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BULLY

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Journal Entries posted by BULLY

  1. BULLY

    Dealers?

    By BULLY,

    I have my doubts.
    I have to wonder about how great a dealer you had who is unable to sell a coin which:
    1. Starts out as a MAXIMUM MINTAGE of 20,000 (Ok, let's be generous and say 40,000 -- 20,000 each Mint State and Proof).
    2. Is graded by PCGS as MS69 (forgive me if you said yours was Proof 69). In "the trade," coins graded by either PCGS or NGC are considered easily moved commodities.
    3. And which is .9999 Fine gold - and a full HALF OUNCE OF GOLD at that!
    4. Not to mention that gold has been surging beyond $925 per ounce. Ok, some people take profits and it drops below $900, then it's back up again.
    6. Previous issues of the First Spouse coins are listed in the PCGS price guide at a fair mark-up, in 69 grade.
    http://www.pcgs.com/prices/PriceGuideDetail.aspx?c=1647
    Granted, buyers really seem to want the MS70 and the PF70 coins for some reason, despite the limited quantity AND the bullion value. This part perplexes me. I can see why perfection is desirable, when when fair prices can be had at the 69 grade, to get half an ounce of .9999 of PURE GOLD, why the heck not?
    7. It would strike me that this dealer, if he says he cannot SELL these coins, just doesn't have the right clients, doesn't know how to market, or just has a very LIMITED client base. If you check eBay, these coins ARE selling. As I mentioned, the 70 grade coins move faster and are commanding substantially higher prices, but they are selling.
    8. In fairness, dealers do not generally buy collectible (even BULLION) coins at spot metal prices, nor at "book value" because they must allow themselves mark-up, for their profit, which is why so many people take to selling items themselves, on "the bay." Let's face it, they want to allow themselves a SUBSTANTIAL mark-up.
    I'm not a dealer, but a 20% markup is probably not uncommon, I mean if he was to acquire it, then sell it on eBay, taking into account their new fees, re-sale, fluctuating gold price, and so forth, he'd probably need that cushion to make a modest profit in case the bidding isn't significant enough. Dealers could probably offer more insight here.
    In my mind though, it's sort of like trading in your car with a dealer, or selling it yourself: Which way generally gets you more cash? If a car dealer SAYS they are giving you more, who actually believes that the price of the car you're buying is not then marked up to account for that? I think a page from the same playbook applies.
    Just my opinion.
  2. BULLY
    I can see both sides of the argument.
    Not to mention both sides of the coin. I wouldn't encourage someone to go out and BUY 5, 10, or 40 coins (or more) for the very expensive prices that the coins seem to be commanding now.
    However, if a collector was lucky enough to have ordered from the Mint say, 20, 30 or more coins, and all of them had the 2008-W, with the 2007 reverse ERROR, I might not discourage him or her from keeping those since they were purchased at initial sale price, quite reasonable especially if silver rises, and even more so if the overall total population drops from 47,000.
    That said, there is something to be said for not putting all ones eggs in the same basket, a la Enron. If I had 10, 20, 30 or more of these coins, and they were (and ARE in fact selling upwards of TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS each (and I paid about $26, plus grading) for them? I might sell a couple, just to take profits, at least enough to cover my cost for the coins I purchased, and the grading fees, AND maybe a little extra as a bonus to buy something else, whatever that may be.
    It's sort of like a rising stock. Do you sell it, thinking it will rise even higher? Or do you sell it? What if it starts falling? Do you hold on to it thinking it will rise again? What if it then keeps falling? How much of a profit, exactly, is ENOUGH? 50%, 75%, 100%, 400%, 500%? Serious food for thought.
    The example I showed at $2144, for a coin that sold for $26, assuming even the cost for grading and shipping lets assume a cost basis of even $50, that is OVER a 420% profit. And if the sales results drop, how long will you have to wait before the sales rebound, a year, 10 years, 30?
    As with stocks, coins do not have to be an "all or nothing" proposition like so many people seem to think it does. All or nothing thinking is what destroys people financially. You can sell ONE OR TWO (or several, if you have many) and keep others for the future. Take profits to cover your costs, make some money. Then, if the market drops (as with stocks), you at least covered your expenses and earned a few bucks. In the future, anything else would be gravy.
    In a stock example, if your stock was up 50% or 100%, hooray for you! Sell a portion of your shares, maybe a quarter or a third and run. If your stock later falls, you at least made some money. If it rises, you still have more to earn additional profits -- you win no matter which way it turns out.
    There, my friends, is how to work BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN.
     
    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
  3. BULLY
    HIGHER THAN YOU THINK!
    Earlier today, TPETERS wrote that he saw this coin for $1,000 -- I saw it for even more...just wait!
    I get emails from eBay about auctions from some sellers I've done business with, and they show me "similar items for sale."
    Well, this weekend I saw an auction where a 2008-W Silver American Eagle, Reverse of 2007, MS70, PCGS, "First Strike"...on eBay...sold for...are you ready???
    DRUMROLL.....
    You aren't going to believe me if I tell you, so just in case, the eBay item number is 140232868824
    Sale price: US $2,144.99
    Everyone pick themselves up off the floor yet?
    I feel like I got mine for a SUPER bargain! Should I be selling now while the market is apparently HOT HOT HOT?
  4. BULLY
    It actually fits into the 2008-W Mint State Silver Eagle slot!
    I wrote to NGC asking about adding a slot for this error coin, and received a reply indicating that while they had not done so, and alluding to their consideration, that for the time being, the 2008-W coin, with the Reverse of the 2007 Mint State Silver American Eagle actually can be added to the regular 2008-W slot.
    I tried, and successfully added the coin to my slot. When you go into the details about the coin, it does show the descriptive details as well.
    Personally, I'd still like to be able to list EACH coin, but considering this one is more exceptional, if I had to choose, I'd probably opt for it.
  5. BULLY
    I did pretty well!
    Well, NGC emailed my images this afternoon, so though the status hasn't yet changed to "Finalized/Imaged/Shipped" I know what my 2008-W Silver Eagles are going to be.
    I submitted 12 of them, for Early Releases.
    I got ALMOST an even split, slightly in my favor. I must admit that in the last two years, I've had better results.
    Anyway, the tally is:
    MS70: Quantity 7
    MS69: Quantity 5
    And, among the dozen, I was not lucky enough to get a single one which had a reverse of the 2007. I guess if I want one of those, I will have to pay a pretty penny for it on the secondary market.
  6. BULLY
    or so-called "profit-taking," a correction, or some other anomaly, or whether these noble metals were destined to rebound.
    As of 3/20/2008 5:51:13 PM EST
     
