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BULLY

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Journal Entries posted by BULLY

  1. BULLY
    Regarding Registered Mail getting lost
    While I personally haven't had Registered Mail get lost, I have heard stories from my local Postmaster where at least three times in the last month or two where Registered Mail has been lost. Of course the customers who shipped the items look to the local Postmaster for DAILY updates, but of course that discounts that the items made it out of that office the same day they were shipped. Supposedly, of course, the US Post Office tells us that the items are locked, in a pouch every step of the way, handed off, etc., which is why it takes longer, and thus is THE MOST SECURE WAY to send valuables.
    In fact, my coin insurance policy requires me, if I don't want to purchase postal insurance, to use Registered Mail - so I can save money on mailing costs there with Registered Mail since I am paying premiums for the coverage already. That said, it seems that if there are three recent incidents that I've heard of, and now you're having a problem -- it makes one wonder: How secure is Registered Mail, truly?
    I mean, I appreciate that the USPS is generally very efficient for reasonable prices compared to other carriers - but they still lack the regular tracking methods such as offered by FedEx and UPS that show a package every step of the way, just just upon acceptance and delivery (and even acceptance takes a good 24 hours to show, and delivery sometimes takes a while to update too).
    Still, patience may be a virtue -- it's hard to say where the package is. Considering the time that has passed for yours, if you have the Registered Mail number, it may not hurt to inquire at USPS.com about the item. The USPS has a system where they are, in some cases, able to see tracking data not visible to the general public.
    I sent a package via Registered Mail to FL (from CT) and it arrived in two days I think? Considering how slow it is SUPPOSED to be, I was floored. Of course the tracking data didn't appear until well after it was delivered, but that's the USPS at it's best or worst.
  2. BULLY
    Are there such coincidences? Hmmmm.
    You know, that is SOOO remarkable.
    Living many miles away, I got a coin that sounded different when I emptied my pocket -- and I know that sound -- it's SILVER. Sure enough, it was a 1964 Washington Quarter!
    What are the chances that we'd both get one of those in the same week?
    Wow!
    It's been a while since I got one too -- usually I am more likely to get a silver Kennedy Half (mostly because I go get ROLLS of half dollars from the bank and search them for silvers or even the 40% silver ones), and then just either spend the rest, use them as partial tips in restaurants, or return them -- they are money after all.
    Then, I roll the rest -- they are SILVER after all, nabbed for face value! How do you go wrong?!?! I can't TRULY bear the idea of melting handsome Kennedy coins, but if silver ever rose again to the 1980 level, I'd be melting coins like crazy.
    Going back to pre-Y2K scare, I remember silver was relatively cheap, and I bought bags of relatively inexpensive 90% (coin-silver) coins for what was at the time probably expensive, but in retrospect seems like a super-bargain. The receipt is with the bags of coins, which weigh several pounds each in one of my safe deposit boxes, but basically we're talking a few pounds of silver each, and I admit I picked out a few coins which were BLATANTLY worth more than their melt value, a few sharper Morgans and Franklin Halves, even a sharp Kennedy Half or two from 1964.
    Mostly though, the coins are really better for melt I suspect, even at today's prices I would do far better than what I paid.
    However, I'd like to see silver much higher before I said farewell to coins which are truly treasures - I mean there are such old beauties in there, barber halves, quarters, etc. Mercury and Roosevelt Times, Washington Quarters, the works. I hate to destroy anything numismatic, but if the price is right, how can I resist?
    In the meantime, I will treasure hunt for SILVER with the rest of them!
  3. BULLY
    Apparently they are in at least some shows, the official auctioneer of the ANA...
    So, the big question is this: Has anyone here consigned coins with them to sell? And if so, how has your experience been?
    Also, I'll ask generally what KINDS of coins did you sell? Was it all OLDER coins like pre-1900 gold and silver, is it primarily PCGS or NGC too?
    Does ANACS hold any place? Older ANACS to be precise...
    Are moderns of any kind a factor?
    Were bullion items of any interest? Even special issue bullion items like 20th Anniversary Silver or Gold Eagles (2006), such as the sets with the Reverse Proofs?
    Did State Quarters make any appearances, or is that laughable?
    Is is strictly a graded coin market in these auctions, or do OGP coins have a place, such as Legacy Sets, Proof Sets, GSA items, Silver PREMIER Sets, things like that? Coin and Currency Sets? Anything of that ilk?
    I realize I will have to start scouring the sales from past auctions, but I am curious first:
    1. If anyone has had any experiences with this organization, for better or for worse. Ideally, tell me privately, unless you feel compelled to tell the group constructively because you think the group my benefit, but in such a way that we are not slandering or libeling (I forget which legal term applies) an organization which may be fairly respected in the business.
    2. If you've done business, what kinds of items did you sell?
    3. If you sold, how did it work? I read their FAQs, which all seemed geared toward BUYERS, not sellers, so that wasn't very helpful. What does it cost a SELLER to consign to Bowers and Morena? So, if you sold, did selling with them eat your costs?
    4. Were you pleased/displeased?
    5. Did you get what you hoped?
    6. Was the company responsive to you?
    7. Did they live up to their promises?
    8. Did you get paid when promised?
    9. What happened to unsold items?
    10. Did you get to select WHICH auction/even items would be listed/sold at?
    11. Was a live person easy to reach? How was customer service as a seller?
    12. Also, for the buyers out there, how has your experience been if you've dealt with Bowers and Morena auctions? Were the things you bought ridiculously cheap or moderately priced? Expensive?
  4. BULLY
    ...or for those who have recently talked about so-called "body-bagged" coins.
    Without getting into all the details, I know I've traded emails with some people about the services offered by NCS, part of the the Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) and therefore NGC's sister company.
    The idea where I suggest that sometimes, particularly when it comes to coins which may be particularly valuable specimens (gold) or unique varieties, or have low populations or low mintages, it may be worthwhile to submit coins to NCS FIRST rather than submitting a coin to NGC, only to get it returned as a no-graded, then submitting it to NCS (which, if they still do the same thing, may offer you a discount of a few dollars if you submit the no-grade note from NGC).
    What makes submitting to NCS directly better? Well, you can save paying QUADRUPLE postage -- how's that?
    1. By submitting a coin to NCS first, you have NCS consider the coin. If it is something that is not problematic, they will give it to NGC for grading at the appropriate tier (I think, and you can check with NCS to be sure, but I also believe that minimum # coin requirements may also be waived to get the more economical tiers).
    2. If a coin is problematic, you can instruct NCS to slab consider the coin for conservation (not all coins can be conserved, sometimes it could make a coin worse -- that's why they are the experts).
    3. With problem coins, you can instruct them to either provide a slab with just a "Genuine" holder or a "Details Grade" which isn't numeric such as AU 50, but instead would be like AU-Details and would note the problem, such as Improperly Cleaned, Artificial Toning, or what-have-you.
    4. Ideally, NCS tried to return your NGC and NCS coins together, saving you on postage. This way, you don't pay to ship to and from NGC, then to pay again to ship to and from NCS. You pay just once -- a significant savings on postage alone.
    5. Sure, you get some increased expense there because of the conservation fees (if any) or even the fees just to consider the coin, but double the postage may just have covered that anyway!
    6. On top of that, if it was a trouble-free coin that you got conserved, your coin might actually UP-GRADE with NGC, a nice bonus!
    7. Even if it grades the same, it may have significantly improved eye appeal.
    8. For problem coins, if it's precious in particular (for any of the reasons I noted above (or for other reasons you may think of!), you have the added benefit that NCS will encapsulate your coin in a holder that will preserve the coin for future generations, and authenticate it as genuine, or even assign a general "details grade" describing the overall condition. For very rare coins, this could be valuable anyway.
    9. Sidebar: NCS coins are among those which are allowed to be listed for sale as "certified coins" on eBay. While I imagine that problem coins will not command the same premiums, I know if I wanted a coin, I would be more inclined to purchase an NCS encapsulated coin rather than a rare coin "raw" for fear that it is a problem coin. Maybe that's just me because I've been burned before, and I've had relatively good luck with NCS.
    10. NCS also has that new "Modern Tier" where coins after a certain year (I want to say 1970 or so) so like Ike Dollars can be submitted in OGP and for one nominal price, they will conserve the coin, send it to NGC and NGC will encapsulate it -- badda bing, badda boom! Nice way to upgrade a coin that may be ugly or have gotten some spotting over the last few decades, etc! It's the DEAL OF A DECADE, and personally, I was very upset when it first came out because I had recently (just before the new tier was launched) submitted a LOT of Ike Dollars for grading to NGC -- and I know I could have gotten better grades had I submitted them to NCS first, all for a few dollars more.
    Well, I have a lot more Ikes around, so that's a "Someday" thing.
    Lastly, don't take my word for ANY of this. My suggestion is to read about NCS and the services they offer.
    The NCS newsletter is sent electronically monthly, much like the nGC newsletter.
    http://www.ncscoin.com/news/enews/2009/March/article2.asp
    Check it out - they show sample coins, have articles, and answer some FAQs.
    It's the best way to understand their services before jumping in head first. It's easy to go overboard with NCS, so it may pay to be selective with what you send, unless you have bottomless funds.
    Just my 2cents.
  5. BULLY

