value of $17.50 -- nearly twice what I paid for it.
    It seems like a "minor" coin -- pun intended -- but it's a MAJOR value!

  4. BULLY
    Truly no offense intended to Hunter's Gold, but I'd like to start a dialogue on the subject, by offering my opinion.
    When I say I intend no offense to Hunter's Gold when he describes in his 02/27/2012 Journal Entry that he had "... a PCGS coin of the same grade in this slot but any time I get a chance to swap out a PCGS coin for a NGC coin I will do so," I truly mean no offense.
    First, I don't know the reason or rationale, nor the motives and goals of this collector.
    However, putting that aside, it raises a broader issue, which has come to light in recent months since NGC decide to eliminate PCGS coins from World Registry Sets, and when many collectors are just waiting for the other shoe to drop when NGC will ultimately decide when NGC will do the same to U.S. coin Registry Sets.
    The very fear I had was that people WOULD somehow enable NGC in their move, either by submitting PCGS coins in quantity for crossover grading, so they may once again be included in the NGC Registry.
    Likewise, I feared that collectors would start replacing their coins, when given a chance, to replace perfectly acceptable PCGS coins in their sets in favor of PCGS coin to either grow or maintain their standing, in the event than NGC takes action against PCGS graded coins in the U.S. Registry Sets as well.
    The last concern, off the top of my head anyway, is that collectors would stop buying PCGS graded coins altogether, in favor of NGC graded coins, just for the purposes of their inclusion in the Registry Sets here in the Collectors Society.
    I have no idea what Hunter's Gold is thinking, nor of the motivation, but the actions at least SEEM to play into NGC's hands. One wonders if it's MORE than just a conspiracy theory that NGC wasn't hoping for just that sort of behavior in making their move with the PCGS World Coin Registry Sets?
    I don't know what others generally see when shopping for coins, but in my experience, speaking VERY broadly, it seems that PCGS coins seem to fetch a slight premium over NGC graded coins in the marketplace as a whole. Further, on some series, PCGS seems to be a "tougher" grader than NGC, making me ask: Why are their coins any less desirable to collectors?
    Now, I understand that NGC is the official grading service of the ANA and the PNG, and that when I submit coins for grading, it's generally been to NGC that I've done so over my years of submissions, so my complaint is not that people choose to submit their coins to NGC over PCGS, please don't misunderstand me.
    My concern, however, is that collectors may begun to shun PCGS coins for no valid reason.
    The old adage of "buy the coin, not the holder" is often touted, and as far as PCGS and NGC are concerned for standards of grading, the two are certainly reliable, and coins graded by either company can generally be sold sight unseen.
    Which brings me back to the beginning. Why replace PCGS coins with NGC coins of the same grade?
    Will other collectors be doing it for U.S. or World coins?
    Will other collectors be staying away from PCGS coins in the marketplace?
    Will you be trying to get your PCGS coins crossed-over to NGC?
    While admittedly some of these questions are half-rhetorical, I would like to hear thoughts from other collectors, and I'd be very curious to hear from Hunter's Gold about the motivation to replace coins of the same grade with NGC vs. PCGS.
    On a separate topic, here's one of my favorite commemorative half dollars in recent U.S. commemorative history, I just find this coin (and its companions) to be an endearing trio of Americana with the bald eagles, and in this case, the eaglets.

  5. BULLY

    Gold vs Platinum

    By BULLY,

    The race is on
    Once upon a time in America, and around the world for that matter, PLATINUM used to be more expensive than gold, MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE in fact. Since sometime in 2011, that has not been the case.
    I remember that 10th Anniversary Platinum American Eagle Set from the U.S. Mint and the going price for that limited edition set. Does anyone else remember how that came in a nice wooden case with a 1/2 oz Proof and a 1/2 oz Reverse Proof Platinum coin.
    I also remember getting a 2007 1 oz. Proof Platinum Eagle at what I call a "closeout" price from the U.S. Mint. I found the coin on the Mint's web site early in 2008 and it was basically a leftover coin. At the time, Platinum was either near or AT its record high of about $2,500 per ounce. Despite this, however, the 1 oz. proof coin, pictured below, was still priced by the U.S. Mint at $1,749, so I grabbed it right quick!
    I was also fortunate that when I sent it to NGC, it earned a PF70 Ultra Cameo Grade, and according to the Mint's web site, this particular issue had a mintage limit of 6,000 coins (substantially less than say, the 2011 25th Anniversary Silver American Eagle 5-coin sets with 100,000 sets issued).
    Within a week of my purchase, the US Mint increased the price on this very same coin by over $200, and within a week after that, the Mint FROZE SALES of ALL noble metal coins because the prices were soaring too high for them to keep up. Does anyone remember that?
    It took a while, but it was after that run-up that the Mint FINALLY, for better or worse, started updating prices for bullion issues regularly, and also SIGNIFICANTLY reduced the return period for bullion issue coins due to the volatility of the bullion coin market.
    With that kind of action, and the limited nature of the coin, combined with the perfect grade from NGC, and what seemed like ever-rising prices for Platinum, I was under the impression that this was going to be a RETIREMENT coin -- HA!
    Ironically, economic turmoil, stock market volatility, U.S. budget deficits, international debt and financial instability in parts of Europe and elsewhere has had people flocking to GOLD and SILVER for years, which had driven the prices to record highs, though they'd dropped, but are on the climb again.
    Which brings us to February 2012, a full FIVE YEARS LATER.
    Where are we now?
    As of a couple hours ago:
    GOLD is up slightly to approximately $1,778.00
    SILVER has rebounded a bit and is at approximately: $35.00
    PLATINUM is FINALLY closing in on GOLD after languishing for years distantly behind gold, now approximately: $1,720.00
    I might be wrong, but I think $58 lower is about the closest that platinum has been to gold in a while.
    The price has essentially now come FULL CIRCLE. I bought the coin FIVE YEARS ago at $1,749 when platinum was $2,500. Now, platinum is FINALLY just catching up to the price I paid for the proof eagle in January of 2008. Isn't that just a hoot? Perhaps the joke is on me.
    In fairness, with the PF70 Ultra Cameo grade, NGC's online price guide shows the coin in my Registry Set valued at $2,470.00. So, I guess it's not ALL bad.
    I wanted to attach the photo, but I can't seem to find the actual .JPG file. However, here's a link to the coin in my Registry Set, and its photos, obverse and reverse.
    http://coins.www.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinView.aspx?PeopleSetCoinID=654343
    So, I'll close with a question to ponder to oneself: Are precious metals REALLY a great of a "hedge" investment? Or, perhaps, are they JUST as volatile as the stock market and perhaps just as cyclical?
    There's an old adage about eggs and a basket. Despite the make-up of my collection, which, if you scroll through some of the pages of my Registry Sets you'll see, includes plenty of silver, gold, and platinum from the U.S. and other parts of the world, I for one think the old saying applies.
    I welcome comments or thoughts about this or any of my previous entries. I'm a bit of an insomniac, which sometimes accounts for my late night and lengthy entries. It fills the time in the dark of night when there's not much else to do other than laundry or dishes.
    Mike