    Gold $913.00 (down from over $1,000 per ounce)
    Silver $16.8600 (down from over $20.55 per ounce)
    Platinum $1,855.00 (down from over $2500 per ounce).
    The shocking thing is that the high prices were just about a week ago, though in retrospect, the drops occurred probably about as fast as the increases in these prices.
    So, could this be a correction? Could this be profit taking? So many possibilities.
    I am still happy that I own gold, silver, and platinum. I am glad that I didn't buy gold at $1,000 per ounce, nor platinum at $2,500 per ounce, nor silver at hefty premiums.
    Though, in retrospect, I do wish I had been a little faster to sell some of the platinum and gold I had, though it took me a while to get it graded.
    Who knows, maybe the metals will re-bound, and my graded coins will be back en-vogue, and I'll be glad I had them graded. Only time will tell.
    I have no crystal ball, only the knowledge that the majority of what I bought, I bought years ago, at fair prices, and what I purchased this year was at ridiculous discounts that didn't even seem to cover grading fees, much less postage and handling, or the melt value of the coins, so again I can take comfort.
  7. BULLY
    They are ENDEARING
    Ok, I am going to go out on a limb, and so against the grain of the group feeling and admit that I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Bald Eagle half dollar coins.
    As soon as the brochure arrived, I couldn't wait for the day they went on sale for pre-order. I wanted them. WHY? Which ones caught my eye? It was the half dollar that caught my attention immediately!
    Personally, of all three coins, I find the half dollar with these so-called "skinny chickens" the most endearing.
    Certainly, the soaring eagle on the other coin is "majestic" but on the half dollar, the eaglets just warm my heart and make me want to do volunteer work again like I did once upon a time in America, working in the Golden Gate National Recreation Area. I didn't see any bald eagles there, though I do occasional see one or two around my home here, and have seen them when I've traveled to other places such as Nova Scotia and more pristine environments.
    There is a nesting pair that lives over by the Connecticut River and what we have surmised is that they come to fish here at the lake. They stop sometimes at the trees near my house (or in the neighborhood).
    When I pulled out of my driveway one day, and I was heading up the road, and this HUGE bird (the bald eagle) took flight from a low branch of a tree and flew right over my windshield, I was in shock (and awe!).
    Mind you, I also live about 10 minutes from our airport (BDL), so when I go down the road near the airport, I am used to 747s or other jets flying over my windshield, just a few feet above it seems, but having this eagle fly over my car seemed more awe-inspiring.
    The eaglets on these half dollars though, also inspire me to think about how this species came so far in such a relatively short period of time, that they were actually REMOVED from the endangered species list. It is not something that is done often, nor taken lightly.
    So, the skinny chickens get my vote for coin of the year!
    And I confess, I liked them SO much, during the pre-ordering, while the prices were reduced, I ordered about a dozen of them. I mean, why not? They were inexpensive, they may be the ONLY commemorative we get this year from the Mint, and with that many, if I send them ALL to be graded, I am BOUND to get at least a 70 or two (I hope).
    Mike B.

  8. BULLY
    It's true...
    I am not sure if it was because of activists, lobbying of Congressional representatives, whether there were petitions, or whether Congress just took it upon themselves. I honestly don't recall reading the "official" motivation behind the change. I do recall, however, reading that it had something to do with a complaint by some that the coins, since the "In god we trust" motto" was on the edge of the coin seemed "godless" to "some" people. This was ESPECIALLY true when there were error coins when the motto did not make it onto the coin at all. However, it IS true that Congress passed a law VERY late in 2007.
    I've always wondered: In whose "god" is our trust, exactly? What about religions who are polytheistic? Should it then not be "in gods we trust?" What about people who believe saying the name of G-d is wrong, thus printing it on everyday currency to be spoken is just wrong? It seems clear that the "god" being "trusted" is a unique one, and if you don't worship that particular "god" you are unAmerican, somehow. Come one, you know the one, it's the only one for which there are National Holidays of any kind. It's the only one for which there are oaths administered on books from a religion stemming from it. It's the only one whose prayers open official meetings at the highest levels of public office.
    I know it's a radical notion, since it's only been around since it was ratified in 1791, but the First Amendment to the Constitution, part of our Bill of Rights, says:
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." So, of someone wants to capitalize his "god" than he may certainly do so, it's a free country. I encourage it.
    However, don't tell me where I must worship, salute, or "trust" in anything or anyone, much less capitalize a "god" that may or may not exist and in which I may or may not believe because I am an American too, and THAT is what being an American is all about.
    This was reported in local and national newspapers and I believe even has press released on the US Mint web site if you search for it.
    In fact, I think there were several FAILED attempts at changing the coin, but it passed as an amendment to another law (I think a war spending bill, but don't hold me to that one), to take the words: In "god" we trust
    From the incused edge of the coin and Congress instructed the US Mint to move them to the front (maybe even allowed for the back) of the coin. It just had to be on the face of the coin (though I can't swear to that part, it may be specified that it is the obverse). The Act of Congress also gave the Mint discretion over WHEN this could happen by allowing them a "reasonable" time to implement this change, thus VERY MUCH open to interpretation.
    I think it is because of this reasonable time frame that we have 2008 Presidential Dollars with the motto on the edge of the coin. Otherwise, the motto on the coin would have been limited to the FIRST year of issue ONLY, making them ALL THE MORE COLLECTIBLE. No such luck. Now we get at least TWO YEARS of the motto on the edge.
    The Act of Congress still allows the Mint to put the mint mark, the date, and E. Pluribus Unum on the incused edge.
    Further, the Act of Congress ALSO allows for the modification of the Sacagawea coin (though I forget if that won't happen until 2010 rather than 2009), and will allow for that coin ALSO to have incused edging with the date, mint mark, and E Pluribus Unum. the Sacagawea coins will then have an annually changing reverse, dedicated to different Native American themes.
    Exciting times for collectors!
    They have certainly learned how to make money! (so to speak!)