    I like Ike too

    By BULLY,

    The jack of all trades, master of none (or very few).
    In seeing the I like Ike reference, it reminded me that my Ike Proof collection is one of the VERY few Registry Sets that I have actually completed at 100% -- with a couple of other Ike Proof Registry Sets at 90% completion rates.
    I never got an elusive PF70 Ike, but as the previous author indicates, the PF69 grades UC (or in one case for me, CA), are reasonably affordable coins to complete a set, the second shortest dollar series we've got.
    It's sort of nice to be able to complete something though, even if it's not perfect -- sometimes ALMOST perfect feels pretty good too!
    I vote for Ike!

  6. BULLY
    Increase?
    Good question.
    My initial answer would have been no, and that many people won't submit the coins to NCS anyway.
    What I find to be a twist in how this question was posed is that the submissions included coins that were either in NGC holders already (which seems to me that they SHOULD BE subject to the NGC Guarantee), or were in original government rolls/packaging.
    Now, depending on the OGP, damage can occur. I don't know what it was, but the reality is that much OGP was not designed for long term storage, and can leach problem substances or can generally discolor coins. It seems counter-intuitive, but it's true. The old mylar holders from mint sets, even the proof sets are really not archival quality.
    I've submitted U.S. Treasury Rolls of American Silver Eagles for instance, and of 40 coins (two rolls), had one coin be returned as a "no-grade" which seems unthinkable, but it happened. OK, it's still an ounce of silver bullion, but give me a break, it was a brand new roll.
    Do I think NGC makes it up? I'd like to think not. However, I do come back to those coins mentioned that were ALREADY in NGC holders. Why were they returned as no-grade coins, and why were they not subject to NGC's guarantee?
    http://www.ngccoin.com/legal.asp
    (Then Scroll Down)
    Also note that there was an update that the guarantee now also applies to copper coins.
    http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?NewsletterNewsArticleID=295
    That said, I have some thoughts about NCS in general.
    For coins that MIGHT even end up as no-grades: Submit them to NCS first. This saves in a couple of ways:
    1. It saves on quadrupling postage (to and from NGC, then to and from NCS again).
    2. Submitting to NCS first allows NCS to consider the coin, if it's OK, they may conserve it (which may get you an even higher grade).
    3. Assuming it's OK, whether or not NCS conserves the coin, the coin is graded by NGC.
    4. If the coin is problematic, your instructions at the time of submission tell NCS whether you would like the coin encapsulated, and if so, how: simply as "genuine" or with a "details grade" like "AU - Details". I believe on either holder, they notate the problem of the coin (such as "improperly cleaned"), though I am not certain if that only applies to details graded coins.
    5. Then, even your problem coins are encapsulated and preserved for future generations, at a savings compared to having paid NGC first, then NCS (much lest the postage to and from each). This is especially handy for coins that may be particularly precious in your collection or may be particularly valuable or rare, despite their condition, either by low mintages, gold content, etc.
    I can't say that I've seen an increase in "no-grade" returns from NGC, but I have seen some odd things.
    I also suggest people be aware of the NGC guarantee -- it's there for a reason.
  7. BULLY

    Moving up in ranks

    By BULLY,

    Jack of all trades, master of none (or few anyway)
    Well, as of today, this week I had moved up in the overall rankings from 73rd position to 69th.
    For fun, I checked to see what kind of scores there were between me and the top rankings, and they are staggering. However, the difference in scores between me and say the "Top 50" are not so intimidating. So, long ago I think my goals were to get to the Top 100, then the top 75, and now I will aim for the Top 50.
    For the most part, I think it's a matter of getting some more coins graded, getting more coins that I have graded LOADED into the NGC Registry, and in some cases, getting some key coins from old ANACS holders crossover graded. Some particular ones that will add some value and points I think, like a $20 St Gaudens, an old $1 Indian Princess Gold Dollar, and some old Morgans, things of that nature which will help boost my score. Time will tell of course, but I am hopeful.
    I still need to get more organized and get more of what I have loaded into the Registry, as well as into my personal database, for insurance purposes, so that slows me down a little.
    In the meantime, I am adding a few coins here and there, some extra sets where I can pick up a few points.
    Of course, it makes me appear a bit unfocused in some cases, I have lots of one coin, but not complete sets and so on.
    There are a few examples where I am more focused though, such as Ike Dollars, SBA Dollars, Sacagawea Proofs, Australian Lunars coins, Silver American Eagles (mint state moreso, could use some more work on the proof side). Even where I've focused, I could use some upgraded in many cases, but at least I've completed some sets -- sans the most recent issues in many cases, which is easily remedied, and which I plan to deal with as soon as possible. If not on my own, perhaps as requests for birthday presents since they're pretty specific "fill in the blank" items with prices that I can specify for folks not to go over.
    Alas though, being in that top 100, top 75 or even if I make it to the top 50 -- gets me nothing as far as accolades or awards. Which makes me think perhaps I should divest some pieces, and focus more on improving some particular sets where I have a chance of winning Registry Set awards from NGC. Hmmmm.
    That's a chapter I am not sure I am ready to do just yet. Selling off parts of my collection I mean. I won't rule it out though.
    For now, here's a photo of THE hard to find coin of the day!

  8. BULLY
    As previously mentioned by another author, and in another journal entry of mine, the Lincoln Cent roll pair is sold out at the Mint's web site.
    As the other author, I am SHOCKED by this. I mean, considering these are not making their way to banks at all, I can't believe that the Mint is not marketing more of these for sale, I mean seriously -- they are a HUGE mark-up item for them, charging $8.95 for two rolls of 50 cents each, one each for P&D.
    That said, there WAS a limit of 5 per household no less, and I am kicking myself because from what I heard, I tried to buy them the very day after they sold out. I suspect it was because people grabbed them along with the Braille Commemorative Silver Dollar coins for a combined shipping order -- just a hunch anyway.
    That said: Are there any lucky people on here who got their five sets (or even two or more) who would be willing to part with ONE set?
    I know I've seen them selling on eBay for outrageous prices, and frankly, I am not willing to pay that, I'll say that upfront. I am willing to pay a reasonable premium over the $8.95 selling costs, along with the cost of any packing materials and shipping of course.
    I'd also consider a trade of sorts, incentive of a coin from me which may be of interest to modern PROOF Lincoln Cent collectors. I happen to have a bunch of 2001 Lincoln Cents, graded by NGC as PF69 RD Ultra Cameo. It doesn't offer a lot of Registry Points (3) but Numismedia currently lists it at $17.50 -- a bargain compared to the price of grading (when you consider shipping to and from NGC) and the cost of breaking it out of the original proof set. Also, the PCGS online price guide lists the coin at $24 - probably more realistic for what's involved in getting it. Just food for thought if you may happen to have a spare P&D U.S. Mint Birthplace Lincoln Roll set and perhaps a hole in your collection/Registry Set that you want to fill.
    If you want to list them on eBay for me to buy (such as a "Buy it Now" item), that is perfectly cool too.
    I just can't get the coins from local banks or credit unions, and I hate the fact that I missed out on the pair -- I never do that. I get almost everything in sets of TWO from the Mint, new commemoratives, new rolls (state quarters, presidential dollars, state and territorial quarter bags, etc.), all through the program. Now, I miss this Lincoln Cent -- I'm not sure if I am more angry that I missed it, or that the Mint doesn't have enough to go around!
    At any rate, I would love to get a pair of the rolls (P&D) at a reasonble price, offering you a fair profit and covering your costs, if there is anyone who got them, and who may be willing to part with ONE set even.
    Needless to say, I'll be watching the other cent rolls MUCH more closely. I wish they had a subscription for those rolls!