  6. BULLY
    Previous topics posted on 02/12/2012 - INSURANCE for your collection, and an accurate INVENTORY of your coins.
    You may recall that my previous entry originated as a result of another collector's entry about previously obscuring his sets for security purposes.
    That posting coincided with an entry from another collector about how to insure one's collection.
    Therefore, I made an entry highlighting insurance and inventory issues for our collections. As usual, my entry ran a bit long, which is not shocking to those who know me as they know I can be verbose.
    TODAY'S TOPIC: SECURITY
    I'll apologize in advance because the topic of security for our coin collections is multi-faceted, and my posting may get a bit long-winded, thus just the one topic this time.
    Let's start with the obvious, since it is basic to all places of storage, just at home, in a home safe, or even when using safe-deposit boxes in banks and credit unions -- that is A PROPER ENVIRONMENT.
    Coins don't like humidity, nor are they particularly fond of direct sunlight. Some coins are more susceptible to the elements than others. Generally speaking, copper, cupro-nickel alloys, etc. are more sensitive than is silver, which is more sensitive than silver bullion, which is more sensitive than gold. Depending what you collect though, there are books on the subject, and even web sites which have advice about the proper storage of coins. However, the copper example is why when you read the NGC Guarantee, there is a MUCH more limited period for NGC graded copper coins than for other issues.
    A dry environment in a fairly constant temperature is important for long-term storage of your numismatic items.
    While generally a very secure location, and a location likely to help you save on your insurance rates, if you store your collection in a safe-deposit box, check on your collection every few months to make sure no problems are developing.
    Further, when selecting a safe deposit box, consider what you may be storing when you are choosing the size, and check the pricing. While selecting the LARGEST box they have, if you plan on filling it, consider its placement on the wall, and how HEAVY it may be to remove and replace it! Depending on cost, it may be worth two smaller boxes instead of one larger box. Imagine a box filled with several hundred Silver American Eagles in NGC holders, just for example, or with some bags or rolls of Lincoln Cents, Morgan Dollars, or whatever you might have stockpiled. It's also worth mentioning that the safe deposit boxes at many institutions are SOLD OUT, and have long waiting lists for which openings rarely arise. IF you have trouble, be on the lookout for NEWLY OPENED banks/credit unions, and get in on the ground floor, so to speak.
    Also, before even DECIDING on using a safe-deposit box at a particular financial institution, it's worth asking some questions about the heating/cooling systems where the vault is, and also checking out the LOCATION of the safe-deposit box vault within the institution.
    EXAMPLE: Think hurricane Katrina in New Orleans. Such devastation could happen almost anywhere in the country.
    With potential flooding wherever you might be, is a BASEMENT vault the ideal place for your coin collection? Also, if the vault is in the basement, might it be damp which could harm your coins?
    This raises a couple of issues which I will bullet point:
    A. Just because your coins are in a safe deposit box, doesn't mean you don't need to insure them. I know I'm beating it to death, but just look at New Orleans during Katrina. Your bank could literally no longer exist.
    B. Use silica packets or another dessicant to absorb moisture where you store your coins; in your closet, drawer, home safe, safe deposit box or what-have-you. I've seen them sold commercially, but they are also commonly available in many vitamin and medicine bottles. SAVE THEM! Store them in an air-tight jar until you get to your safe-deposit box so they aren't absorbing moisture from the air in your kitchen. Have friends and family save them for you too, and use them! Once you start LOOKING for them, you will be AMAZED at the places you find them, such as in packaging from mail-order companies with your bedding, pillows or shoes, etc. People just toss them without thinking, and they are very useful and a small gift with purchase for those who need them!
    C. If you have a home safe, first and foremost, the basement or the garage is PROBABLY not the best location for it due to temperature fluctuations, humidity fluctuations, and potential flooding.
    D. If you buy a large home safe, SPRING FOR the dehumidifier! It's a modest add-on which will occasionally need to be replaced. Nowadays, there are also renewable options available, some which will last up to 10 years for very reasonable sums.
    Storing coins: ORIGINAL GOVERNMENT PACKAGING vs. PROFESSIONALLY GRADED HOLDERS/SLABBED COINS
    While the US Mint has greatly improved its packaging in recent years, one need only look at coins in original government packaging (OGP) in say Mint Sets going back to the 60s or 70s and see how the coins have often often toned unattractively. In some cases, like the Silver American Eagles which come from the Mint in PVC-free plastic holders, as long as the coins are stored under proper conditions, the coins aren't in immediate danger from their packaging. While there are certainly arguments for or against the value having the coins graded by a Third Party Grading company like NGC or PCGS, I'll leave that as a matter of personal preference. There are also arguments for and against having NGC grade coins WITHIN their OGP (such as "Blue Pack" Ikes), again, I will leave that as a matter of personal preference. Be aware with such grading however, that NGC's guarantee is modified from their standard guarantee for coins they grade.
    For coins in older OGP that might degrade and could even adversely affect the surface of your coin, professional grading may be necessary to protect your coin(s). While it's certainly a matter of choice, a good guide is to balance the value of the graded coin and an approximate grade vs. the price of the having it graded. Be sure to factor in the costs of shipping to/from NGC. This raises a couple other topics which I will bullet point:
    A. COIN CLEANING: Generally, the simple answer is NO, just don't do it! Cleaning a coin presents an oddity which many of us already know. A coin that has circulated and shows signs of wear has an altered appearance if it's been cleaned. In essence, what you have is a coin that's bright but worn. Generally, a coin loses value if cleaned. Most experienced numismatists are able to spot a cleaned coin - and NGC and PCGS definitely can. If a coin is so corroded that it is unrecognizable, you may try a solution of mild dish soap and distilled water. Rinse the coin thoroughly with distilled water and allow the coin to air dry otherwise you should consult a professional services such as NCS for professional conservation services. NCS is another division of the NGC family of companies and may be found here:
    http://www.ncscoin.com/
    While the price increased for 2012, don't forget about the NCS Modern Tier which is still a REALLY GREAT VALUE!
    Submit an

  7. BULLY
    Home security and the security of our collections is a serious issue
    In reading about a good reason to obscure sets, security, I came to think that talking about security for ourselves and our collections is a topic that is worthy of periodic exploration.
    One topic: INSURANCE. Whether it is theft or disaster (fire, hurricane a la Katrina style), having adequate insurance for your collection is important. I know another member who recently posted a question about insurance for coin collections specifically, so it too seems topical right now. While there may be others, I it's worth checking out the AXA Art Insurance coverage available as a member of the ANA (American Numismatic Association), through the Hugh Wood Agency. ANA membership is required since it's an "association" policy, but it tends to be less expensive than through most major homeowners insurance carriers. Which brings me to say that it's worth mentioning that it IS worth checking with your homeowners insurance carrier, just in case. The unfortunate reality, however, is that it with a majority of carriers, it is cost prohibitive because in their own words, they "just don't specialize in it."
    Which brings me to Topic Two: INVENTORY
    While your insurance carrier may not require an inventory of your collection to issue a policy, in the event of a loss, an inventory will be necessary to document your collection. You'll also want to check with your carrier about any necessary receipts and/or photographs of your collection, if required at all. As a rule though, receipts are never bad to keep, even if you scan/digitize them and same them on CD, back up hard drive, in a safe or safe deposit box, etc.
    So, I'll talk about how my method of inventory started over the years, and how it's beginning to evolve, and perhaps you can learn from some of my missteps, skip them, and perhaps develop your own "best practice."
    At first, I tried a simple Excel spreadsheet, but it seemed challenging to maintain as things grew. So, I developed my own Microsoft Access database, with a sort of "GUI" look (Graphic User Interface) that was very specific to coin collection, so that data entry was VERY SIMPLE. While there were drop down boxes, once you knew what was in the drop down boxes, you simply started typing the first letter (maybe two) and could hit enter to fill the fields. The good part was that in database form, with pre-formatted data entry fields, the database made it easy to capture standard or customized reports, and was also easily downloaded into an Excel spreadsheet.
    The biggest downside to having the data in Excel or Access is simply that the estimated value for the included coins does not get updated unless done so manually. Frankly, since starting my database quite a number of years ago, I've not updated the values once. Gold and silver were each a fraction the cost of what they are now. In fairness, in the event of a loss, it's the inventory that is most important. Values can be determined if and when you have a loss. However, this brings me to the next incarnations of my inventory.
    I got a new computer this year, loaded with Windows 7 and all. Well, of course my old version of Access is not compatible with Windows 7 (even if I could find the CD after all these years). So, I needed Access 2010. I haven't opened and loaded it yet because according to the package, the 90-days of support begin from REGISTRATION, not from purchase date. You see, between the time I purchased it and decided to start updating my inventory, I discovered that NGC had updated it's Collection Manager to allow users to include:
    1. Slabbed coins from any TPG company, in addition to NGC, NCS, and PCGS (while the others are not accepted competitively).
    2. Raw/uncertified coins.
    Even better, when entering the coin in the Collection Manager, there are boxes to include purchase date, purchase price, estimated value, etc. Further, for a majority anyway, thought not all, U.S. coins graded by NGC or PCGS, NGC also supplies values from a reliable source, and the values are updated regularly. More importantly, you can pull reports from the Collection Manager in a variety of formats, including Excel. While it may take a bit of effort and some "cleaning up" it's a substantial tool that should not be overlooked.
    Depending on the composition of your collection, U.S. vs. foreign coins for example, or a mixture of the two, the updated values part will obviously be of differing use to you. However, you're still free to load estimated values when you add even your foreign graded coins, and even if they aren't updated regularly, my original point that in the event of a loss, it is the INVENTORY ITSELF that is most important. Values can be determined when and IF necessary.
    In all honesty, while I think NGC's collection manager and its reports have some fine tuning yet to be done, and this is strictly personal opinion here, but I think that using the online Collection Manager is superior to my self-created Access database or any Excel spreadsheet on its own for the following reasons:
    1. For at least some, if not all of your coins, depending on the make-up of your collection, reliable values will be updated regularly.
    2. Reports can be extracted from the Collection Manager, in a variety of methods, in a variety of formats to suit your needs and preference. A word of warning: Pulling your ENTIRE collection to an Excel download MIGHT take quite a while, depending on its size. I know I don't have the largest collection among us, and mine took somewhere between 50 minutes and an hour, give or take.
    3. By using the collection manager, in the event of a fire, or some major devastation wherever you live (say on the scale of Katrina in New Orleans), when you were ready to file a claim for your loss, your inventory would be accessible from any computer anywhere in the world. You needn't worry that even your bank and its safe deposit boxes are under water, or that your computer AND the back-up hard drive or CD was burned in a fire. I do still suggest occasionally downloading the information from the Collection Manager - color me cautious.
    So, this entry has already gotten VERY LONG, and I've only covered two topics, INSURANCE and its companion INVENTORY.
    I guess in my next entry, I'll move on to topics involving home security.
    I'll leave you with an image of a coin that is often snubbed, by the public and even by many collections, and at the very least under-appreciated; that is, the Susan B. Anthony Dollar. My only wish i that I'd received an MS68 on my submission after seeing that the difference in grade made the MS68 coin fetch a price worth about FIVE TIME what mine is worth based on a Teletrade Auction.