  9. BULLY
    UGH, What were they thinking?
    Oh heaven help us!
    I knew the Coin Vault SHOW was going off the air. Jewelry Television (JTV.com) which OWNS the Coin Vault annouced it months ago:
    http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/jan/08/shop-home-cease-broadcasting-march-about-200-jobs-/
    (NOTE: I checked the ShopAtHomeTV.com web site tonite, and all it does is direct you to Jewelry Television and Watches -- no coins! It appears that this press earlier press release may be old news.)
    However, their plan was that they claimed the demographic of their coin and knife shoppers were primarily MEN, and most of their male shoppers made purchases ONLINE, that they would market the coins (and knives) ONLINE and have shopathometv.com remain active for "the guys."
    Meanwhile, they'd focus on Jewelry Television (jtv.com) for the women, since the women tend to prefer the visual displays and calling, at least that's what they claimed publicly.
    What I am disappointed about is that they are bringing Rob Chambers to ShopNBC. ACK!
    I would, admittedly, turn on The Coin Vault sometimes to see what items were going for, sometimes to see what I should put down for my "Replacement Value" for insurance purposes on items, I'd watch to see if I could actually get a deal. EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, they actually WOULD have a deal that was better than buying coins elsewhere. In general though, they were highly priced. I also watched (being an insomniac and all, they were only on the air where I live from about 2am - 5:30 or 6am, start time varied, and only a couple days per week) because I learned about upcoming items, so it was sort of like a "coin news show" for me. Sure, they sold plenty too, but when I did buy from them, it was ONLY NGC certified stuff, and ONLY when the price was right.
    Picture it, November-ish 2007, The Coin Vault has its Bullion Blowout, and I get a coupon by email for 15% off any items, including gold bullion coins. I managed to get some Gold Amerian Eagles for BELOW MELT -- and that was before today's BIG RUN UP IN GOLD PRICES! For instance, an MS69 $50 Gold American Eagle for $849.96 -- not to mention getting it on 3-4 stretch pays, I forget how many. At the time, the PCGS price guide listed that same coin with a value of $1,000. Now of course, gold is significantly higher. Needless to say, I scoured the site for some obscure pieces, where I could grab what I could at the lowest prices. They may not be the LOWEST pop or MOST DESIRABLE years, but I got a LOT of bullion at CHEAP prices!
    But I digress...
    ShopNBC is even more highly priced for its coin items, and they don't even focus on NGC! (At least I don't remember them doing so).
    Meanwhile, Rob Chamers, at 2 or 3am is SCREAMING AT YOU on the TV "THE PHONE LINES JUST WENT CRAZY. I CAN'T BELIEVE WE ARE DOING THIS AT THIS PRICE. IT'S NUTS. YOU'LL NEVER SEE THIS AGAIN." "WHEN THEY'RE GONE, THEY'RE GONE." Then they'd have some "impromptu" banter between him and whomever happened to be his sidekick for that night.
    Then maybe two hours later, the show would "recycle" itself. I mean, verbatim. ShopAtHomeTV would literally run the EXACT SAME SHOW, WORD FOR WORD and the PHONE LINES WOULD "GO CRAZY" at the exact same moment. If he dropped a coin holder the first time, he dropped it in the exact same location the second time. The banter would be identical - down to a misspeak if that happened. You could talk along with them because you KNEW what they were going to say before they said it - because you saw it two hours ago, or thereabouts.
    Honestly, it was annoying. Don't tell me the phone lines went crazy when the show is CLEARLY pre-recorded and you have NO IDEA if the phones are even ringing or not. Don't say that you have "less than one per state left now" when you have NO IDEA because you probably aren't even in the studio any more, because this is all pre-recorded.
    I have to wonder: Can a Rob Chambers HANDLE the higher class act that is ShopNBC, without pre-recording, and the like? Without SCREAMING at 2am that "YOU HAVE GOT TO GET ONLINE NOWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!"
  10. BULLY
    Silver and Platinum CAN be had, or at least WERE had recently...
    Cooker: First, that is a great story, I can almost see the tears in the eyes of the merchant as he reluctantly handed you the bar of silver at the old price.
    I mean, he snoozed, so he lost -- what dealers HAVEN'T raised their prices because of the run-up in silver (or other noble metals) lately?
    That said, I have a story of my own, involving the U.S. Mint actually.
    At the very end of January, I was perusing the Mint's web site, only to find that they had a "leftover" 1 oz. Proof Platinum Silver Eagle for sale for $1,740.95. At the time, silver was ALREADY worth more than that per ounce, so needless to say, I grabbed it... and pronto.
    During the same shopping trip, I happened upon some other "leftover" coins. These were the 2007-W Uncirculated Silver American Eagle coins, at the 2007 price of $21.95. Now, at the end of January, silver was still only at about $17.50 per ounce. However, considering that 2008 coin (the proof ones anyway) were selling for $31.95, I thought that getting the 2007-W unc. coins for just $4 - $4.50 over MELT VALUE was quite a bargain. In fact, I thought it was such a bargain that I bought TWENTY (20) of them!
    Ok, here's where things get interesting. Within DAYS of my order, mind you I got a confirmation email and all, the Mint CHANGED their web site to make the 1 oz 2007 Platinum Proof Eagle to me MUCH more expensive, and raised the price to about $1,980, or thereabouts, a $230 price jump in a matter of days, and I beat it! Or so I thought. I remember how the Mint always says that it can reject orders or that "orders are not valid until ACCEPTED by the United States Mint" or what-have-you."
    Then, it got REALLY interesting. The higher price for the platinum coin remained on the Mint's web site, as did higher prices for ALL platinum coins. However, the Mint basically put a FREEZE on the sale of ALL platinum coins until further notice. This is what they said: "Due to the increasing market value of platinum, the American Eagle Platinum Uncirculated Coins are temporarily unavailable while pricing for these options can be adjusted; therefore, no orders can be taken at this time."
    So, I waited, waited, wondered, and waited some more. Would the Mint pull a fast one on me and cancel my order, or would they let me slide through at the lower price? Or would they try billing me at the higher price? I waited some more.
    Then, the first package came. It was the 2007 Proof 1 oz Platinum Eagle. Billed amount? $1,740, just like when I bought it! Mind you, this was just a week or so ago, and by NOW platinum has risen to over $2,250 per ounce! So, from the time I bought it, until the time it arrives, the MELT VALUE alone increased by $510! Never mind that this coin is LIMITED to a production of a maximum of 6,000 coins and has a special commemorative reverse. From the Mint's web site describing the coin:
    "In 2006, the United States Mint embarked on a new, three-year series titled The Foundations of American Democracy. Each year, beginning in 2006, the reverse design will feature an image emblematic of one of the three institutional foundations of our American democracy ? the Legislative,the Executive and the Judicial branches.
    The new series of designs was launched in the order the branches of government appear in the U.S. Constitution.
    In 2007, The reverse features the second design in the series ? representing the Executive Branch and depicts a bald eagle with its wings spread wide to represent freedom with a shield at the ready to enforce the laws that guarantee those freedoms."
    So, I got a cool design, unique to the series, a bargain price, and a limited quantity to boot! In retrospect, I regret not buying more than one, buy who knew? Unfortunately, my crystal ball is a little cloudy, and I don't have a forecast for these sorts of changes.
    In fairness, however, this past Thursday or Friday, something happened, I am not sure what or when, but some time in those 48 hours, silver took a nosedive. You see, I wasn't following the news or reading about the markets so closely, since I am freshly out of the hospital after a bad car accident during which, among other things, I dislocated my hip. So, I am out of the hospital now, but while home, I am medicated on some heavy duty items which leave me a little out of it. Platinum dropped in that time frame from $2,255 to $2,015 per ounce. So, I am still $275 ahead on one coin in a matter of barely over a month - just on MELT, much less its numismatic appeal.
    The rise in platinum also made me DARNED happy that I had splurged on the 10th Anniversary Platinum Proof Set. At the time, with the two 1/2 oz. Platinum coins at $1,750, it was overpriced for the cost of platinum. However, now, it's a SUPER BARGAIN, and in retrospect, with its limited mintage, its wooden box and nice packaging, and the SPECIAL Reverse Proof design all make it appealing, and I no longer feel guilt about it at all. I feel smart for buying it in fact, and just WISH I could have bought more that darned household limit never got removed.
     
    Then, more good news. Last week, just as I was released from the hospital, I came home to find as a package was delivered with the 20 "leftover" 2007-W Uncirculated Silver American Eagles for $21.95 each.
    Mind you, when I bought the coins at the end of January and posted a message on here telling people I got them for about $4.50 less than MELT VALUE, some MOCKED ME, telling me I got some "nice silver ROUNDS" that were still overpriced.
    Well, by the time they arrived, silver is NOW at $20+ per ounce! so now, I paid $21.95 per coin, silver is at $20.17 per ounce as of Friday (and was above $20 most if not all of last week), so my TWENTY coins cost me a mere $1.78 above melt value, much less they are striking Silver American Eagle coins! (despite those who don't find them appealing as collectible items).

  11. BULLY

    Re: Platinum price/shortage

    By BULLY,

    I am enjoying it...
    Well, a couple of things:
    1. It makes me VERY glad that a few weeks ago (maybe a month), I was perusing the Mint's web site, and found a "leftover" 1oz Platinum Proof 2007 coin for $1,740.95 I believe. I grabbed it. In retrospect, I wish I bought more than one. It hasn't arrived, but I have my order confirmation, so...I am hoping they don't get ornery and try canceling my order.
    Either a couple days or maybe a week after I placed my order, the Mint increased the price on that SAME coin to $1,980 (where it stands now) and while it seemed like a HUGE price jump, it still seems like a bargain with Platinum hovering around $2,150.
    However, as another kind user just told me today, the Mint has put an end to the sale of those at all. I checked their site, and he's right.
    This is what it says:
    "Due to the increasing market value of platinum, the American Eagle Platinum Proof Coins are temporarily unavailable while pricing for this option can be adjusted; therefore, no orders can be taken at this time."
    The part that I REALLY like though? The part that says "American Eagle Platinum Proof One Ounce Coin Product Limit: 6,000, and that this is part of their The Foundations of American Democracy series, so the 2007 coin features The Executive Branch, making it all the more unique. Because of the cost, I hadn't bought platinum from the Mint in years, but I think I grabbed at least ONE at JUST the right time!
     