  9. BULLY
    You aren't the only one who has been burned
    I saw the previous posting about buying raw coins on eBay, and even specifically asking the sellers if the coins had been cleaned. Now, the first seller adamantly saying NO strikes me as a refund waiting to happen, at least in accordance with ANA guidelines, if the seller is an ANA member.
    The second seller claiming ignorance since the coin was part of a large estate strikes me as being "Reagan-esque" during his questioning when the answer of the day was "I don't recall." Sure, it MIGHT be an honest answer, or it might be a way to pass the buck and deny knowledge of something that he/she recognizes, or may even know to be true (i.e. a coin that was returned by NGC as cleaned and then just sold as raw to an unsuspecting buyer).
    I'd like to THINK that people wouldn't do that, but my gut tells ne that people would even break coins out of NCS slabs that identify problem coins to sell them as raw because they may fetch a higher price than buying a known problem.
    PERSONALLY: This is why I avoid buying raw coins as a rule. I've been burned in the past too. I have purchased raw coins, and had them turn out just fine. I've had others where I purchased them and had similar problems as WKF described, thus making me gun-shy when it comes to buying raw coins on eBay or elsewhere, unless the price is basically melt value, or it's a modern coin in sealed Original Mint Packaging (like Mint/Proof Sets or something) where tampering is unlikely or basically impossible.
    Even single encapsulated coins make me uneasy, because there are plenty of dealers who may submit their coins to NGC or PCGS, get all the 69 and 70 grade coins, and have NGC reeturn to them any coins which don't make the minimum 69 grade. Then, those coins can go right back into a capsule, to be sold as being in the "original government packaging" and while the dealer will know very well that you'll never get anything higher than a 68 grade, you are hoping that you have the chance of more -- and you're wrong.
    Best options to me? Submit coins that you've purchased yourself (from the Mint I mean) or buy coins graded and certified by NGC or PCGS in tamper evident holders, particularly these new ones that are more sophisticated every day.
  10. BULLY
    I'm in Connecticut, so presumably we have a different Federal Reserve Bank than Dallas.
    I also deal with a credit union primarily, so I am not sure who their supplier is, but they actually told me "why don't you try a commercial bank."
    Needless to say, I am composing a complaint letter to the credit union's advisory board expressing my concern that not only a teller, but a representative (in writing via email) would tell me to go to a commercial bank. My complaint? If I should go to a commercial bank to get something as simple as Lincoln Cents, why shouldn't I take the rest of my business from your institution there along with it? My VISA card, my debit card, my car loan (of which I only financed less than half), so it's basically a guaranteed thing for them, my deposit accounts, etc.?
    To top it off, what banks would just allow non-customers to walk in and conduct business like that. They don't even like to cash CHECKS for non-customers if the checks are DRAWN ON THEIR OWN BANK (and there is no state, in CT, or federal law requiring them to do so - I checked).
    Lastly, I checked with my mother in law, who is retired, but works part time at a local bank branch -- and they don't have them either, so it's a fruitless effort anyway. But that's beside the point.
    BOTTOM LINE: It's not just Texas!
    The elusive Lincoln Cent!
    P.S. I checked the Mint's web site today -- and the two-roll birthplace Lincoln Cent is SOLD OUT!!!!

  11. BULLY
    Not trying to sell, but in case anyone is interested...
    As a follow up to my previous entry about safes, safe deposit boxes, insurance and data retention, I included information about if you store your data on a computer, the importance of backing up that data in some way, CD, external hard drive, or what-have-you. I mean, if you have an inventory of your coins for insurance purposes, in the event of a loss, it doesn't do much good if:
    1. The computer crashes
    2. The computer is stolen along with the coins
    3. The computer burns in a fire
    4. The computer is zapped by an electrical surge
    5. Or any other possible hard drive failure
    I know I mentioned a "ClickFree" device that is available elsewhere, as well as directly from the company in a certain price range. Well, QVC or QVC.com has it available today (Tuesday 3/24/2009) as a "Today's Special Value" and they are offering a
    1. 500GB cick free (the largest yet)
    2. Free shipping
    3. 2 interest free "easy pay" payment option
    $139.80 is their price, with free shipping, and the option of two payments of $69.90. They do collect tax of course, but for those who are interested, it could be a great buy. I think this one is about $10 more than I paid for mine, but it's literally about TWICE THE HARD DRIVE SPACE. Amazing how that changes over time -- and with the free shipping, it's probably a wash, because I don't remember getting that on mine.
    There's a video to watch, specs on it, system requirements -- all on QVC.com.
    For what it's worth, in my experience with the previous version ClickFree device (and this appears to be an upgraded technology), it does exactly what they say it will -- and is really just as easy.
    So, if you're in the market for back-up storage, this may be something to consider.
    Personally, I like using the ClickFree regularly, and storing it in a fireproof safe as described in my previous entry, so in the event of a theft or fire, the data might survive. It's also readily accessible on a SMALL LIGHTWEIGHT device if you need to make an emergency exit (floods, hurricanes or other natural disasters). Taking a tower with you may not be practical, but grabbing a small external hard drive (slightly larger than a digital camera) to throw in your emergency kit may not be a bad idea.
    Aside from your collection data, imagine everything else? I always think of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast a few years ago -- and just "grab and go" items that could be taken fast, with all your financial data, personal files, etc.
    Paranoid or prepared -- the realities are out there, and one must decide for oneself. Also one must decide the best tools -- so this is just one option of course, and one part of a preparedness arsenal.

  12. BULLY
    In deference to my esteemed colleague and collector, W.K.F., I enjoy the journal entries very much. For the suggestion about NOT letting someone else keep your collection, on this topic, I have some thoughts. This is actually mostly a re-post of something I produced last year, but the details are still accurate, and may be helpful to many members.
    Before I begin, let me say that I am NOT a fan of the PVC pipe and burying coins somewhere. I suspect that a tongue-in-cheek suggestion, but in case anyone takes it too literally, there are important considerations for coin storage. For new collectors, it's important to learn how to store your coins to preserve them for the future, not just for safety/security. Let me ALSO say that I for one am not the least bit tired of the musings posted by W.K.F. -- I enjoy the journal entries greatly, so please keep them coming!
    The following was my original entry, posted in July of 2008: I may make some edits as I read through it, so forgive any editorial changes from then until now.
    Safe Deposit Boxes vs. Home Safes
    Originally Posted: 7/5/2008 10:27:54 AM
    Original Views of that entry: 480
     