  8. BULLY
    Well, the coins really are the same, but that wasn't what I was asking, so a point of clarification.
    MVCoins raised an issue in response to the question I posed to the group, asking are the coins in the holders with the Early Releases label from NGC not the same as coins which aren't in those holders.
    For grading, value in NGC Registry price guides, and for points - the answer is yes, they are certainly the same.
    Whether or not a collector places greater value on coins with the label is a separate issue entirely, and one that I would love to discuss, just some other time.
    MVCoins also pointed to the fact that at least in MY example, the 25th Anniversary Silver American Eagle Sets, the sets sold out from the Mint on the first day, so aren't they ALL Early Releases?
    Well, that answer is a resounding no.
    I for one did not get my coins until two days before the Early Releases cut-off date -- a month after they went on sale at the US Mint.
    I saw a journal entry here about a collector who has been on the waitlist for the set for months, continued to get ongoing delay emails from the Mint's fulfillment center, and had lost hope. Then, one day, I want to say just a few weeks ago, that collection just got his set -- in mid January -- over a month and a half after the cut-off date, and that would make approximately 2.5 months after his order on the day of release.
    As for collecting classic coins vs. others, that is also a discussion for another time. I will say briefly though, that the Lincoln Cent has arguably become a classic coin, having run now for well over a century, with some interesting changes over the course of the longest running coin series in our country's history. The point though is that even this classic Lincoln Cent is eligible for Early Release labels, if someone chooses to obtain it.
    So, regardless of my specific example of 1st day sell-out by the US Mint for the 25th Anniversary Silver American Eagle sets, there are PLENTY of coins which DO NOT sell out on day one, or even day 401, and therefore do not meet the criteria for the Early Releases label.
    And of course, we have no idea when the Mint made the coins. I don't know how long MVCoins has been around and been collecting, but let's use our thinking caps and turn back several years and remember when NGC used the "FIRST STRIKES" labels, which was the standard at the time.
    NGC ultimately eliminated the label, and rightfully so, in favor of "Early Releases, and gave solid rationale for doing so, right in line with MVCoins' point. NGC's reason was that without any way to verify WHEN a coin was produced by the U.S. Mint, something I think they discovered through bulk submissions of original large Mint boxes of coins, that "First Strikes" was simply inaccurate and as a Third Party Grading service which is striving to provide the most accurate information about a coin as is possible, they could no longer support the First Strikes designation. In lieu of that, they offered Early Releases labels, and defined as described here:
    http://www.ngccoin.com/services/earlyreleases.aspx
    It basically boils down to: coins received by NGC during the first 30 days of release.
    Which brings me to the point of my ORIGINAL message on the 7th of February, which questioned the validity of the Early Releases designation when coins weren't received BY the cut-off date posted by NGC, and in turn therefore questioned the integrity of NGC's processes -- and posed it to the group for any opinions, which I more than welcome, for better or worse -- I just don't want to get into a debate about the merits of Early Releases vs. plain brown labels right now, deal?
  9. BULLY
    Is NGC's integrity for Early Releases cut-off dates above reproach? If your answer was yes, please continue reading.
    Here's the big question of the day, and I wanted to pose it for the group:
     
    For those collectors who submit coins for Early Releases, or for that matter, even the new First Releases designations, or those who might collect coins with Early Releases labels, are you under the impression that NGC is "pretty solid" on their published deadline dates for a particular coin issue?
     
    Here is where NGC describes it:
     
    http://www.ngccoin.com/services/earlyreleases.aspx
     
    I was certain that NGC's dates were firm - no wiggle-room. Notice the term I used is in the past tense.
     
    Here's what I've recently found.
     
    I'm doing something I rarely do, which is shedding a bit of privacy, in hopes that it's for the greater good.
     
    The coins I submitted on the invoice in the .PDF file I included from NGC were two sets of the 25th Anniversary Silver American Eagle Sets.
     
    The deadline for receipt for the Early Releases designation for that set was Thursday, December 8, 2011 as noted here:
     
    http://www.ngccoin.com/news/US-Cutoff-Dates.aspx
     
    What you will see on the invoice is that it is for ten (10) coins, Invoice Number 2570497 and that NGC received it on 12/15/2011. The date coincides with the paper invoice which was returned to me with my coins during the second week of January.
     
    Now, since I can't upload MULTIPLE images here, I can give you two choices. You may either look up my 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle Sets (there are two sets) in the NGC Registry, and see the coins for yourself, and that they have serial numbers which match the invoice, 2570497-(001-010), as well as the Early Releases designation. If you prefer, here is the list of serial numbers, and you may simply plug them into the 'Verify NGC Certification' feature and see that they are Early Releases designation slabbed coins:
     
    2570497-001
    2570497-002
    2570497-003
    2570497-004
    2570497-005
    2570497-006
    2570497-007
    2570497-008
    2570497-009
    2570497-010
     
    We all know that NGC doesn't give Early Releases coins extra points in the NGC Registry, but we DO know that they charge extra for the service/label, at the Modern Special Tier, rather than just the Modern Tier. We may or may not see price differences in the marketplace for Early Releases slabbed NGC coins, and collectors, for better or worse, and may or may not be willing to pay a slight premium for NGC Early Releases slabbed coins vs. a similarly graded coin in a plain brown label.
     
    However, I don't intend this to be a debate about buying the coin vs. buying the label, many of us have strong opinions about that already, and may have even recently expressed them.
     