    2. I am equally happy that I got the 30th Anniversary Platinum Set at $1950 - it was high at that time, but since the price has risen so much, it's WAY below melt, and you get a Reverse Proof coin out of the deal, and limited mintage, and the lovely presentation box! Turned into a MAJOR bargain!
    Some of you may remember my saga about the Mint sending my set EARLY, too early in fact. It arrived on December 24th, a week before they were even supposed to SHIP IT. Since it wasn't even supposed to be shipped until December 31st, I thought NOTHING of opening the package from the "Fulfillment Center" and to my dismay and horror, it was the Platinum Eagle 10th Anniversary Set (see my previous entry about this story). Fortunately, I was able to return it, and get a replacement, which I since submitted to NGC for certification.
    3. I am also THRILLED that in years past, when I had some extra cash, I bought the 4 piece Platinum Eagle Proof Sets. I have a few of them, two of which just came back from NGC. The rest are hiding in safe deposit boxes somewhere else, but of these two sets, each of the 1/10th oz coins came back PF69UC, and in EACH of the two sets, the $25, $50 and $100 coins were all PF70UC grades -- so I was happy to see that! I will likely go fetch those from the boxes and submit more, though possibly to PCGS since NGC hasn't been doing much right for me lately. They haven't been responding to my inquiries as promised, they haven't been returning orders at the same time, sending them individually seriously raising my cost, they haven't been imaging my orders when I submit an order that includes it, and when they DO get the images, they make about half of the images too big to load into the NGC Registry Sets, or they will randomly skip coins on the order. Tedious at best.
    So, me and platinum prices? I am enjoying it! Will I buy more? Well, that falls into buying low, selling high. I sure wouldn't want to BUY HIGH and sell low, that sort of seems contraindicated. However, if there are bargains to be had, so be it.

  12. BULLY
    What NGC will and WON'T do with these sets.
    NGC Responded to this in the "ASK NGC" Message Board (and elsewhere) and their answer has been consistent, no special certification for the 2008 Bald Eagle Commemorative Coins (or the corresponding limited edition sets)
    http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2128484&page=1#Post2128484
    However, that doesn't preclude you (or me, or any of us) from submitting coins to NGC and getting coins done in a Multi-Holder (up to five coins as a rule) and having them done as a "theme" basically, similarly to what others have done like this:
    Check out the Mount Rushmore Multiholder image (and the thread on the topic of multiholders) here:
    http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2142869&page=1#Post2142869
    Personally, I am disappointed that the Bald Eagles 3-coin set won't get a "special" designation, considering it's limited. In restrospect, I feel stupid buying it since there will be no special designation, because the individual coins which make up the set cost less purchased separately than in the set. But clever marketing as the "limited edition set" made a mark-up for the mint. UGH.
    Meanwhile, no special designation from the TPGs like NGC means that the premium paid will likely not be recaptured if ever intended to be re-sold. Oh well.
    Personally, I got the three-coin set AND the UNCIRCULATED gold piece, as well as the uncirculated silver dollar, (and half dollar for that matter) so considering that Multi-holders can hold up to 5 coins, I was thinking about adding the extra gold goin to the set.
    Though, now that I've talked it out, I think perhaps TWO mutlti-holders are in order: One for each of the PROOF coins, and one for each of the uncirculated coins.
    Now, everyone is going to think I am weird, but I find the half dollars the MOST ADORABLE of the series. The other coins are fine, but the Eaglets features on the Half Dollar are SO UGLY they are ENDEARING! I mean, baby birds just wow me, and make my heart melt. The that end, I snatched up like 10 of them at the pre-issue price, because I just think they're TOO ADORABLE FOR WORDS!
  13. BULLY
    Some good, some bad.
    Some of my coins turn out surprisingly well, some are being turned around VERY quickly, some are just grading "average" or not too exciting.
    Here's where the fun comes in:
    Like many of you probably do, I submit multiple invoices to NGC in one box, to save shipping on the way there.
    When using the online form, I select that I want invoices returned to me when they're all completed, so that I save money on return shipping and insurance.
    Despite a thread on "Ask NGC" entitled " Hmm Ripping myself off and You letting me " from another member to which NGC replies that, basically, this SHOULD be happening:
    http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1525681&page=3#Post1525681
    Like the member who posed the question, for me, all my invoices (since I have been submitting to NGC) have always been returned to me one at a time. I elect the option as is described, to no avail.
    Now, if it happed SOMETIMES, I'd understand, but I have a 100% failure rate. You may remember recent posts that mention that I'm that guy who has the stormy rain cloud follow him around. I guess that included NGC service.
    It gets better, or worse as the case may be.
    I recently sent 4 invoices together. Three of them had imaging (clearly elected that on the invoice, it shows on my copy of the printed online invoice).
    Of those THREE invoices with imaging, TWO of them were FINALIZED/ IMAGED/SHIPPED (I use the term loosely) without actually BEING imaged. So, for me (well, for NGC) that's a 66% failure rate. If we even average in the 4th invoice that didn't have imagine, that still only gets them up to a 50% success rate.
    One of the invoices with imagine at 65 coins, so it would be more heavily weighted too, so if we did a "per coin" score, the success rate would decrease again.
    This is not the first time NGC has forgotten to image my coins. Frankly, with ALL the quality controls they have in place, in perplexes the heck out of me how that is possible.
    Further, they SAY it never happens (especially if you read their online information about how the coin grading process works), but when I was telling someone about this problem, the immediate question was "How many coins do they lose?" He had to ask me twice before the question sunk in, because it really never dawned on me, and I didn't even get the connection. But if one quality control breaks down, how reliable are the others?
    I know this sounds like an NGC bashing entry, and I sincerely don't want to turn it into such a thing. I am fond of NGC, have used them a great deal, to the tune of, lets just say many thousands of dollars in grading services.
    However, my concerns remain.
    On the upside, I saw the grades online, and while not ALL of my coins graded as I had hoped, some of the ones I really hoped for came back as PERFECT 70s!
    Some simple news:
    2008-W Proof American Silver Eagles. I submitted 15 for Early Release. Of the 15, I believe it was 10 or 11 that were PF70UC, then only 4 or 5 were PF69UC.
    My Dolley Madison First Spouse Coin was disappointing MS69 - while it's a nice .9999 half ounce of gold, the 70 graded coins seem to be the ones commanding the premium.
    2003-W First Flight Proof $10 Gold Piece -- PF70UC -- considering there are only about 21k of these made, that grade THRILLS me!
    I had similar good luck on my 2006-W Silver Eagles (Mint State), the ones that, despite ORDERING from the Mint the day they were issued, I didn't receive until sometimes around AUGUST of 2007!!!!!!!! Needless to say, I missed the Early Release cut-off! Remember, I AM that guy with the storm cloud!
    Anyway, my order from the Mint consisted of 5 of those coins. THREE of them were graded as MS70, and 2 MS69. According to the PCGS price guide, even the MS69 are a substantial price, and the MS70 -- WOWZA!
    I could continue, but for some reason, I can't get into "Order Status" tonight. (My storm cloud!)
    You don't have to answer, though I do wonder:
    Is it just me? Does NGC "forget" to image coins for anyone else?
    I mean I've seen question after question posed to NGC where people ask "I've already submitted my coin, can't you please image it?" The answer is a resounding "NO. Unless you selected IMAGING on your invoice, it WILL NOT BE IMAGED."
    Well, I'm here to say, even then, it's a shoot.
  14. BULLY
    I agree with Bruce and with Audrop.
    A clip below describes from NGC exactly what they say Journals are for.
    Well, let's examine this, shall we?
    1. Share your collecting journey with other members. Ok, buying and selling is certainly part of that journey. Sometimes, that can have pitfalls, and others can learn from that. I for one am eternally grateful to have had the chance to have read what I did.
    2. Share your experiences and thoughts. Again, I think rfar did that very well. He took the time, to share exactly what he went through, for a specific reason. He had a very hard experience, and told us what he thought about it.
    3. Share your unique acquisitions. While it wasn't the primary point of his journal entries, rfar shared in his excerpts lists of some of his coins, some of which were more common, some of which were exceptional, which was also part of the tale to share.
    4. Share your knowledge with other collectors. Again, I am seeing that this is exactly what rfar did. He had first hand knowledge of his own bad customer service experiences, and he shared those with other collectors in a factually based, step-by-step account. Did he tell people what to do? Did he tell people "Don't use this auction gallery?" Did he tell people anything patently unreasonably? No. He relayed his experiences, and after that, others make informed decisions, or at the very least could ask lots of questions before doing business with this company.
    Do I think that the reason NGC pulled the posts is because they are the official grading service of the ANA and because Heritage is the official auctioneer of the money shows? Probably not. I am a conspiracy theorist about lots of things, but that one doesn't strike me.
    However, do I think NGC was off-base and misguided to pull the postings that were well-intentioned and truly meet their own written, defined position about the purpose for Journals? ABSOLUTELY. It's like saying that if (SAY) you are against the war in Iraq you don't support the troops or anti-American. I had a bad experience (and said so) with this auction house so I am a bad ANA or Collectors Society member? Thanks for playing, but WRONG.
    NGC hopes that members "can look back over their entries as a road map of their collecting adventure." Now they've deleted valuable entries and valuable information. So much for that theory. I'd be interested to have someone from NGC post a Journal Entry to help me to undertstand, using the bullet points above, how the erased entries don't meet the criteria they themselves have laid out for Joural entries (below)?
    If the ultimate issue is simply that rfar's Journal entries, they feel, would be better suited for the Chat Boards (a possibility based on their vague sort of allusions below), why were they not moved there, or why does it not appear that he was directed to post them there as an alternative?
    As for liability issues, NGC's disclaimers are explicit, that posting content does not reflect their views and so on. They have an entire separate page devoted to Legalese.
    So again I ask, could these instead be posted in the Chat Boards? I also suggest to nfar that he ask that directly, based on the guidelines below, and IF he is still willing to even pursue that with NGC and the Collectors Society. If not, I completely understand and thank him graciously for the effort he already made. I don't want him to feel the need to rock the boat with NGC.
    My questions to NGC are not, however, rhetorical.
    Anyone else wondering how long it will be before MY Journal entry is removed?
    --------------
    This is what NGC Collectors Society SAYS Journals are for:
    Welcome to the Collectors Journal!
    We have some simple guidelines for Journal entries. The Journal feature is designed to allow our members to share their collecting journey with other members. We hope that over time our members find that they've been able to use these journals as a way to share a kind of diary with other collectors, and can look back over their entries as a road map of their collecting adventure.
     