    Which is safer? Pun is too obvious, sorry.
    Ok, this poster raises interesting questions which everyone should think about, but I will add some more to the mix.
    When considering safe deposit boxes, there are more things to think about than just the safety of your coins.
    Let's focus on the good and the bad of a safe deposit box:
    Positive:
    Relatively secure.
    Not subject to the average home break-in.
    If home was broken into while you were there, and if you were held at gunpoint, would you open a home safe? Safe deposit boxes in a bank have an advantage over this in that regard.
    MYTHS about safe deposit boxes:
    Contents of a safe deposit box are NOT insured by the bank, nor by the FDIC, nor, generally, by your homeowners insurance policy.
    Therefore, if you maintain a coin collection in a safe deposit box, you should secure adequate insurance coverage for your collection. If you are an ANA member, you may obtain coverage underwritten by AXA through the Hugh Wood Agency in NYC. Information is available for members at the ANA's web site www.money.org
    NOTE/UPDATE: The ANA has recently added an even less expensive membership tier, for those who are willing to receive their coin magazine in electronic format only, rather than the printed publication. So, while the insurance plan requires membership, even the new LOWER COST ANA membership includes all the benefits - including the insurance!
    Safe deposit boxes are NOT 100% secure. While rare, robberies can occur. Again, this is reason enough to have INSURANCE for your collection, EVEN IF it is in a safe deposit box. If your collection remains there, rates may be less expensive than if you travel with your collection, ship large quantities of coins (or high value coins), or if you are a dealer.
    Safe deposit boxes are THE best places to store your coin collection. - MYTH.
    Many safe deposit box rooms are HUMIDIFIED specifically because the MAJORITY of bank customers store documents (wills, birth/marriage certificates) and/or cash in them. Therefore, by humidifying the rooms, they are helping customers to preserve PAPER.
    However, for coins, HUMIDITY IS THE ENEMY. Therefore, if using or considering a bank safe deposit box, contact the bank manager, not just a teller who probably has no idea whatsoever, and find out if the bank humidifies the vault area where the safe deposit boxes are kept. Also, using moisture absorbing packets in your box may be wise for coin collectors, whether or not your bank humidifies. I've also heard of collectors storing their coins in tupperware type containers and/or ziploc bags to prevent moisture from invading.
    In his posting, WKF described a nightmare he had about his bank being chained and boxes being opened. That was just a dream, a nightmare granted. How about this real life situation...
    Imagine this scenario: You lived in New Orleans (or anywhere along the Gulf Coast) a few years ago during hurricanes Katrina and Rita, and your bank was literally UNDER WATER for days, weeks or LONGER. How would your precious and even PRICELESS coin collection have fared in that safe deposit box? Just ONE MORE REASON FOR INSURING THE CONTENTS!
    ON TO HOME SAFES:
    Home safes can provide a great deal of safety.
    According to police statistics (as quoted from a safe web site):
    "Police reports indicate most thieves want to get their jobs done as quickly as possible to reduce their chances of getting caught. Most break-ins are the smash and grab type?getting their job done in 10 minutes or less?and surprisingly between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. in the afternoon. Young males, 18 to 26, most often commit these crimes. Their goal is to be gone before police can respond to a home security system or a neighbor?s phone call."
    NOTE: I don't work for this safe company, so I have no stake in recommending it. It does make high quality safes, but you may certainly do your own research on that. For what it's worth, the folks at the ANA's insurance agency immediately new the brand and found it quite acceptable.
    Why should you buy a home safe? According to Liberty Safe, at:
    http://www.libertysafe.com/homesecurity.lasso?page=2
    The answer is:
    "When you buy a residential security or gun safe what you?re really buying is time. Time to protect your valuables from a thief. What are they looking for? You might think cash and jewelry are the top items stolen during a home burglary, but they are actually fifth on the list. Stereo equipment is fourth, followed by video equipment?grouped as TVs, VCRs and cameras. Guns are the number one items stolen in a home burglary. Can you guess what?s second? Booze and cigarettes! Go figure."
    I find that starting, guns, booze, cigarettes!
    The Liberty Safe web site goes on to say:
    "When a thief enters a home or office, the real deterrent seems to be the addition of a residential security or gun safe. Police reports indicate that when a thief sees a shiny, heavy-duty safe they generally leave without taking a thing. They're left to mumble, "Anything of value is probably in that safe and we don't have the time nor the tools, so let's just go to the next house."
    I happen to agree with the statement, assuming that they break in when no one is home.
    I read an article in The Numismatist (the official publication of the ANA) recently (recently being shortly before I originally published this journal in July of 2008). The article described a numismatist who left her collection with her parents at her childhood home. Her parents were robbed, at gunpoint, and everything was stolen, her entire collection specifically.
    It leads me to wonder, if you were HOME and were robbed at gunpoint and had such a safe in your home, would you just give over the combination to save your life or that of your family or loved ones? Food for thought. I mean it's all well and good when you ARE NOT THERE, but what if the robbery occurs when you are? I would have said that is less likely, until I read that article in The Numismatist, and clearly, it can happen.
    However, for the most part, if you have a large collection, I suspect a safe deposit box is unlikely to be able to hold it all, and therefore, I would encourage anyone to buy a safe like the earlier poster suggested. Possibly a combination of a safe deposit box and a home safe makes sense for many coll

  13. BULLY
    I agree and disagree, so it's not REALLY so much of a counterpoint, but a train of thought.
    Before I start, let me get out of the way up front that I enjoy the entries from WKF and have enjoyed previous exchanges with this author. Therefore, I must emphasize that my purpose is not to challenge his writings, but to challenge EACH OF US to think before we act, and to make informed decisions.
    First: I would say, the REAL time to have been screaming "BUY GOLD AND SILVER NOW" was a few months ago, when gold was down hundreds of dollars compared to where it is now, and silver was down under $10 per ounce, which may not sound like a lot, but by proportion, it's a big deal. Had one purchased substantial amounts of gold then, imagine the profits would could be reaped in such a short period? Ah, hindsight.
    Second: Buying on upswings is always a chance. Anyone who tells you they KNOW anything will rise or fall (stocks, bonds, gold, commodoties, etc.) is a blatant LIAR. I don't have a crystal ball. Do they? Would they put any such guarantee in writing? Is such a guarantee worth the paper on which it's printed (a la banking and insurance failures).
    Third: Some might argue that the thing to buy now IS, in fact, STOCKS. Major stocks have hit 52 week lows (many are still at or near), lows that are lower than they were 10 years ago, even longer. Some are solid AAA-credit rated companies, strong dividend paying companies who produce things that everyone uses regardless of the economy. Am I telling you to buy stocks? No. I am not a stock advisor, broker, or accountant. I am just relating things I hear and read.
    Fourth: Like buying stocks, many people buy gold and silver following a HERD mentality. In other words, when gold and silver is on the climb, EVERYONE wants to start buying it, making it rise even higher and faster than one can imagine, thinking it can only go higher. They think "If everyone ELSE is buying gold or silver, I SHOULD BE BUYING IT TOO." The same HERD MENTALITY holds true for selling. See next item.
    Fifth: As we saw so many people do in the stock market, while it was rising, and rising, and rising, people BOUGHT AND BOUGHT (buying at higher and higher prices), then it dropped, dropped, and the market bottomed -- THEN PEOPLE SOLD LIKE MAD. Ask those people HOW they should make money in the stock market? They will give the normal reply "Buy low. Sell high." Yet, for millions of Americans, the HERD was doing the opposite. The HERD was SELLING LOW (after having bought high no less), and they sold low too, incurring massive financial losses. Now, the stock market IS low. Is the herd buying? Not the average American of which the herd consists. They are putting their money in CASH, which is earning historically low interest rates, even in the highest yielding accounts. So, to add insult to injury, they lost a bundle, now they are making a pittance on what they've got.
    Sixth: DOLLAR COST AVERAGING. Our previous author mentioned it as a way to contribute to your retirement accounts (401k and IRA) - it's also a great way to buy regularly in the stock market outside of retirement accounts. On this I couldn't agree more. It tends to favor the investor who makes regular investments of fixed amounts a fixed intervals in the same investment(s) over a long period of time. This of course assumes period portfolio re-balancing, and that the fundamental stocks in which the investments are made are strong. There are web sites and books devoted to this topic alone.
    Seventh: I agree that gold and silver MIGHT go up -- they might go down. You must do what is right for you. For every person who is betting that it will rise, I can assure you there is at least one person betting the prices will fall.
    Eighth: Separate from the precious metals themselves, there have been NUMEROUS articles in coin publications recently which talk about how the coin market has remained strong, despite the economic downturn, and have cited numerous examples of auction sales, new item Mint sales, demand, etc. So, IF you are going to consider putting your money into precious metal coins in any significant amount, DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST. Don't assume that I am right. Don't assume that the previous author is right. I may be a nice guy, he may be a nice guy -- buy I come back to the fact that NO ONE HAS A CRYSTAL BALL and anyone who tells you they KNOW FOR CERTAIN WHAT WILL HAPPEN is a lying to you.
    Ninth: That is part of what is wonderful about coins, particularly coins made of gold or silver. Not only is there a collectible value for many of them, but there is also an INTRINSIC value because of the precious metal content.

  14. BULLY

    Goals..