    I wish to maintain focus on the INTEGRITY of NGC and the INTEGRITY of the Early Releases label from NGC.
     
    Should something like this give us pause? Is this cause for greater concern within the greater numismatic community? Again, for better or worse, are collectors getting what they are paying for?
     
    Before I open the floor on the subject, I just want to prepare the group that I am soon going to be opening another hot button topic about NGC. So, for now, I'll stick to the integrity of NGC's Early Releases, and see how the group feels about it.
     
    Mike B.

  10. BULLY
    I knew WINNERS would get bumped!
    When I analyzed NGC's public announcement about making World Coin Registry Sets "NGC Exclusive," NGC went on to say how "most" of the sets were ALREADY NGC exclusive and how "FEW" people this change would actually affect.
    Meanwhile, we've seen countless journal entries and topics on the Message Boards with upset Collectors Society members. I think I've read one posting from a member who was ambivalent about the change, and one collector who was excited about the change.
    Now the actual fallout occurs, just as I knew it would and predicted in my earlier entry.
    I went through just a handful of my World Coin Registry Sets, and viewed the number 1, 2 and 3 ranking sets, and found some top (winning) sets loaded with PCGS graded coins.
    This of course meant that when the change took effect, the people who had JUST WON "Best in Category" awards (and perhaps had won them for several years running) might very well lose their #1 place and therefore their award was more like a consolation prize, out with the old.
    Now, 2nd and 3rd ranking sets might end up on top, simply by virtue of the fact that they do (or don't) have PCGS graded coins in their sets. Is that what really makes a competitive set, particularly when it's PCGS graded coins, rather than NGC graded coins which, for some reason, seem to command a premium in the marketplace?
    For so many years, as I've developed my love for numismatics, the lesson I've heard repeated ad nauseum was "Buy the coin, not the holder." Obviously, that didn't necessarily apply to some funky grading company that no one has ever heard of. However, when it comes to the likes of NGC or PCGS, getting the coin in the grade you desire, you really can't go wrong with either.
    So, as Jackson so eloquently put it, "the deed is done." PCGS coins have been stripped from the World Coin Registry Sets.
    Here's the $20,000 question: How many people with PCGS-graded World Coins who dropped in their rankings, or lost their sets altogther, have contacted NGC directly, other than through these Journals or on the Message Boards? Specifically, I am curious how many folks took the time to contact NGC via email, made calls to NGC, or even took pen to paper and wrote letters of complaint about making the World Coin Sets "NGC Exclusive?"
    Not a rhetorical question; I am genuinely interested.
    If you haven't communicated your discontent to NGC directly, why not? I am a general fan of the direct approach.
    I for one have a handful -- five specifically -- of Silver Chinese Pandas which were graded by PCGS, and which have vanished from my Registry Sets, lowering my points score in several sets, and which I find generally disappointing.
  11. BULLY
    On January 18th, I posted a Journal entry about how NGC was making their World Coin Sets "NGC Exclusive."
    I my somewhat verbose entry, I laid out the facts and why I thought it seemed like a bad move, and posed the question: "Is it just me?"
    The members of the NGC Collectors Society have not let me down. I didn't hear from lots of people privately, but I've watched the additional journal entries here over the last week, including multi-award Journal winner Iowa Silver Baron most recently. I've also seen a number of similar topics on the Message Boards.
    NGC said this in their January 17th announcement:
    "Most NGC World Registry Sets are already NGC-exclusive, so this change will affect relatively few users. Ultimately, it will allow us to create more accurate Registry Sets, streamline the process for adding coins to sets, and enhance the competition."
    Based on the reaction of long-time members, collectors, competitive collectors, many paid members, and newer collectors alike, I think NGC has severely underestimated the "few" users who will be affected.
    Perhaps some of the negative reaction is intensified that this announcement comes so soon after NGC announced some very significant price increases, not just for memberships, but for coin-grading and imaging services, and WORLD COIN grading fees rose even more sharply, and regardless of NGC's intent, it might at least APPEAR that NGC is seeking to artificially create a market for its "CROSSOVER" service within World Coins for starters.
    If someone was into conspiracy theories, that person could think that NGC was testing the waters with the World Coin sets to see if their World Coin "Crossover" submissions ticked upward, and that conspiracy theorist could also think that the reason they'd start with World Coins over U.S. coins is that U.S. coins are too big a chunk of their business, and worse, doing both at the same time might overwhelm them, so test a smaller segment and see how it goes. At least that is what a conspiracy theorist MIGHT think.
    This raises my next question:
    Does NGC monitor these Journal entries? Sure, they read some of them at least when it's time to do the awards, but do they read them and take them to heart?
    Without invalidating the messages that we have all shared here, expressing our discontent, I wonder if it is now time to send those messages directly to NGC, via email, with phone calls, by snail mail if you prefer, carrier pigeon or whatever method you you may select?
    The reason I ask is decidedly pointed. While not suggesting that we become villagers with pitchforks and torches to storm the offices of NGC, I DO wonder if it is not worth a more direct approach.
    While NGC may read these messages, they are not required to answer them in any way shape or form, are they?
    Whereas, if you email, call, write or what-have-you, there is some expectation of a formal response, for better or for worse. Netflix made some infamously bad announcements in 2011, and due to investor, member and general public backlash, they retreated from their plans to break-up their service. Would NGC do the same? I have no idea. I do, however, believe that members should be heard.
    EXAMPLE: Despite the language of NGC's announcement indicating that U.S. coin sets would NOT be affected, the general feeling I've seen and heard in Journals and on NGC Message Boards is that U.S. sets won't be far behind. Clearly, many members don't feel reassured by NGC's statement. I would extrapolate that based on the number of postings, that far more people are concerned than have voiced their concern, because for every person who raises their complaint, there are dozens if not 100s or 1,000s who never say a word, but who just take their business elsewhere; that's a common axiom known in customer service and call center management among Fortune 100, and other companies.
    Then, taking each of NGC's statements on the subject piece by piece, I haven't read or heard anything from NGC which supports their vague assertions:
    1. "Most NGC World Registry Sets are already NGC-exclusive, so this change will affect relatively few users."
    REACTION: Based on everything I've read from Collectors Society Members, I've seen only ONE individual who was relatively excited about this change, because his or her coin consisted of NGC coins where a competing and perhaps stronger set consisted of PCGS coins. Further, the sheer number of postings on the topic in strong opposition to the move seems to indicate that more than "relatively few" users are affected.
    2. "It will allow us to create more accurate Registry Sets."
    REACTION: On what is this based? Is PCGS known for counterfeit holders? Has their been a huge depreciation in PCGS coins due to a degradation of their grading standards? The answers are no and no. Therefore the question becomes, what exactly is more accurate about an NGC serial number vs. a PCGS serial number, especially with the extremely strong and technologically advanced steps PCGS is taking to prevent counterfeiting, particularly with its world coin grading. Further, if US Coins aren't being affected, why not? If PCGS coins are somehow "less accurate" for World Sets, the obvious question is why are they "acceptably" accurate for U.S. coin sets? It lends support to the theory posed by so many users that U.S. coin sets are next. Further, how exactly do PCGS coins in a set make it less accurate? It's sort of like an opposite-sex married couple in Springfield, MA claiming that somehow, a same-sex couple in Boston, MA somehow diminishes THEIR OWN marriage, but they don't really explain how their marriage has diminished. Do they love one another less? Has they marriage license evaporated? If they are people of faith, has their house of worship fallen into a sink-hole? Likewise, the assertion from NGC that PCGS coins will somehow make World Coin sets "more accurate" because apparently the PCGS coins in World Sets are "less accurate" is very short on specifics. In fact, it lacks specifics entirely.
    3. "[it will] streamline the process for adding coins to sets."
    REACTION: Will it? NGC must verify PCGS graded coins. They used to do this with a roughly 24 hour process or so, though it has been quite some time since I've added a PCGS graded coin to one of my sets. Therefore, I am unaware of this is still a delayed process, or if it has become automated. Perhaps other members can speak to this better, particularly if you plan to sent a complaint to NGC on this subject. However, it again begs the question: If NGC is trying to "streamline" adding coins to sets by eliminating PCGS coins in WORLD SETS, are they deluded enough to think that we don't expect them to do the exact same thing to U.S. sets as further "streamlining" at some point?
    4. "[it will] enhance the competition."
    REACTION: Will it really enhance the competition or will it just start the competition anew with different players? Winners past and present (2006-2011, and probably more) have sets which contain PCGS coins in their winning World Coin sets. I noticed a number of 2nd and 3rd place sets which either DID or DID NOT have PCGS graded coins in their sets. S
  12. BULLY