    Use the Journal feature to:
    Share your experiences and thoughts
    Share your unique acquisitions
    Share your knowledge with other collectors
    If your topic fits into other categories, we suggest using other tools:
    Buy/Sell/Trade - Visit our Chat Boards in the MarketPlace forum.
    Grading Service Issues and Questions - use the Contact Us form and customer service will get back to you.
    Discussion topics and asking others for opinions or information - is best done on the Chat Boards.
    By following these guidelines, we hope to help you get the best responses and information for all of your needs while continuing to build the Collectors Journal as an indispensable resource.
    Thank you,
    The Collectors Society
  15. BULLY
    Gone but not?
    This was actually announced in January, though apparently not advertised on their shows. If it was in the mainstream news, why they would not make it known on the shows is beyond me, but whatever.
    http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/jan/08/shop-home-cease-broadcasting-march-about-200-jobs-/
    I actually had bought from them before, when I could get prices right.
    There were odd things that were on their web site for instance that may not have made the show, that were bargains. Some PF70 combo coins that were sold barely above the price of the original coin and grading -- I grabbed several.
    Then, toward the end of 2007, they had their "Bullion Blowout." I assume it was common, but for their regular customers, if you were on their email list, you got a coupon code for 15% off I think it was -- that was 15% off, GOLD even. Now, that was over 2.5 months ago now, before prices have surged even more.
    I'm just glancing at my invoices from the end of November, and because of that discount, I got NGC certified MS69 $25 and $50 (1/2oz and 1oz) Gold Eagle coins for LESS THAN MELT.
    Gold was at $920 yesterday, though down a little today, but I got MS70 1oz coins for $850, and MS69 1/2oz coins for $425. I had to search the site to find the "bargain ones" so they may not be "key dates" or anything, but they are quality GOLD and they were a good price at the time, and the price looks even better in retrospect!
    Not to mention it came with FlexPay - making it easier to spread the payments over a few months (and easier to buy an extra couple coins at the bargain price)!
    For what it's worth, you'll still have your Coin Vault, online only though (according to the press release), which was how I always made my purchases anyway, when I did, and only when it was really a bargain. Are they my favorite place? Not at all, in fact, I find the TV "personalities" rather annoying. However, when I can get a noble metal, certified at a high grade by NGC, get interest-free payments on it, AND get it at significantly less than melt value? I'll overlook the personality any day of the week!
  16. BULLY
    And the Mint really DOES have some NOT SO BRIGHT people working the phones!
    Now, I had a bad experience recently buying some supplies from a "mint named" place, and the phone reps clearly had never collected coins before, nor used any of the supplies, and even told me so.
    Today though, after reading some posts here on the boards about the US Mint being unable to fulfill orders for several weeks due to "severe weather" in the area of their warehouse, I visited their web site to see for myself, and to check on my orders to see if any had "made it out." Remember, I'm that storm cloud guy after all.
    At the same time, I saw what is auspiciously being hailed as a new product:
    "American Buffalo 2008 Celebration Coin (BA3)"
    This is where things go awry.
    Even though I am about to tell you what is missing, check it out for yourself.
    After reading and re-reading the Mint's description of this rather expensive numismatic item, I was left with a couple of questions:
    1. Is this a PROOF coin or a Mint State/Uncirculated coin?
    2. What is the Mint Mark of this coin? Where is it produced?
    Normally, that is mentioned, I mean, is the Mint NEW at this thing, this "selling coins" thing?
    So, I figure I will call and ask. I call today, 1-800-USA-MINT, it sounds so reassuring, just the letters to reach them, doesn't it?
    They even have a prompt that if you're calling about the American Buffalo Celebration Coin, press whatever - a special prompt, clearly, they are aware of this coin, or are they?
    I speak to a representative, who shall remain nameless to protect the not-so-innocent. I ask JUST my first question:
    Q: "I read the web site description very thoroughly, but it didn't specify, is this a Proof coin or a Mint State coin?"
    A: "Neither. It's a BULLION coin."
    Me: "I realize that the Gold Buffalo is a BULLION coin, it has been since it was introduced in 2006, but the question is whether this version being offered is the PROOF version, or a MINT STATE/UNCIRCULATED version." "A bullion coin," I said, "can be either proof or mint state."
    Representative: "Well, this one is neither. It says so right on this paper. The paper says it is a BULLION coin."
    Me: [in very a calm voice] "You don't know very much about coins, do you? Because the two are not mutually exclusive."
    NOTE: I said this in a very calm voice because once, recently, when a representative at the US Mint Product Ordering Service recently refused to transfer me to a supervisor for a task that he could not complete, he told me "Oh, so you're going to be difficult about this." I replied "No, it seems YOU are going to be difficult about this." At which point he SCREAMED "QUALITY CONTROL: CUSTOMER IS ABUSIVE! TERMINATING CALL! At which point he hung up on me.
    So, I took a cue from that Mint representative with THIS representative today who doesn't realize that coins are, typically, produced either as PROOF coins, or MINT STATE coins and this is what happened:
    Representative: "Sir, you can't talk to me like that, the paper says..and you don't know what you're talking about..."
    But before she could get it all out, I spoke OVER HER and said
    Me: QUALITY CONTROL! REPRESENTATIVE IS INCOMPETENT AND ABUSIVE. I AM FORCED TO TERMINATE THIS CALL.
    I am just dumbfounded at their complete stupidity! I mean, first of all, put it on the web site! Seriously, it's not their first time at the rodeo! Secondly, give the reps the right information! And if you did, fire the ones who are too stupid to pass basic reading comprehension classes and absorb the information!
    I called back in about ten minutes, talked to someone else, and posed the same question. I got a very simple and straightforward answer, without a hassle:
    1. It's a proof coin.
    2. It just won't have a mint mark (which of course is atypical of some of the proof issues).
    3. I THINK (but don't quote me on this because I was still irritated), that she said that despite the lack of mint mark, that it was being minted at West Point.
    I told this representative about my previous call, and she was very apologetic, took my name, and took the previous representative's name (I ALWAYS get names). I've worked in insurance for 17 years, taking names is second nature!
    She also indicated that they've gotten a number of inquires because of the lack of info on the web site - fancy that. All this from a woman whose first language was clearly not English. I'd guess her to have been Eastern European, but just a hunch.
    Probably the easiest call she had all day too. Despite my username here, I am not really a BULLY, it's just a play on words, I am actually quite mild-mannered. I just don't have a lot of patience for incompetence in customer service.