    By BULLY,

    Scoring and Ranking
    Well, I was entering some of the coins I just got back from NGC overnight, and they increased my score slightly. My score jumped to just over 295,000 over all Registry points and my overall rank in the Registry dropped from the mid 80s to 76.
    I have NO idea exactly how much it takes to lower ranks from 88 to 76 as I did, or for that matter, how much it might take to lower myself from 76 to maybe the "Top 50". However, I do have a goal:
    Simply: I'd like my score to top 300,000 in the very near future.
    I am reasonably confident that the coins I received from NGC that I haven't entered yet are enough to get me over that milestone.
    How far DOWN into the rankings they will get me is another story, and has yet to be determined. My scores really are all over the place, with a mixture of sets, a little unfocused some might say, I might call it, eclectic.
    I do have some focuses. If you look carefully you will find various completed or NEARLY completed sets (smaller ones, granted) and even a few LARGER sets of arguably more importance that are well on their way toward completion.
    Signing off for the morning,
    Mike B.
  15. BULLY
    Part of State Quarter Series, or it's own thing? To be, or not to be, that is the question
    Ok, some of you have contacted me recently, and asked about me since I had not posted anything in a while. Tonight, you can see that I am on a bit of a roll. Ok, I am wired, and a bit hyper. It was just that kind of night.
    So, I focused a little on my coins -- trying to plan some to purchase this weekend to fill some gaps in my Registry Sets, and also thought I would share some ideas that were racing through my mind in the wee hours of the morning.
    So, I hear some sellers/dealers saying that the U.S. Territorial Quarters are VERY MUCH not part of the U.S. 50 State Quarter Program for the following reasons:
    1. They are not states - sort of obvious, I'll give them that point, though not sure I agree with the conclusion.
    2. They were not part of the coin series originally authorized by Congress, which was to run for 10 years, 5 coins per year.
    3. They were therefore created under a separate Act of Congress to recognize six U.S. territories, including D.C.
    My thoughts:
    For all the 150,000,000 - 180,000,000 COLLECTORS in the U.S. alone who ended up getting into U.S. coin collecting, primarily because of the State Quarter program, how many of those do you think consider their collections complete after Alaska and Hawaii?
    Is it me, or is the collection really incomplete unless it ALSO includes the six U.S. Territorial Quarters from 2009?
    So, they are not states.
    So, they weren't part of the ORIGINAL program.
    What if a state had joined since the program started, that would have changed things, right? Is this SO different?
    Or is it that some people may have some disdain for U.S. Territories (or some of them in particular), and thus the coins are guilty by association? It's probably a taboo subject, and I certainly don't want to start political warfare on these boards, so if you have any comments about this notion of mine, PLEASE EMAIL ME PRIVATELY!
    Personally, I think some of the coins are quite nice, and I think that recognizing D.C. IN PARTICULAR is an important step in our history. So many people in DC are struggling with basic issues which were the foundations of the U.S. Revolutionary War, things like Taxation without Representation, little things like that. The rest of the country got that settled a couple hundred years ago.
    Of course, the founders of the federal district didn't foresee a population as significant as it is living in D.C., yet there they are.
    Other territories, of course, have different tax status issues, which is a different issue altogether, and not something to address on a coin message board.
    However, my point is this: Aren't we ALL America, aren't we ALL Americans?
    What coin collection (for those who collected State Quarters anyway) will be complete without the U.S. Territories.
    How are sales going? Lagging? Pricing for them?
    Has anyone seen them certified and the going rate? I'd be curious to hear how they compare to their State Quarter cousins/brethren.
    NOTE: Image of DC Quarter courtesy of USMINT.gov web site

  16. BULLY
    Are these the forgotten coin, or is it just me?
    I am on the lookout for these, am hunting these down, to no avail. I ordered a few rolls from the Mint- months ago -- and am STILL WAITING.
    Has anyone gotten these coins? Has anyone gotten them graded?
    What's your general opinion of the reverse re-design?
    SIDE NOTE: Does anyone else have problems with LONG DELAYS for U.S. Mint Orders these days, even when the order is supposedly upgraded to "Expedited Shipping?"
    That said, I had my retired mother in law who works part time in a bank try to get me some of these coins: NONE in her branch, or any of the several local branches of her community bank.
    I checked with my Credit Union (two different ones actually), one of them even checked with various branches. The response? "We don't have the 2009 Sacagawea AND WE DON'T PLAN ON ORDERING ANY AT ALL."
    When I pressed as to WHY NOT ORDER SOME, emphasizing Native American achievements and the historical significance of the coin, and how it might appear discriminatory to avoid Native peoples, not to mention all the native peoples in my home state, many of whom contribute a great deal to our local economy through casino gaming, etc., the response I got was simply:
    "I asked the branch manager, and that was the answer I got." Does that epitomize customer NO SERVICE or what? Not "Let me go check and ask him since you are curious, to see if I can get an explanation, or even "Here's his number to call if you'd like to talk to him" -- nothing.
    So, in my copious spare time, I will be writing to the Credit Union's Leadership Committee to inquire about it. Should I have to? No. It's a simple question that Customer Service could easily have followed up on when I followed-up on it -- but that would have been too "customer focused" -- even if it was an answer I didn't want to hear like "We have no demand for them and don't want to get stuck with a vault full."
    So, I can always order the face value ones from the Mint, not in the special wrappers, get hundreds of dollars of them -- heck, try to sell some on that auction site because some people are making a bundle selling them at significant mark-ups from what I saw, and if that doesn't work out, I can always bring whatever I don't want INTO THAT VERY SAME CREDIT UNION and make a CASH DEPOSIT -- it is MONEY after all.
    NOTE: Coin image courtesy of the USMINT.gov web site.

  17. BULLY
    OR can anyone even FIND IT? WHERE IS MR. LINCOLN?
    I am just starting to see some of these coins appear with a few stray dealers, banks don't have rolls, U.S. Mint orders are BACKORDERED along with orders Proof and Mint State Lincoln Commemorative Silver Dollars (and have been for months!).
    Yet I've seen some dealers selling lots of multiple certified coins.
    Am I the only one having trouble finding these Lincoln cents (or dollars for that matter)?
    Also, is it me, or are the grades and mint marks hard to get?
    I am seeing a wide variation in prices, some from PCGS, some NGC, and some from ANACS (still not so sure about ANACS -- I mean I know the ANA worked a deal to develop a policy for the sale of certified coins on eBay to consider ANACS a grading company that is essentially a player and qualifies as a certified coin) - unlike some of the lesser known Third Party Grading Services (TPGs).
    Essentially though, NGC, PCGS, ANACS, NCS were covered, and I think ICG was covered, though not sure how ANACS buying them affects that. However, I digress.
    Is anyone getting these coins?
    Where are you getting them?
    Are you getting them certified or raw? If certified, what sort of grades are you getting, and what's the highest you've seen from NGC and/or PCGS?
    I've also got to ask about this First Day of Issue thing and opinions on working to get the designation for it from NGC (or other TPGs).
    First of all, the problem is that several local financial institutions are JUST GETTING (this week) the Lincoln Log Cabin/Kentucky Cents. So, that sort squashes any hope for me to submit coins for FDOI pedigree.
    How do other folks feel about the importance of such a pedigree?
    How do other folks GET the coins (WHERE for that matter), and how many do you submit to NGC to make it worth your while?
    Do you ask for a grade? Or do you get that "BU" designation that I've seen (This may be a question I'll pose to NGC in a separate forum like the chat boards, but I wondered if that's something anyone can get or if it's a volume thing, a dealer thing, or what).
    I DO know that if you have a BU coin, you an submit it to NGC for reconsideration (I forget NGC's term) essentially to get it assigned a numerical grade. If it already has a FDOI (or other) pedigree (from NGC), it won't lose it. NGC, however, does NOT honor pedigrees from other carriers such as PCGS or ANACS since NGC cannot verify the quality control of the date received and so forth before they put THEIR pedigree on it. I sort of get that, though it's sad because PCGS has some of the same standards. However, on the flip side, it helps maintain NGC's integrity, which is really important, and it's part of what keeps many of us returning to NGC -- and part of what I am sure keeps NGC as the official grading service of the ANA and the PNG -- though that's just MY OPINION, I could be wrong.
    Again I got side tracked. I am still VERY CURIOUS about Lincoln Cents -- and would welcome any advice about them.
    NOTE: Coin image courtesy of USMINT.gov