    World Coin Registry Sets

    By BULLY,

    Is NGC taking a step in the wrong direction by making World Coin sets NGC exclusive?
    Over the last year or two, NGC has greatly enhanced the coin registry to allow for expanded ways to manage your entire coin collection (NGC or not), which is part of the reason I was all the more surprised to read the announcement in NGC's most recently emailed newsletter which indicated that effective January 31st of this year, World Coin Registry Sets will become NGC Exclusive.
    A link to NGC's announcement is here:
    http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?NewsletterNewsArticleID=1536
    I found this announcement curious for several reasons, and I was curious how others in the group feel about it, that is, if anyone even noticed it.
    Now, admittedly, I only have a handful of coins which are even in sets which are "in the running" for competitive World Coin sets and which are graded by PCGS which will apparently "fall out" of my sets effective January 31st of 2012. So, at the most I might drop from number 4 to number 5 or something, in a few categories.
    I did notice, however, that a number of "Best in Category" World Coin set winners from 2006-2011 in various countries and categories had PCGS coins contributing to their "Best in Category" status, and that quite a few #2 or #3 placing sets either had (or didn't have) PCGS graded coins in their World Coin sets in the same categories. Therefore, I thought it rather sad that JUST AFTER Registry Set winners were announced and awarded for 2011, barely a month later, winners may drop because coins in their sets may no longer count, and #2 or #3 sets may either also drop, or MAY RISE TO #1 just by virtue of having, or NOT HAVING as the case may be, PCGS graded goins in their sets.
    I've never thought of PCGS of anything but a "first tier" grading service, just like NGC. I've also considered coins graded by PCGS of equal value and quality to those of NGC, which is another reason I found the announcement by NGC surprising.
    I also found it surprising that NGC would take this stance, considering the following information I found on PCGS' web site:
    PCGS Secure Plus Now Includes FREE, High-Quality Images
    "PCGS Secure Plus is the most reliable protection you can give your coins. With the PCGS Secure PlusT service, each coin (both sides) is laser scanned, imaged, and registered into the Secure Plus data base. A metallic analysis can also be performed to help detect counterfeit or altered coins. If a coin has been tampered with, it will be revealed. And now, high-quality images of all coins submitted under Secure Plus are available under Cert Verification on the PCGS website, free of charge."
    http://www.pcgs.com/secureplus.html
    PCGS Secure Plus Now Includes all Service Levels
    PCGS has expanded our successful PCGS Secure PlusT Program to include all current service levels. Secure Plus Service is only available for coins submitted under Grading and Regrading submission types (no crossovers). This includes Modern for $20 per coin, Mint Errors at $65 per coin, Special Issues at $65 per coin and Show Economy at $75 per coin (5-coin minimum). These changes go into effect immediately.
    And then especially when I read this:
    Important New Non-U.S. (World) Coin Requirements
    Effective November 15, 2011, all non-U.S. coins dated prior to 1955 will be REQUIRED to go through our PCGS Secure PlusT Service. Coins minted after 1955 with a declared value of less than $1,000 are eligible for our Regular Modern service level (this includes Chinese coins as well).
    PCGS Secure Plus is a new, patent-pending service we consider to be the industry's most significant advancement in consumer protection since the introduction of third-party grading in 1986.
    Released after two years of extensive testing in partnership with Coinsecure, Inc. of Palo Alto, California, the PCGS Secure Plus system digitally captures the unique "fingerprint" of each coin, and enters it into a permanent data base. Neither the coin's appearance nor its grade can be changed without flagging the system. If any previously registered coin has been artificially toned, puttied or processed in some other way in an effort to get a higher grade, it will automatically be detected.
    With such an impressive and aggressive effort on fraud detection by PCGS, I wonder why NGC wouldn't see fit to continue to recognize PCGS graded coins in the World Coin Registry Sets as of January 31st? It leaves me more than a bit nonplussed.
    Is it just me?
    I welcome private replies of course, though I am curious to see responses from those who are most impacted by the change.
  13. BULLY
    Whether it was your 25th Anniversary SAE sets or other submissions, what do you think when you read the turnaround time on NGC's web site?
    A question for the group, and I am having this post to the Message Boards as well. I welcome your private responses as well.
    When you submit your coins, say under Modern or Modern Special (or any other) tiers, and NGC's site says 12 Working Days, like it does here:
    http://www.ngccoin.com/services/services.asp
    What do you take that to mean?
    Do you think it means that 12 business days is the general average turnaround time for that grading tier?
    OR
    Do you think it means that 12 business days is the CURRENT turnaround time for that grading tier?
    This would apply to the other grading tiers as well -- whichever you might use, have recently used, etc.
    I know that like me, many members received their 25th Anniversary SAE Sets from the US Mint at the beginning of December and got them to NGC just in time for the December 8th cut-off. I am curious how long it took for others to get their sets returned.
    As a follow-up question, I am also curious how the group feels on the issue of WHEN NGC's clock starts, or SHOULD start, ticking? Specifically an example like this:
    Does the clock start ticking on the turnaround time the day NGC receives the submission, as long as it is a business day?
    OR
    Does the clock start ticking on the turnaround time the day NGC puts the submission into their system as "received"? Before answering, take a moment consider the following:
    1. What if the date the submission is being entered into the system is days, a week, or even two weeks later than the submission was ACTUALLY received by NGC?
    2. Would you feel the same way if it was your insurance company processing your claim(s) if they didn't start counting until they got to it, rather than the date it was actually received? What if states have laws which mandate a time to process your claims?
    3. Consider another industry leader in the field of coin grading. PCGS posts the following on their web site about their TARGET turnaround time, and their ACTUAL current turnaround time here: http://www.pcgs.com/Statistics/
    Considering those additional factors, does your answer change as to when NGC should start ITS clock?
    Lastly, I included an image of one of the coins I submitted which was delivered to NGC on December 6th and was mailed back to me on January 9th - a tad longer than 12 business days, at least by my count. In NGC's defense, I recognize that by having the coins imaged, their published information indicates that it would add ONE BUSINESS DAY in addition to the Tier turnaround time. However, December 6th to January 9th still seems a bit lengthy to me, that is, WITHOUT changing the published turnaround times at all. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong. That's why I am curious how the group feels about it.
    Mike B.