    ***********You may read the description from the Mint yourself (below) and see if you have any question about the coin, especially considering its price tag********************
    http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&mpe_id=10101&jspStoreDir=ConsumerDirect&productId=14399&intv_id=10551&evtype=CpgnClick&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&ddkey=ClickInfo
    The United States Mint is introducing a new initiative titled the United States Mint Celebration Series, and will be offering various numismatic coin products that are packaged and positioned to celebrate special gift-giving occasions and celebratory events. The United States Mint?s Celebration Series is an outreach initiative to non-traditional coin collectors and will be available to all collectors and non collectors alike.
    The American Buffalo 2008 Celebration Coin is the first product to be introduced in the series and is being launched in time for the 2008 Lunar New Year ? a traditionally important gift-giving time of year for Asian-Americans.
    This coin is an American Buffalo One Ounce Gold Bullion Coin and contains one ounce of 24-karat, .9999 fine gold. Each coin is packaged in its traditional protective covering and placed in a bright red, plush-lined gift box with a custom-designed foil-stamped outer sleeve.
    The American Buffalo Gold Bullion Coin?s obverse and reverse designs feature images originally prepared by noted American sculptor James Earle Fraser, a student of Augustus Saint-Gaudens, for the redesign of America?s 5-cent coin (nickel). A custom-designed Certificate of Authenticity features the signature and chop mark of the Director of the United States Mint. The weight and content of the American Buffalo 2008 Celebration Coin is backed by the United States Government.
    To ensure that all members of the public have fair and equal access to United States Mint products, any order placed prior to the official on-sale date and time (February 5, 2008, 12:00 Noon ET) shall not be deemed accepted by the United States Mint and will not be honored.
    Product Limit: No set product limit.
    The American Buffalo 2008 Celebration Coin is expected to begin shipping in late February. If paying by credit card, please be sure your credit card information remain

  17. BULLY
    I feel like that guy with the raincloud who follows him around...
    1st, the Mint sent my Platinum Eagle set a week earlier than they were supposed to, so I opened it innocently without even thinking about it - UGH! After all, it wasn't even supposed to be shipped until New Years' Eve, so why should I think twice about opening a package on 12/24? I returned it to the Mint, and was lucky enough to get a replacement set.
    I promptly submitted it, along with other coins (in the same box anyway) to NGC and anxiously await, though they don't seem to be moving. Rather than celebrating your victories as I read about the fortunate ones among you who get PF70 grades, I feel cheated that mine aren't graded yet, and blame myself for opening that darn package that dreary Christmas Eve. Further, I wonder if mine will "make the grade" and I wait....
    Then, there's the matter of our US Mint "Fulfillment Center" being offline due to the recent tornadoes. I certainly don't begrudge anyone a natural disaster. In fact, it's tragic. Yet I think about all the coin that could have been buried in rubble, or blown a way in a wind-funnel. Good Gravy Marie, not my Bald Eagles!
    That's right, my Bald Eagles. Remember when our BRILLIANT Mint decided to change service providers the same day they launched an immensely popular new commemorative? Well, I was one of the people who was at my phone for hours, literally, trying repeatedly until I finally got past the "We're too busy to take your call now, try again later" to even get the "PLEASE HOLD." That's right, "Please hold" was a THRILL!
    I waited, and even when a "live" rep came to the phone, she put me on hold, not once, not twice, but no fewer than six times to place my order. But I waited. And now I still don't have my order. Meanwhile I am thinking of tornado struck regions? No. I am jealous of those members who have posted stories of getting their coins, or having their coins en-route somewhere with FedEx.
    But wait, there's more!
    The 2008 State Quarter Proof Sets! Members are getting those too, and are already talking about their NGC submissions. Did you place orders for them? I've been on subscriptions for these items since the Mint started OFFERING subscription services for any of their items. But have I received mine? Of course not. I'm the guy with the rain cloud that follows him.
    So again I wait, I better get an umbrella.
    P.S. On an entirely different topic, has anyone else used the CONTACT form to email NGC in the last day or two? I have and I've had problems with it. Not major, but it seems to have a quirk, and I wonder if it's just me. NGC added a box at the bottom of the form where you enter the characters above the box "for verification." For some reason, every time I enter the characters, the form does not recognize it, and I get a new set of characters, and I must re-enter those, and the form gladly takes the second set.
    Now, I make typos with the best of them, so if it happened once, I'd believe it. If it happened twice - maybe. EACH AND EVERY TIME? Something is amiss. Even on the form where I was emailing them to tell them that this was happening to me, no matter HOW CAREFUL I WAS (using call capital letters in case it was "case sensitive" and so forth) -- it happened yet again!
    Just me?
    I am that guy with the rain cloud after all. This time though, I think there is enough rain to go around. I hope.
  18. BULLY
    World coins seem to be quicker than quick! For those of you interested in Australian coins, or bullion collectors, or State Quarter collectors, I'd like to share my images of these with you.
    With my last batch of coins, I submitted a number of invoices, at various tiers, including Modern, Modern Special, and World Modern.
    The World Modern, from receipt to getting images emailed to me, is about a week! Wowza!
    Now, technically, the status isn't finalized, and the coins don't appear to be shipped, but since the images are emailed to me, I know the grades of the coins, so that's exciting!
    As I mentioned, a few of the coins on this World Coin submission might be of interest to a variety of collectors:
    1. If you collect Australian coins
    2. If you collect bullion coins (bullion silver)
    3. If you collect State Quarters
    Why all three? Hmmmm. I had never seen these before, but they are Australian Kookaburra coins with State Quarter "privy" marks, actual images of U.S. State Quarters on the ONE OUNCE Silver Bullion coins! I managed to get a raw set of the 1999 coins.
    The images will be too large to load here in the journal, but I am going to load them over on the Chat Boards. See what you think. I thought they were a neat "crossover" sort of collectible.
    UPDATE: I posted some photos in the
    The Collectors Society ? Forums ? NGC - NCS - PMG ? World and Ancient Coins / Ask a World Coin Expert
    Posted in the thread: Post your most recent acquisition.
    Since the coins have a U.S. "flair" with the State Quarter angle, I may post them in the U.S. forum over there, just for increased visibility.
  19. BULLY