  18. BULLY
    Yes, my 2009 UHR FINALLY came in the mail this week, on Tuesday in fact -- not that two months from order time is something about which one should be impressed.
    First of all, is ANYONE hating the U.S. Mint on the following:
    1. VERY SLOW order fulfillment?
    2. Their new SEVEN DAY return policy? Now, I can sort of understand this and possibly even accept this for Gold and Platinum BULLION items, because of the significant price variations. However, for Legacy Sets? For Coin Rolls? For Proof Sets? For Territorial Quarter Proof Sets? These are things that are still for sale in most cases, and for which the prices remain fixed throughout the year. To limit the return period to SEVEN DAYS is one of the more restrictive return policies I have seen. It is more restrictive than many sellers even on eBay! It may fly in the face of the guidelines set by the ANA (I'd have to read their rules), though I think that if the return policy is posted, they're covered. Still, I don't like it. I wish it only applied to BULLION items, which I think would be a reasonable approach considering what I think they are trying to accomplish.
    So, that said, here is my 2009 Ultra High Relief Heartbreak.
    It finally arrived -- the email the day of delivery of course-- thank goodness I didn't open it. I didn't even check NGC's schedule to see if I could have made the cut-off for Early Releases designation if I was submitting the coin because it's moot.
    Why? Because I got an offer from a dealer from whom I had done business, and from whom I actually plan(ned) to buy this coin, in hopes of getting an MS70 grade since the likelihood of getting an MS70 with just ONE coin that I purchase and submit is chancy at best.
    The offer was reasonable, seemingly generous in fact. The offer covered ALL expenses (coin cost if purchased on issue date, shipping from the Mint, shipping to the dealer, and a roughly 10% fee on top of that, for my trouble). I, of course, was one of many people participating in this offer for this dealer to help supply customers.
    The deal also included and offer (assuming the Mint still had supply) of a coin at a fixed price (depending on Mint pricing) later in the year (October-December I believe)
    AND
    The deal also included FREE SHIPPING for the entire rest of the year on all orders from this dealer. So, if ordering with any regularity, savings there could be substantial.
    Lastly, the check payment for the coin would be sent via Federal Express upon receipt of the coin in the unopened box.
    So, the sad part:
    1. I never even got to open the box and look at what is supposed to be STUNNING Mint packaging for a change -- they actually are starting to get it right for some of these exceptional products. China did it for the Olympics, other countries have done it, but the US Mint lagged. Now, they are starting to realize that packaging, while not included in value books at all, makes a difference - it's all in the presentation, especially when you're spending $1,200 (or more) such as for 4-coin bullion sets.
    2. The price of the coin, because of the price of gold and the US Mint's new bullion pricing policy, has risen QUICKLY. Therefore, the 10% allotment I received and to which I agreed back in January (I think it was January), when the coin went on sale, seems paltry, particularly when I'll probably need to pay substantially more than that for a raw coin by year end -- ASSUMING THE MINT LIFTS THE LIMIT OF ONE COIN PER HOUSEHOLD.
    Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time. A reputable dealer, one with whom I had done business, expenses covered, a rate on top of that, free shipping on other orders, and a check by FedEx so that I can pay my credit card bill before it even arrives (much less comes due).
    On the upside:
    1. The dealer seems to be living up to his deal, and is right on the ball with turnaround time. I have a feeling he REALLY needs these coins!
    2. I received the coin on Tuesday, and turned it around on Tuesday via Registered Mail -- one box inside another, right out to him, 1,000-1,500 miles away, and those in the know realize that because of the security involved with Registered Mail at the USPS, it tends to be slow. Despite that, it was delivered late Thursday or (more likely) early Friday (I didn't actually check). See next item.
    3. I got an email from the dealer early the morning of Friday the 13th of March, confirming receipt of my coin, and that my payment check was being sent via FedEx the same day.
    A smooth transaction as promised -- so far.
    Not sure if he splurged for Saturday delivery (That would be REALLY impressive) but I'll be fine getting the check on Monday, and assuming even a possible hold on the funds for a week (depending on what bank he uses and the routing numbers), I'll still have the payment in plenty of time to pay my credit card off.
    So, on the plus side, I made a few bucks, and earned a bit of cash back.
    Downside: I probably blew it because gold surged after I made the deal. I was living the world at the time where gold was still stagnant, and to my chagrin, the Mint also is aggressively changing it's coin pricing -- mostly up. Have you noticed they don't LOWER bullion coin prices so quickly even though, say, silver is down by $1 in the last week or two?
    So, I might have been better off keeping the coin for myself, and getting it certified by NGC and taking whatever grade I got for it, even if I couldn't get Early Releases on it (again, I didn't check their chart). With all the delays from the Mint, I sure hope they took that into account with their deadline for this coin.
    That's my tale of the 2009 Ultra High Relief.
    NOTE: Image Courtesy of NGC's web site - sample Early Release UHR coin.

  19. BULLY
    Buying what you like
    Since the creation of Early Releases labeled coins, and the lawsuit/settlement involving First Strikes, I've heard many arguments, the most frequent of which is that it is a marketing ploy on behalf of the grading company. In fairness, I'll point out that PCGS still issues First Strike coins, with a qualification on the label not dissimilar to the cards issued by NGC about their Early Releases designation coins.
    First, I'll also mention other "special" labels available:
    First Day of Issue
    First Day of Mintage
    First Year of Issue
    20th Anniversary
    10th Anniversary
    Not to mention the special labels that go along with the Presidential Dollars in general, as well as those for the First Spouse coins.
    These just begin to scratch the surface I am sure, but you get the idea.
    There are collectors who are interested in collecting special labels, and there is nothing wrong with that.
    So, for instance, when First Strike coins came along, it was something new, and it was a new label to collect. Is that a marketing ploy? Perhaps. I'll get back to that though.
    Now, there was a settlement about it, and the conditions about it were made very clear. NGC has made their position extremely clear. Why PCGS didn't also get sued still perplexes me, but that's another story. Anyway, NGC then created the Early Releases designation, and described them as coins they grade (more specifically which NGC receives) within the first 30 days of a coin's release.
    Interestingly, when coins eligible for such designation are released, NGC's turnaround time comes to a crawl. This is not an intended criticism of NGC. It is an observation which is intended to recognize that collectors and dealers alike tend to submit many coins within the initial 30-day window to obtain the Early Releases pedigree. Why? As a recent journal writer observed quite well, his coin and let us say my coin may have been minted on the same day, but let's say I submitted my coin to NGC within the first 30 days to obtain the Early Releases pedigree and he submits his 6 months later. We each obtain an MS70 grade on our Silver American Eagle coins, good for us! Which coin is worth more?
    That is the question of the hour!
    To some collectors, the idea of a special label is silly, and the coin is the coin, so they see no need to pay a premium in grading, nor for the coin in such a holder after the fact.
    To other collectors, the idea of a special label is NOT silly, and they see a special label as a distinction of sorts.
    To other collectors still, the jury is still out. These collectors may be opting to use the special label seeing that it can do no harm, and hoping that it MAY be of added value in the future.
    NGC does not add extra points for Early Releases coins.
    However, if you check the PCGS online price guide for First Strike coins, arguably a comparable pedigree to the Early Releases from NGC, in the last couple of years of Silver American Eagles for instance, even an MS69 or PF69 SAE with a 1st Strike designation in the PCGS online price guide is worth $5, $10 or up to $25 more than its plain label counterpart.
    Applying that logic to NGC grading fees, I've opted to submit coins I buy from the U.S. Mint under the Modern Special tier to NGC, when they are eligible for Early Releases. The math works for me, at least when looking at the price guides, when thinking about potential re-sale.
    Am I dealer? No. I am what one might call a collector-investor. I am a collector who buys what he likes, while at the same time I hope that the things that I am choosing to buy will be worth more some day. Sometimes, my hope for increased prices someday influences my purchases, other times it doesn't (such as when I might just be trying to fill a hole in a collection or something).
    So, doing the math on submitting 5 Silver American Eagles within 30 days of release to NGC:
    Under the Modern grading tier, the cost is $12.50, and if you submit them online, you may take a 10% discount, making the cost per coin $11.25.
    Under the Modern Special grading tier (for Early Releases), the cost is $15 per coin. Taking the same 10% discount, the cost is $13.50 per coin. Thus, the initial cost differential is $2.25 per coin.
    When price guides even a year later show a cost differential of $10 or $15 for a First Strike, and presumably an Early Release may reflect similarly in the marketplace, the $2.25 seems like a nominal charge which may result in a substantial return on investment (ROI) if the coin is sold (500% in a year?) at some point in the future.
    Another occurred recently eBay when the 2008-W Silver American Eagle coins with the 2007 Reverse coins were being sold, the coins with the Early Release pedigree were bringing a $50 - $100 (and higher) premium to those with the plain brown NGC label, and were doing so consistently.
    A final thought: If it IS a marketing ploy, perhaps we have only ourselves (that is collectors, all of us) to blame. You heard it here first. Why do I say that? If there was no market for Early Releases, First Strike, First Day of Issue, First Day of Mintage, etc. labels, does anyone honestly think that the Third Party Grading companies (TPGs) would still be making them?
    It may be too early to tell if the Early Releases are truly value added, which is a fair enough assessment. For the time being though, I am one collector-investor who is comfortable with how price guides appear to be giving the pedigree a lead, if not a commanding one.