  14. BULLY
    Check out the World Coin Sets for Australia, the "Kookaburra Silver Dollars, Including Varieties, Complete Set"
     
    My set name is: Bully's Kookie Kookaburra'sMy set is hardly impressive at only 5%, with 7 coins I think, 6 of which FINALLY now have images! However, what I think may make this set interesting to some collectors, is the "crossover" collectibility to many of you as collectors of different things:What are they?Well, in the set I have the only five in a series (to the best of my knowledge anyway), of State Quarter Kookaburra Silver Bullion coins.That's right, the Australians made Kookaburra Coins in 1999, five different ones, with a "privy" mark for lack of a better term. The mark on each of the five coins was a replica of the corresponding U.S. State Quarter: Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Georgia, and my home state, Connecticut featuring even though I know it was among some of the least popular state quarter designs, one of MY FAVORITE state quarter designs, The Charter Oak. I actually included a brief description of the history of The Charter Oak along with the coin in that set.Anyway, I think the set from Australia is interesting in a number of ways:1. The fact that a foreign mint would issue coins with the U.S. State Quarters on them just goes to show HOW VERY POPULAR our quarter program was (or at least was expected to be. I honestly don't know why Australia stopped the program after the first year, so if there are any Australians or Kookaburra collectors who are more well-versed on the subject, I'd be curious for any details about that.2. It is an interesting way for U.S. Coin collectors to branch out to collect foreign coins since they feature U.S. coins (i.e. the state quarters).3. For bullion collectors, it's a neat way to branch out from perhaps U.S. Silver Eagles or other bullion to Australian Bullion because the Silver is .999 pure, and features some iconic American images, a truly unique combination.These are just a couple of the "crossover" combination type observations I see in these coins, at a glance. Perhaps you see other potential for collectibility, among them I imagine that they were issued JUST FOR ONE YEAR! Short lived series tend to be collectible just on that basis alone.So, check them out -- let me know what you think about them. Are they interesting to you at all? Do you hate them? Does it make you wonder "What the heck were those Australians thinking?" Do you think "I wish they finished the series? OR at least my state?"Here's a sample image, to perhaps lure you...I'll start at the very beginning, the First State.
  15. BULLY
    ...Nothing fancy, but affordable!
    I nabbed this coin when making another purchase. Shipping didn't cost, well, a nickel! The coin itself is lovely at Pf69 Ultra Cameo from NGC, and it included an Early Releases Label -- not a huge deal for this 2011-S Jefferson Nickel with the Monticello Reverse, but would have increased the grading price if I submitted the coin myself.
    All told, this slabbed coin cost me a mere $8.99, postage paid. Considering standard NGC grading fees, I swear it's cheaper to buy the 69 graded coins from dealers at bargain prices than it is to buy proof sets from the US Mint and submit them to NGC (hoping for higher grades), especially with the postage involved to and from NGC, as well as the number of sets one might have to submit to obtain a complete set in 69 grade -- never mind proof 70 coins, which are hit or miss at best.
    You can see an image of this coin using NGC's coin look-up. I tried scanning the holder, but it came out SO blurry, I deleted the images. The number is 3455393-115
    Which brings me to a question for the group: How do you all deal with images for your coins? Do you rely on NGC or PCGS to image your coins, especially if you didn't have them graded yourself? If you scan your coins, do you have a special scanner? If you photograph them, is there a special trick, flash or no flash, ideal backgrounds, etc.?
    I am finding this issue most difficult, especially now that NGC has increased its imaging charge to $5 per coin just for the internet imaging, and $10 per coin for the higher resolution images.
    Part of my concern, which NGC has yet to address, is whether the new $10 high resolution scans will be in file sizes small enough to include the coin images in the NGC Registry.
    Historically, with the old $3 internet images, I've found the photos disappointing at best. In fact, many of those photos which I had hoped to include with my Registry Sets, but was unable to do so because NGC had made the images too large to the limited space available. I found it curious that NGC's very own digital images wouldn't fit in their very own Registry.
    Now NGC increased the cost for images, which I hope have improved. Then they added the $10 images, and it begs the question if they are more intensive with DPI, will they fit in the NGC Registry?
  16. BULLY
    One too many?!
    Previously, NGC was reluctant to jump on the "First Strike" bandwagon, and explained its rationale accordingly, since coins weren't necessarily the first coins struck. Thus, ultimately NGC devised a logical and more appropriate alternative designation with their "Early Releases" label.
    While they earn no point premiums or otherwise, I understand why some collectors see some desire for these labels. Whether just for something other than plain brown, or to know that the coin hasn't been sitting in a drawer exposed to who knows what kind of environment for 10 years or more - one knows that the coin was encapsulated within 30 days of its release, and is generally more protected from harm -- especially compared to cellophane packaging like in some annual Mint Sets.
    That said, I truly don't understand the distinction nor the purpose that NGC is attempting to make by offering the "First Releases" label.
    http://www.ngccoin.com/services/firstreleases.aspx
    In their own words, NGC indicates that there is no different process to obtain the label apart from the Early Releases label. Further, their FAQs also indicate that for the pop report/census, First Releases AND Releases will be counted together with one total, making them virtually impossible to distinguish down the road.
    To add more confusion to the matter, it is not as if NGC has decided that as of XX/XX/XXXX date, "First Releases" will replace the "Early Releases" designation, perhaps using similar logic to their previous statement about Early Releases -- that they simply believe the terminology more accurately reflects the 30-day window from release to receipt by NGC. Had they done this, I would find it more palatable.
    Instead, I submit that by creating two labels with identical requirements, virtually identical terminology, remarkably similar label appearance, that all NGC has done is create CONFUSION. While experienced collectors may fully understand that the labels are essentially interchangeable, my concern is that many newer or inexperienced collectors will not have such insight, and may be taken in by marketing of dealers or even casual sellers, whether on eBay or elsewhere, and may pay a higher premium for something that is ultimately interchangeable.
    I rhetorically pose the question: Does anyone foresee themselves or even hoards of collectors re-submitting their NGC Early Releases coins to NGC to obtain "First Releases" labels as a re-holder? Similarly, for collectors who DO have Early Releases labels as a matter of course, I pose the question: Do you plan to add First Releases to your collections going forward, or will you stick to the Early Releases designation? That last part is not so rhetorical. While I welcome private replies, I also invite fellow collectors to post entries and commentaries about their feelings of the lack of distinction and use (or lack of use) of the new label option going forward. While I would surely like to know how other collectors feel about the new label, I suspect I am not alone in the matter, and that a great many collectors are scratching their heads wondering how others feel, and sort of waiting to see what the masses are doing.
    I know that NGC and other grading companies are not just providing a service to collectors, but are ultimately in the marketing business and therefore try to create new "buzz" when they can with special labels -- and that the labels come at a premium price, netting NGC even just a couple extra dollars per coin, which I imagine adds up to an unthinkably high sum annually.
    I also confess that when given the option, I've opted for the Early Releases designation on my bullion coins in the past, and only recently have bought some Commemorative coins on the secondary market with Early Release labels, primarily because I either found them for the same price from a dealer compared to another dealer (or even compared to the U.S. Mint's release price), or the price differential was so negligible it seemed harmless - like $1.00, less than if I submitted it for NGC grading on my own.
    Am I a hypocrite? I'd like to think not. I am not opposed to all special labels. Remember my "teaser" when I started this entry, asking if this was "One too many?!"
    In essence, I am not opposed to the Early Release labels entirely - though I am not hung up on them either. If I can get a deal on a brown label coin that fills a spot on one my sets and it's a plain label, and the price differential is more than $1-$2, I'll take the brown label. I am NOT willing to spend $10, $20, $50, $100 or more for a coin (or a set of coins) just to get the Early Releases label for a comparably graded coin. In fact, sometimes the price difference might allow me to buy a Proof/MS70 coin in a plain label vs. a Proof/MS69 in a special label. All things being equal, I'll take the higher graded coin in a heartbeat -- no two ways about it. I wonder if I am alone on this issue.... Time will tell if I hear from any of you about this piece.
    Ultimately, why do I buy even Early Releases labels? Well, some SMALL part of me has watched sales and prices of auctions, eBay sales, and other dealer web sites. From what I've observed, the modest grading premium for the "Modern Special" tier is more than recouped by the selling price of what the coins in the Early Release labels or the "First Strike" labels from PCGS seem to fetch, compared to their plain label counterparts.
    However, back to the original reason for my entry today. I am opposed to what I think is ultimately just a marketing ploy and money-maker from NGC with its "First Releases" label. I submit that it offers no newly added value to collectors, and in fact, offers confusion instead.
    First Releases vs. Early Releases are something that I simply won't be pursuing. Now, that is not to say that if I found a dealer who had a First Releases coin for the same price as a Brown Label coin in the same grade, that I wouldn't buy it. If a dealer had the same coin in Early Releases, I'd opt for that instead -- especially if the new First Releases was a higher price point than Early Releases. If they were all priced equally, I would stick with Early Releases -- it's been around longer, and it's FAMILIAR to NGC Coin Collectors, and ultimately it's a known commodity.
    When getting my own coins graded, I am going to stick with Early Releases as well. I don't find the First Releases label appealing. I rhetorically wonder if dealers and collectors alike shun the new "First Releases" designation, if it will ultimately vanish?
    Ultimately, NGC's labels are driven by market desire and response. I am curious how many of us will speak with our wallets, checkbooks and credit cards and specifically AVOID the First Releases label, and stick with Early Releases, that is, until and unless NGC replaces one with the other entirely. Otherwise, I stick with my opinion that the two labels simultaneously are confusing, perhaps even a bit redundant, though not precisely, I am just finding myself lacking for a better word.
    Since this has already gotten a bit long-winded, I am