    Rough grading

    By BULLY,

    Are they or aren't they? Tough that is.
    I read Johnson1's entry about his 2008 Silver Eagles and how he believes they may be under-graded, at 69 instead of 70.
    Here's the interesting part:
    There was a long string of postings in the Message Boards recently about how PCGS coins were "more valuable" than NGC coins because there were those who believed (I am not among them), that NGC just "hands out" 70 graded coins too readily, and that PCGS is the "tougher grader" and therefore that a PCGS 70 is worth more than an NGC 70.
    Here we have an opposite perspective, a collector who believes his coins should have been graded as a 70 but that NGC was too tough on the coins and only graded them as a 69.
    I guess my point is: Isn't it funny how disparate opinions can be?
    Something else for consideration: The 2008 Silver American Eagle was Rehubbed for the New year. Some people BELIEVE that the rehubbed changes are making for weaker strikes on the coins, and are resulting in fewer higher grade coins. Whether this is true I imagine remains to be seen, until a year or more passes and census reports continue to be filled with the grades of the 2008 coins. You may read about the rehubbed features here:
    http://www.collectors-society.com/news/ViewArticle.aspx?IDArticle=955
    The reality is, and even the two top tier grading services (NGC and PCGS) will tell you this, is that grading can vary among professional coin graders who examine coins, by up to a couple grades even. However, this is why they have several graders involved in the process to ensure the best consistency possible, and to maintain a good quality control. It is what sets NGC and PCGS apart from other services.
    Are the grading services what we believe they are? NGC uses a minimum of three graders to review every coin, to ensure consistency. You may read about that process here:
    http://www.ngccoin.com/coingrading/grading2.asp
    IMHO, I think at least in the case of NGC, the answer is yes, grading services are what we hope they are. I believe the same is true for PCGS. For other TPGs, I have significantly less confidence. ANACS and ICG are next in line, but a distant "next tier," and after that, other services are off the radar in my eyes.
  20. BULLY
    Art B made his posting a little while ago about the grades he got for his 2008 Proof Silver Eagles.
    He also made a couple comments that got me thinking.
    He first said of the 30 he had, he only submitted 24. Personally, with the potential for "Early Releases" designation, why not send the other six as well? Were they that bad? I ask because with my 2007 Proof Silver Eagles for instance, I submitted all that I had gotten, 15 I believe to start with, and as I recall, 12 or 13 of them came back as PF70UC, the others as PF69UC -- nothing lower. Of course I am hoping for the same with my 2008 submission.
    Is the Early Release designation not more appealing to some collectors than a raw coin that MIGHT come back as a 68? Is the 68 (or less) even common in the PROOF version of the Silver Eagles?
    That said, that really wasn't the comment that really caught my attention. Art said he was REALLY hoping for a 69*.
    So here's my question:
    Would a PF69* (let's say Cameo) be MORE desirable than a PF70 Ultra Cameo? If so, why?
    I mean I know that * designations show that "extra eye appeal" that are not necessarily just short of the next grade, but might be just short of Ultra Cameo for instance. They don't have separate prices in the price guides, but they do seem to command premium in auctions on eBay from what I've seen anyway. However, compared to a 70 grade coin, which would you pick? Speaking for myself, I'd opt for (and hope for) the PF70 Ultra Cameo.
    Just curious to hear from Art about his thinking, and to hear from others about their take on it. I see collectors really bid up those star* coin on eBay such that I often bow out of the bidding very early.
  21. BULLY

    Re: "Finally"

    By BULLY,

    The Mint's turnaround time...
    Don't you find it remarkable that while you waited from a November order until February to get 2007 coins, the Mint was busily pumping out 2008 coins?
    I mean, call me crazy, but shouldn't it be FIFO? First in, First out? Are we TOO logical to think in such rational means? That old orders should be processed before new ones? A radical notion I know, but what do we know about customer service, after all, the Mint transfers their role for the administration to a company (Accenture) with primarily off-shore locations, with even one or two in North America. The Mint takes DOWN their web site on the SAME DAY they launch a tremendously popular new, limited edition, commemorative coin, and at the same time does NOT add additional phone staff.
    What do we know? They have ALL the brilliant ideas.
  22. BULLY

    I'm with Bruce

    By BULLY,

    And busily keeping my small town post office in business!
    I have three or four invoices at NGC which have stayed in "Received" status for about a week, Modern, Modern Special and World Modern.
    But, instead of letting NGC deal with those, what do I do? I went to the post office in the sleet today, early, before it got too slippery, and submitted FIVE MORE invoices. A couple Modern Special, including my REPLACEMENT 10th Anniversary Platinum Eagles from the Mint, a Modern or two, and yet another World Modern -- how I am coming up with these World coins all of a sudden is a mystery even to me.
    I had a couple other packages to mail, so of course my Post Mistress is THRILLED because she needs the activity to help make her numbers, and Registered Mail is especially helpful for her figures apparently.
    I live in a very small town you see, actually in a village within a town, and my rural post office is a hole in the wall sort of place, a place that even shuts down for two hours during the day, from 1-3pm. How quaint, huh? Rarely more than one employee on at any given time, and that's usually the friendly Post Mistress, who was so concerned about me venturing out on the ice in my little car, she had me call her when I got home so she knew I made it safely (she knows I live on the side of the mountain). How sweet, huh?
    So, I do my part to add to NGC's workload, or backlog, whatever the case may be, and to keep my village post office in business as long as possible, as more and more USPS retail locations across the country are closed - I sure don't want that to happen here.
    Am I a grading junkie? It gets addictive to want to get your coins slabbed, doesn't it? I mean to clean out a safe deposit box, and take coin after coin out of the OGP and add it to the submission form to NGC, tedious, time consuming, but SO EXCITING! What will I get?
    ALL THOSE EMPTY OGP boxes though, what is one to do? I've seen people sell some on eBay, cheaply, and they actually sell. Is that odd? Should I keep them with the COA to go with the slabbed coins? Hmmm. If I sold a slabbed coin on eBay, would selling it with the OGP and COA be "value added" and make it more desirable? I mean it is already certified, but having the original paperwork is sort of like having the maintenance records on a used car or on a house you bought.
    I wonder...
  23. BULLY