  20. BULLY
    Which is safer? Pun is too obvious, sorry.
    Ok, this poster raises interesting questions which everyone should think about, but I will add some more to the mix.
    When considering safe deposit boxes, there are more things to think about than just the safety of your coins.
    First, let me comment on the earlier message from Paul Kiraly insofar as the IRS doing audits and perhaps questioning the contents of the box and so on. I understand that the IRS may audit bank accounts, but I cannot imagine that the IRS would audit the contents of a safe deposit box. I will add that I am NOT a lawyer, nor an accountant, nor do I work for the IRS, so I am in no way an expert on this.
    It just seems to me that even IF an audit were to occur, it would be announced, well in advance, and you would have the opportunity to remove any contents from a box, if you so chose. Again, this presumes that the IRS does audit a box, but I am unfamiliar with this and would be curious to hear about the circumstances under which the IRS does this.
    That issue aside, let's focus on the good and the bad of a safe deposit box:
    Positive:
    Relatively secure.
    Not subject to the average home break-in.
    If home was broken into while you were there, and if you were held at gunpoint, would you open a home safe? Safe deposit boxes in a bank have an advantage over this in that regard.
    MYTHS about safe deposit boxes:
    Contents of a safe deposit box are NOT insured by the bank, nor by the FDIC, nor, generally, by your homeowners insurance policy.
    Therefore, if you maintain a coin collection in a safe deposit box, you should secure adequate insurance coverage for your collection. If you are an ANA member, you may obtain coverage underwritten by AXA through the Hugh Wood Agency in NYC. Information is available at the ANA's web site www.money.org
    Safe deposit boxes are NOT 100% secure. While rare, robberies can occur. Again, this is reason enough to have insurance for your collection, even if it is in a safe deposit box. If your collection remains there, rates may be less expensive than if you travel with your collection or if you are a dealer.
    Safe deposit boxes are THE best places to store your coin collection. - MYTH. Many safe deposit box rooms are HUMIDIFIED specifically because the MAJORITY of bank customers store documents (wills, birth/marriage certificates) and/or cash in them. Therefore, by humidifying the rooms, they are helping to preserve PAPER.
    However, for coins, HUMIDITY IS THE ENEMY. Therefore, if using or considering a bank safe deposit box, contact the bank manager, not just a teller who probably has no idea, and find out if the bank humidifies the vault area where the safe deposit boxes are kept. Also, using moisture absorbing packets in your box may be wise for coin collectors, whether or not your bank humidifies. I've also heard of collectors storing their coins in tupperware type containers and/or ziploc bags to prevent moisture from invading.
    Imagine this scenario: You lived in New Orleans a couple years ago during hurricanes Katrina and Rita, and your bank was literally UNDER WATER for days, weeks or LONGER. How would your previous and even PRICELESS coin collection have fared in that safe deposit box? Just ONE MORE REASON FOR INSURING THE CONTENTS!
    ON TO HOME SAFES:
    Home safes can provide a great deal of safety.
    According to police statistics (as quoted from a safe web site):
    "Police reports indicate most thieves want to get their jobs done as quickly as possible to reduce their chances of getting caught. Most break-ins are the smash and grab type?getting their job done in 10 minutes or less?and surprisingly between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. in the afternoon. Young males, 18 to 26, most often commit these crimes. Their goal is to be gone before police can respond to a home security system or a neighbor?s phone call."
    Why should you buy a home safe? According to Liberty Safe, at:
    http://www.libertysafe.com/homesecurity.lasso?page=2
    The answer is:
    "When you buy a residential security or gun safe what you?re really buying is time. Time to protect your valuables from a thief. What are they looking for? You might think cash and jewelry are the top items stolen during a home burglary, but they are actually fifth on the list. Stereo equipment is fourth, followed by video equipment?grouped as TVs, VCRs and cameras. Guns are the number one items stolen in a home burglary. Can you guess what?s second? Booze and cigarettes! Go figure."
    I find that starting, guns, booze, cigarettes!
    The Liberty Safe web site goes on to say:
    "When a thief enters a home or office, the real deterrent seems to be the addition of a residential security or gun safe. Police reports indicate that when a thief sees a shiny, heavy-duty safe they generally leave without taking a thing. They're left to mumble, "Anything of value is probably in that safe and we don't have the time nor the tools, so let's just go to the next house."
    I happen to agree with the statement, assuming that they break in when no one is home.
    I read an article in The Numismatist (the official publication of the ANA) recently. The article described a numismatist who left her collection with her parents at her childhood home. Her parents were robbed, at gunpoint, and everything was stolen, her entire collection specifically.
    It leads me to wonder, if you were HOME and were robbed at gunpoint and had such a safe in your home, would you just give over the combination to safe your life or that of your family or loved ones? Food for thought. I mean it's all well and good when you ARE NOT THERE, but what if the robbery occurs when you are? I would have said that is less likely, until I read that article in The Numismatist, and clearly, it can happen.
    However, for the most part, if you have a large collection, I suspect a safe deposit box is unlikely to be able to hold it all, and therefore, I would encourage anyone to buy a safe like the earlier poster suggested.
    As for the size of the safe, I wouldn't go small, I would suggest going LARGE. In fact, whatever size you THINK you need - DOUBLE IT. That may mean buying the largest size they make, but if so, so be it. It is far less expensive to buy one large safe than it is to buy one smaller to medium size safe, only to discover within a few months or a year that you need another one. Not only in delivery, but in having a place for it in your home or office.
    Also, regardless of the safe, I again urge INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR THE CONTENTS OF THE SAFE. Most of these safes are fireproof for a specified amount of time, depending on the model you select. However, they are not, for instance, water proof. So, if you had it in a basement, what if you had a flooded basement due to exterior water problems (lots of rain), or internal home issues such as a water heater that broke or some pipe trouble.
    As for the insurance, a reminder that even in your home, MOST homeowners insurance policies will NOT cover coin collections. OR, if they do cover a coin collection, the coverage will be VERY limited, such as $250 to perhaps $1,000 of coverage. For many of us, that could amount to A SINGLE COIN!

  21. BULLY

    Inching upward

    By BULLY,

    Ever so slowly.
    I entered a handful of coins again tonight, and found a few sets where I apparently had upgraded some sets, but never used the "leftovers" to fill slots in my secondary sets, so I gained a few points on those.
    I went from about 314,600 to about 314,575 points.
    My ranking climbed as I hoped, a mere one place, but it moved from 71st to number 70. Considering I had only about 8 coins, mostly of only moderate and little significance, I'll take it happily (several of the coins, like the one pictured, were high scoring 3 pointers - HA!).
    Someday, I'll break my way into the top 50.
    Mike B.