  17. BULLY
    A rhetorical ethical dilemma for the ages: What would you do if you found a similar hoard of ancient gold and silver coins-- or anything of similar value-- on the job? What would you do with such a thing that nobody even knew was there, and something that hasn't been seen in a millenium or two?
    I caught this headline on AOL Welcome page when checking my email tonight. It certainly does beg the eternal ethical dilemma I pose above.
    It also makes me green with envy: Why have I never worked somewhere like that?
    The closest I come to finding such treasures is scouring pocket change, and getting rolls of coins (NOT NEW ONES) from my financial institution $25, $50 or $100 and perhaps while watching TV or on a rainy day, scouring the rolls for anything interesting, whether it be a unique variety, year, mintmark -- or these days more than ever, those 1964 and earlier SILVER COINS!
    Here's the link to the story:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/11/tanja-hols-janitor-coins_n_1142049.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk2%7C119290
    For those who prefer to read it right here, I've pasted it below, giving full credit to the Huffington Post for the story (just an FYI -- there's also a video at the link above):
    "Library janitor or Indiana Jones?
    Tanja Höls, a custodian at the Passau state library in Germany, stumbled upon a box full of coins while on the job last week. Turns out, those coins are thousands of years old and could be worth millions.
    "The box itself was fairly unspectacular, it looked like a big jewlery box, with lots of little drawers inside," she told The Local.
    When she told her bosses at the library, they were stunned. The library believes that the collection likely belonged to local prince-bishops, who hid the treasure in the library in the early 19th century to avoid paying taxes.
    The gold and silver coins can be traced to ancient Rome, Greece and Byzantine, according to the German Herald.
    Höls, who had walked by the unassuming box many times before daring to open up, will be rewarded for her curiosity. A spokesman for the library told Der Spiegel that "she was very honest, a brilliant historian and a great detective. We are certainly going to promote her to the curating side of the museum and we're discussing a suitable reward for her.""

  18. BULLY
    I went through roll after roll of Kennedys -- nada.
    So often, my financial institution doesn't even HAVE Kennedy half dollars. During one of my rare visits, they actually had some rolls -- over $200 worth. So, I decided to buy every last roll they had, at $10 per roll as most of you know. I figure I go through them, and whatever I find, great. Whatever is useless to me, I can either spend, or just re-deposit, it is money after all.
    Well, after a week, I've finally gotten around to going through the the nearly 25 rolls of half dollars. The most exciting thing I found (and it's not TOO exciting), was one roll which consisted of about half bi-centennial halves. OOOH. I did keep them, because they're just something different.
    I did also find one (count them ONE) really nice specimen of a year 2000 coin, D mint mark I believe that was SO fresh and bright I swear it had to have been broken out of a mint-set, or was so fresh out of a mint roll, barely a contact mark. Also, VERY bright that it seems proof-like at a glance. So, I kept that one aside just because of that surprising quality of the coin from circulation.
    The rest? Back to the credit union they go and I guess a bill gets paid instead. What a let down that I didn't find a single piece of silver, not even the 40% silver pieces. I usually get more lucky than this.
    However, these rolls looked to have been searched insofar as the rolls almost seemed to have been "organized" by someone before me, with the rolls put together by years, 1985, 2000, 1974, etc.
    I guess I can't ALWAYS get so lucky as to get one roll out of two or three that's a roll of pure silver halves. That was brilliant! Maybe someday I'll get that lucky again, but I have a lot more coins to search I think before that happens again.
    Happy hunting to everyone.
  19. BULLY
    I am with you -- at least partly.
    Considering that most of us have not even seen the new Lincoln Cents in circulation, maybe not at all because they sold out at the Mint and cost a fortune on eBay, I personally like the idea of MILLIONS of coin collectors "buying out" the supply of coins.
    However, I am not interested currently in the 2009 nickel, nor the dime. I want those Lincoln Cent rolls and bags released -- and now!
    It doesn't hurt that they are also the least expensive thing making it easy to buy many at my bank or credit union. Of course I don't want to buy TOO many, because while I can just return them, if I get old rolls, I will of course be tempted to want to through them and see if there is anything of any significant worth. A lucky wartime cent? A steel cent? An elusive 1919 VDB? You just never know. With say even $25 in cents, that's a lot to search, especially for the value of the cents I am more likely to find (say a common date wheat or what-have-you).
    Regardless, I'd like to say: I VOTE YES! YES to cleaning out current supplies of LINCOLN CENTS in particular.
    If every person who collected State Quarters alone (estimated to be 100 to 150 million Americans) went to their financial institutions and got $5, $10, $25 or more in cents, I can see locals running out RIGHT QUICK and the need FINALLY for them to contact the Federal Reserve Banks to get the new Lincolns.
    OR...Maybe we should contact our U.S. Senators like the school teacher in Utah who got FREEBIES from Orrin Hatch's office? (see my previous Journal entry on the subject) What if we paid for ours? HA!
    What if the U.S. Mint just wrapped more and sold them to the public online? If they have so many, why the heck not?

  20. BULLY
    Ok, here is a grown man saying that, but it REALLY is numismatic related, REALLY...it is! I swear!
    If anyone is curious, I put the coin in a Signature Set called Milestones, since it was celebrating Barbie's 50th Anniversary. That said, I have a couple photos included, but you can see pretty sharp image of my specific coin with the certification number in "Verify NGC Certification" tool.
    The coin achieved a proud PF70UC from NGC, who graded the coin because it was in fact a Perth Mint colorization process, not an after-market job. In fact, if I am not mistaken, the color is "Barbie Pink" or something like that and was part of the coin approval with Mattel when working with the Perth Mint to produce it.
    Here's a preview... (Ha, I fooled you, it's just the box). See more of Barbie in my Signature Set, then at the NGC Certification Lookup.

  21. BULLY
    Does this fall into the "Strange But True" category of news stories?
    Well, after a recent posting, I've been asked to share the story. For those who are ANA members and who subscribe to The Numismatist (the official publication of the ANA), you may have seen this already in the June 2009 issue, p. 36, bottom left, entitled "Penny Pinching."
    However, for those who have not yet heard the story, or who are not ANA members, I am reproducing the article here, giving due credit to the ANA, the Numismatist (June 2009), and the U.S. Mint for the Photo in the article:
    Penny Pinching
    [Pleasant Grove, UT]
    "Thanks to the efforts of first grade teacher Shirley Stevenson and U.S. Senator Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), students at Central Elementary in Pleasant Grove were among the first people in Utah to receive the new Lincoln cent. Teacher wanted to celebrate the 200th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln's birth by giving each of its 530 students one of the new issues, but it seemed none of the local banks had them.
    Stevenson learned that the coins weren't scheduled to be shipped to Utah because the state had a surplus of cents. She sought help from Capitol Hill and sent a letter to Hatch, explaining her plight. One of the Senator's aides phoned to tell her that Hatch had received her letter, shipped the cents to Salt Lake City, and arranged for them to be delivered to the school."
    Take from this story what ye will.
    My two cents: I sure wish numismatists got this sort of treatment! Perhaps the answer is to contact our Member of Congress and/or U.S. Senator(s) and describe our "plight." They are selling $1 of cents on eBay after all for $50-$120 - that sounds like plight to me. What's a collector to do? Perhaps a Senator could get the Mint to issue more of the two-coin sets or just get them sent to banks?
    Hmmm!
    Should we ALL perhaps contact ALL of our Senators like this woman did? Should we even reference the story so they can all blame Senator Hatch for the influx of inquiries about Lincoln Cents?
    Health care/schmealth care. War/schmar. Civil liberties? who cares. Jobs? Big woo. Supreme Court? Slow as molasses. BUT, some elementary school in Utah needs 530 Lincoln cents and SEND IN THE NATIONAL GUARD.
    Anyone else wonder how much that REALLY cost the taxpayers? I suspect it was A LITTLE MORE that $5.30. Sure, this was a "fluff" piece in a Numismatic publication, probably meant to inspire. It inspired me alright. It inspired me to try to figure a way to get the same treatment.
    Did those kids even KEEP the cents? Makes you wonder!
    Stepping off soap box now.