    To "Disheartened"

    By BULLY,

    Is it that they were bodybagged, or is that they just didn't cross at an equivalent grade?
    My initial reaction to the earlier posting was that if your coins were bodybagged, that something must have been wrong with them, and that you at least did have the coins to make your set, small consolation that it was, and if they were cleaned, damaged, or what-have-you, could have NCS (NGC's sister "Conservation" company) conserve and encapsulate them for you.
    In reading your most recent entry, it almost sounds like you may have put a limitation on your grading with NGC, and that if the coins did not meet a minimum grade, that they should be returned to you, and that's exactly what happened.
    If that's the case, I just have to wonder if, given the chance, exactly how NGC would grade the coins, without a minimum grade limit. Would it be an MS65 if you didn't require MS68 or higher for instance? Just an example.
    I could be way off base, they could have been bodybags for "cause" such as whizzed coins, cleaned coins, or other evil things, but as yet I am unclear. It sounds like you may be unclear too, but the vagueness of the reason is why it sounds like maybe they just didn't cross at the grade you hoped and thus weren't encapsulated if you instructed NGC not to do so. When coins are damaged for some reason, NGC is usually pretty clear on the wrappers as to the nature of the "problem coin."
  24. BULLY

    Aussie Lunars - To VUMC409

    By BULLY,

    You can blame me for that -- at least partially.
    As you clearly learned, the Australians have started a SECOND Lunar Coin Series, starting over with the Year of the Mouse. I recently obtained my coin, and while I entered it in my personal database for insurance purposes, I wasn't able to enter it into my Registry Set.
    Thus, over the weekend, I contacted NGC about it. Since they were grading the coins, after all, I wondered when they might add the coins to the set. It was either that, or I tried adding the mouse to the Year of the Rat --I forget how it played, I was sleep deprived this weekend. Whichever it was, come Monday: Voila! NGC added the slot, and I added my coin (even though I am down at set number 11 since I only have one or two 70s, the rest 69s), and I see that since I did, the top place holders have since added their Mouse coins as well, maintaining their 100% status (as if they had anything to worry about from me with all their MS70 coins!).
  25. BULLY
    This is for shipping as well as for your collections at home, or even in safe deposit boxes.
    You can check, but most homeowner insurance policies won't insure your coin collections, or will severely limit coverage on a coin collection to a couple of hundred dollars. (This seems like it's unrelated, but trust me, I'll get there.)
    Further, homeowners insurance companies MAY be willing to "schedule" your coin collection, similar to valuable jewelry items, but if you check, you may find the cost to be exorbitant, and the reason your insurance agent will probably tell you is that the company simply doesn't know anything about coins. They will also likely require a FULL INVENTORY of every coin to be scheduled - UP FRONT.
    Next, I actually didn't realize that you were shipping from outside the U.S. For those shipping within the U.S., the safest option for shipping coins is Registered Mail (not to be confused with Insured or Certified Mail). Registered Mail is essentially outside the normal mail stream and is lock-boxed every step of the way. It is extremely secure, and "a" method of choice for NGC as well.
    I believe that I have heard that UPS and FedEx have issues with insuring coins, and have HEARD) that the "fine print" of regular postal insurance (U.S.) has exclusions as well. I can't swear to that. Again though, Registered Mail is extremely secure.
    However, this is where alternative insurance comes in. Since personal collections become valuable quickly, particularly those which may contain bullion items, and easily grow to thousands, tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars, an insurance policy for a coin collection is almost ESSENTIAL, but so many collectors go without one, just as so many people living in flood zones have no flood insurance, and people in hurricane prone areas have no wind damage coverage, and so forth. The time to buy a burglar alarm is NOT the day or week AFTER you are robbed, but before -- the same goes for an insurance policy for your coin collection.
    Now, I finally start to get to the coin and respond to JayH749. I can be long-winded that way, so I beg your indulgence.
    If you are a member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), they have arranged for their members a deal with the Hugh Wood Agency in New York to be able to purchase a coin collection policy underwritten by AXA, a reputable and solid insurer.
    They have various levels of coverage, but among them are policies that will cover your coins EVEN WHILE SHIPPING THEM (as long as using certain insured or trackable carriers (Such as Registered Mail) -- see their policy terms and conditions) anywhere within NORTH AMERICA. I didn't pay as close attention to other carriers since I use Registered Mail, but UPS or FedEx MAY be options, so if you aren't a member of the ANA, you may want to join, or check with the agency about the policy first, and if they have terms which meet your needs, THEN join, because ANA membership IS a requirement of the policy.
    Further, they have less expensive policies for collectors who keep their coins in safe deposit boxes, and limit coverage, for instance, to travel between your home and your safe deposit box location. You may ask "But if it's in a safe deposit box, why do I need insurance?" For so many reasons, of which just a few are:
    1. The contents of a safe deposit box are not insured by a bank, nor by any federal or government agency.
    2. While thefts from safe deposit boxes are rare, they do occur.
    3. Where is your safe deposit box? Is it in a dry location such as Fairbanks, or in a damp location such as Miami? Is it in a basement or above ground location in your financial institution? The question becomes are the contents subject to environmental damage. While this sort of "limited" damage may not be covered by an insurance policy, they are important questions to ask and consider when selecting a safe deposit box for coin storage. IS the safe deposit box room climate controlled? Some banks actually HUMIDIFY the rooms because they consider it MORE likely that people are storing DOCUMENTS (or CASH) in boxes, and they work to preserve that. The humidity can DESTROY coins. These are all important questions to ask your bank, and front line tellers may not know. Silica gel packs (to absorb moisture in your box) are also something to consider.
    4. REAL environmental damage. What if your safe deposit box was in a bank that was in New Orleans, Mississippi, or elsewhere along the Gulf Coast in the aftermath of hurricanes Katrina and Rita, and was LITERALLY UNDERWATER for days, weeks, or longer? How would your precious or even priceless collection of coins fare then? What about in a bank in Southern California during their recent wildfires, or perhaps that got buried in a mudslide? Again, an insurance policy of your own would be essential!
    These may sound like extreme examples, but they are hardly out of the realm of possibility. These things happened to hundreds of thousands if not millions of people in several states -- whether they lost coins, stamps, stock certificates, or precious documents: ALL was destroyed.
    Lastly, the insurance policy that the ANA arranges for through the Hugh Wood Agency and underwritten by AXA specializes in coins and thus does not REQUIRE you to schedule every item in your collection. However, in the event of a loss, clearly, an inventory would be required. They do, however, require you to list any items that are INDIVIDUALLY worth in excess of $10,000 I believe. Hardly an unreasonable request.
    For other inventory purposes, some people make their lists on paper, some people use an Excel Spreadsheet, some people circle coins in the Red Book, some people take pictures or video (in combination with lists). I've seen special software that includes downloadable values that can be updated pediodically, though I don't have personal experience with it, and I believe it may be limited to certain kinds of coins (such as U.S.). Personally, I made a Microsoft Access database, which is extractable to Excel, so I have a friendly data-entry method with drop-down boxes for common fields, and then searchable and sortable and reportable outcomes afterward.
    Probably more than you bargained for when you made your posting, but I at least HOPE many can benefit from some of this information.
    And before I forget, the ANA can be found at www.money.org and the link to insurance information I believe is under BENEFITS.