  22. BULLY

    Creeping higher

    By BULLY,

    And lower...(as the case may be)
    My overall Registry Points inched higher today, as I entered about 11 more coins into my sets overnight, increasing my score from approximately 309,500, to over 314,600 points.
    One of my happier coins was a 2008 Bald Eagle Mint State $5 Gold Piece, MS70. That's because I already had every other coin from the Bald Eagle series in 70 grade, each half dollar (proof and mint state, multiples even), each silver dollar (proof and mint state, multiples even), and a proof $5 gold. Unfortunately my other $5 gold Mint state only achieved a MS69 grade. However, the new MS70 gives me a nicely matched set. I also need to look into some NGC Multi-Holders, but that's a separate story.
    So, while those increased, my ranking decreased, which is good, sort of like a golf score. I went from 73rd to 72nd place. Not a big move admittedly, but for a handful of coins, it could have been worse.
    I think the only way I'm really going to do it is to submit some more coins to NGC. I do still have my 5-coin EarlyBird coupon, and I plan to combine it with a submission to NCS, so I can take some coins out of OLD ANACS holders and see of NCS can work some magic with them, and make for a possible "upgrade" -- only time will tell. They are the OLDER holders from ANACS, so I am hopeful they will at least remain the same in the crossover.
    It also gets a few valuable coins into the Registry that I previously could not, since NGC doesn't acknowledge ANACS coins.
    Whether or not I will submit any other coins remains to be seen.
    I found some other coins in my safe that I had pulled from one of my safe deposit boxes, intending them to go to NGC. I guess that means I should submit them, eh?
    Or maybe I'll just add to my NCS submission along with the ANACS coins. I've been thinking about trying the new "Modern Tier" submission at NCS. Has anyone tried it yet? The price is like $20 or $22.50 per coin, and it includes not only the conservation services from NCS, but grading by NGC. It is for coins I believe 1970 and later, which is IDEAL for the Silver Ike Dollars in the blue and brown packs, as well as the Ikes in the Mint Sets, but I am thinking more about the silver ones, even the Silver Bi-Centennial Set, and some Susan B. Anthony Dollars which have a tendency to darken, but are otherwise high quality proof coins.
    Does anyone else think the services at NCS are highly underutilized?
    I see SO MANY stories about so-called "body-bagged" (no-grade) coins, and I always think about how if I have a coin that I think might get "prettied up" through conservation, or might otherwise be "precious" or a key date and thus special to my collection, I will submit it to NCS FIRST, rather than to NGC. Why?
    Well, a couple of reasons.
    NCS can determine if there is anything "wrong" with the coin, wrong in the sense that it would have been a no-grade coin with NGC. If it IS a no-grade coin, NCS can encapsulate the coin, so it is at least protected, and they can do so according to your instructions, at the price level you selected, whether just to indicate that the coin is "Genuine" or to indicate a "details grade" like "AU = Details" and note the problem of the coin like "improperly cleaned" on the slab. You then have the coin for your collection, especially if it's a key date or something, or if it's a nice chunk of silver, or even a gold piece, that has happened to me. It is nice to have the gold preserved so nothing happens to it.
    SIDEBAR: NCS coins, while not eligible for "Competition Sets" (formerly known as Registry Sets) may be listed in NGC Signature Sets. So, it is also provides you with a way to show off an otherwise invisible part of your collection.
    Next, if the coin is NOT a "no-grade" coin, NCS has the chance to conserve the coin. While they will also tell you if they believe that conserving a coin will detract from the value of the coin and that it shouldn't be done, in SO MANY cases their conservation work is EXTRAORDINARY. Check out the before and after photos on their web site (select NCS from the bottom of the ngccoin.com homepage) or subscribe to their email newsletter.
    Sometimes when they conserve coins, even coins that are already graded (even by NGC), the coins MAY "upgrade." That's an "IF" but it happens. Other coins end up at the same grade, but often with much greater eye appeal, and let's face it, all MS60s for instance, are NOT created equal.
    Also, by sending the coin to NCS first, you get to avoid DOUBLE SHIPPING CHARGES. If you submit to NGC first, your coin gets returned from NGC as a "no-grade" or so-called "body-bag" you MAY submit it to NCS for another shipping charge, but by going to NCS first, they hand it off to NGS for you, thus just one charge. Sure, you get a whopping $1 or something off of NCS services if you leave the "body-bag" on from NGC. I don't think that covers a new postage submission, to and from.
    Wow, did I get off on a tangent here. I started talking about my score, and I ended up talking about underutilized conservation services.
    Personally, I think the new "Modern Tier" makes NCS' services even more accessible, at least for the coins which fall into that category.
    I'll wrap up for now, before my stream of consciousness takes another turn.
    Mike

  23. BULLY
    Which kind of NGC grade/packaging do people prefer
    Someone recently posted a journal entry about an Ike that graded well, and it was encased in the original OGP (presumably one of the "Brown Pack Ikes") with the NGC band around the case to indicate the grade.
    Side note: I know NGC also does these on the GSA Hoard Morgans.
    That said, do folks prefer these packages to be graded this way as opposed to the NGC slabs?
    I would pose the same question about the so-called "Blue Pack Ikes" which NGC will grade within the pliofilm and assign a grade , so the coin stays within its OGM, including the original mint "medallion."
    I am more curious to hear from real Ike fans, though comments from casual collectors are more than welcome as well.
    I'll do what I probably shouldn't, and announce my preference up front: I prefer NGC to crack the pack, and use the traditional NGC holder. I have a couple of reasons:
    1. NGC (and other TPGs) have gone on record as saying that they belief their holders to be the best way to store and protect coins for long term storage. While they acknowledge that even in their slabs, changes may occur over time, they are the best currently available, and will work to improve them as advancements become available.
    2. As a follow up to number one, OGP tends to degrade over time, and is just not nearly the best for long term storage of coins. While the solid packs are better than the older pliofilm, the grading cost is the same, and if I have a choice for the same price, I'd rather elect the better protection for my coin.
    3. With the coins graded in the OGP, NGC qualifies their grade, and does not guarantee it. Therefore, if the coin is later submitted to NGC to be removed from the OGP and slabbed in a traditional NGC holder, the grade may change.
    4. Simplicity. For simple long term storage reasons, I like being able to put regular NGC slabs in storage boxes - they're the same size, and the OGP complicates that. It's more bulky, and thus cannot be stores alongside other coins. It cannot even be stores alongside other Ike dollars, say Blue Pack Ikes, or Ikes which came from Proof/Mint Sets, or even circulation.
    I can probably think of other reasons, but that's my initial take on the matter.
    I am curious why people decide what they do though.
    For instance, I DO have a GSA Hoard Morgan, graded by NGC in the original holder with the NGC band showing the grade that way. I think it could benefit from services by NCS. From what NCS told me, they could remove it from the GSA packaging, conserve if if they deem it so, and submit it to NGC for grading. It would retain its original pedigree as a GSA Hoard Morgan UNLESS I specifically requested that it be removed. So, while it wouldn't be in the original package, the new NGC protective encapsulation would note that it was, in fact, a coin which came from one of the original GSA Hoard packaged coins. A noteworthy item.
    I have Morgans in my collection and like them, but am not an expert, so I also pose the question to die-hard Morgan collectors: Would such a distinction influence your choice in a coin? Do you prefer the original package over the NGC slabbed coin? What if the NGC slabbed coin indicated that it came from a GSA Hoard holder?
    These are the things I wonder about. I wonder about lots of things. Am I a weirdo, or just a numismatist?
  24. BULLY
    USMINT.gov
    It appears that if this article is legit, the sale of Silver Eagles being slowed has to do with the Bullion rolls of the plain SAEs.
    As of now anyway, both the Uncirculated 2008-W and the Proof 2008-W Silver American Eagle are both listed as AVAILABLE on the web site at www.usmint.gov

  25. BULLY

    Goal update

    By BULLY,

    Well, one goal down, new one set!
    It was just on the 21st where I wrote about my goal to top 300,000 Registry Points reasonably soon. My other goal was to lower my ranking further, making my way down, perhaps even into the top 50 or lower, though I am not exactly sure what that will take, so only time will tell.
    However, tonight with entering a few more coins, a few Silver American Eagles and a few Commemoratives, my Registry Set score topped 300,000. Just the other day, when I had dropped from 80 in the ranking to 76, tonight I further dropped to 73 overall, so I am making progress.
    Considering I only went from 295k to 300k roughly in score, dropping 3 points in overall rank seems exciting to me.
    Well, I think I have a FEW more to enter anyway, then I may need to get more graded. What shall I aim for now? Now that I've hit the "Top 75," I'd like to drop to the Top 70. Not sure what score that will take, but I guess I'll find out over time. How much time remains to be seen.
    NOTE ADDED ON FRIDAY MAY 24th, midday: It looks like someone else is adding to their Registry Sets, because when I posted this last night, I was at 73, today I am at 74. How quickly things change!