  22. BULLY
    First and last the same year, does that get us more for our money?
    In 2008, I had a decision to make, I could afford only one set of Gold Buffalo coins, Proof, or Mint State -- I opted for Mint State.
    I was just reading on the USMint.gov web site the at the following link:
    <a href="http://https://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?langId=-1&amp;>https://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?langId=-1&amp;storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&identifier=0500
    "American Buffalo 24K Gold Coins
     
    Production of United States Mint 2009 American Buffalo Gold Proof Coins has been delayed because of the limited availability of 24-karat gold blanks. The 2009 American Buffalo One-ounce Gold Proof Coin is scheduled to go on sale in the second half of the 2009 calendar year after an acceptable inventory of 24-karat gold blanks can be acquired. The release date, once established, will be posted to the 2009 Scheduled Products Listing.
    As a result of the numismatic product portfolio analysis conducted last fall, beginning in 2009, American Buffalo Gold Proof fractional coins and the four-coin set are no longer available. Additionally, the United States Mint will no longer offer American Buffalo Gold Uncirculated Coins."
     
    Notice the key phrase at the end?
    The United States Mint will NO LONGER OFFER American Buffalo Gold Uncirculated Coins. Even last year when they offered them for the first time, there were rumors, but for last year to to be a first AND last year, and I grabbed a complete set in MS70 -- woo hoo! I was also fortunate insofar as I got the set when gold was down into the $800/oz range, off it's highs of when it was topping $1,000. I was in a mood to buy gold, and in retrospect I am glad I did, what I could anyway.
    All I am missing, however, to complete my Registry Set is the 1oz MS coins from prior years. Previously, I collected them in the Proof versions. Perhaps I might sell a PF or two and fill in a gap or two in to complete the MS Set, or perhaps that's foolhardy.
    However, the values from Numismedia on the Mint State Set seemed to jump as if these were some super sub-set of the Gold Buffalo, with a double-asterisk.
    Anyone else notice this, or am I just WAY behind the times?
    Mike B.
  23. BULLY
    What's up with that? It's not just the P.R. Quarters that are hard to get either. More like impossible for that matter.
    I saw someone write that in another part of the country, they couldn't get Puerto Rico territorial quarters. I'm here to tell you the problem is widespread.
    I have a family member (an in-law) who works in a bank, and ALL through the program, she got me FOUR rolls of each quarter (two for me, one for my mother, one for my grandmother, and a couple dollars worth of loose ones for Quarter Maps/Albums) for me and the family. Well, I got the same for DC, I am getting Guam, but for Puerto Rico, arguably what I might consider one of the more desirable territories, I got ONE roll, and some loose ones.
    First, there were no (and still aren't) any Lincoln Cents for 2009. Sure, tease us with them, but don't release any to the public, unless you live in Utah and you write a letter to Orrin Hatch (go ahead, Google the story). It may actually even have been in a numismatic publication recently.
    I digress.
    No one carries the new Native American Dollar with the redesigned reverse of the Sacagawea for 2009. All these changes, but nothing at any bank. Not sold out - just never had them, or had so few, not enough to go around (like Puerto Rico).
    It seems they are focusing on the Presidential Dollars, or so I am told. Forest/Trees?
    I'm to the point that I've started asking relatives in other (multiple) parts of the country to check with banks and credit unions there to see, and offering to reimburse postage and of course cost, just to get my hands on the items at as close to face value as I can.
    If I end up with more than one, I can suggest they return the money to the bank -- it is money after all, and save the postage and shipping hassle.
    Meanwhile, I am saving a few of the coins I did get for 2009, a Presidential Dollar or two, a Sacagawea or two, some Territorial Quarters because another family member just had a baby. I got a cute Belleek Piggy Bank, and I want to include coins from the year of birth. If I wasn't including such a pretty Belleek bank as a gift already, I might be more generous with the coin like a Silver Eagle (if we could get those!) or something, but these will do I think.
    I just checked, and even the overpriced rolls at USMINT.gov (for Puerto Rico) at $32.95 per roll are also SOLD OUT. Oy!
  24. BULLY
    But some of the new sets that were added allowed me to lower (or increase) my ranking, depending how you look at it, from 65th, now to 63rd.
    I gained a couple thousand points in the process and was delighted to display some coins that I've had for a while that I was never really able to show unless I took the time to create one of the Signature Sets.
    For some, I had photos. For many, unfortunately, I did not. As with many of my U.S. sets, the sets are scattered, in that I dabbled a little with them, so I have pieces/parts of the collections. However, some individual coins earned me hundreds of points, even 500 or more each for a 69 grade, so no arguments from me.
    I hope NGC will continue to add more sets, and I hope we will continue to tell them which sets we'd like to see added, so they know. It seems that whenever they add a set, it isn't long before a number of people create competitive sets in the category. While sometimes it's nice to be "Number One" for a time, it's also nice to know that I'm not alone collecting something, and that I didn't waste NGC's time lobbying for a particular set to be added.
    They've been adding things in Australia. Personally I'd like to see more of those. Perhaps the GOLD Kangaroo, even the 1/20 oz. .9999 or various denominations (I assume it comes in larger sizes, though admittedly I am less familiar with the series than I could be), made going back to AT LEAST 1991 with some varieties like that Grey Kangaroo, the Common Wallaroo, just plain Australia Kangaroo.
    Or perhaps I'd like to see something like the Australian Nugget added, a $50 gold piece that looks something like this attachment. Sorry it's small, but here in the Journals file size is limited to under 75k.

  25. BULLY
    What am I talking about? Has anyone ever HEARD of Tuvalu?
    Or does anyone know that the Perth Mint in Australia produces many coins for Tuvalu?
    Well, this is the 50th Anniversary of BARBIE! Tuvalu, in coordination with the Perth Mint and even Mattel, issued an official coin in honor of this milestone, with Barbie looking as she originally did.
    The coin is colorized by the Perth Mint (not after market), in a color specified and as I understand it, patented by Mattel or something like that, they are limited editions, have special mint packaging, the whole deal. H.M. Queen Elizabeth II graces the obverse. Barbie has come a long way from Ken and even her dream house in Malibu to be sharing a silver bullion coin with Queen Elizabeth!
    I haven't gotten my coin just yet, but I purchased it, already graded in PF70 Ultra Cameo by NGC.
    Somehow, I don't think there is a competitive set for these coins. Why is that?
    For the record, I am comfortable enough in my manhood to admit that I thought Barbie's 50th was JUST TOO FUN to NOT miss the chance of getting the coin in such limited edition (20,000 worldwide). Sure, other things are more limited than that, but still, it's a funky item, no?).
    Check out The Perth Mint and a sneak a peek at the Barbie coin here:
    http://www.perthmint.com.au/catalogue/barb50.aspx